Andrew Wilson! DUMPED Because She Did OF?! Men Making $50,000 Should NOT Date?! | Dating Talk #136

Date: 2024-02-19

Duration: 6h 59m

Guests

Brian Atlas

IIsabella (DT136)>

HHolly (DT136)>

SSophia (DT136)>

LLizzy (DT136)>

AAndrew Wilson >

UUnnamed (Algerian-Canadian, DT136)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS/Donations(audience)

SPEAKER_01Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_02Sophia(guest)

SPEAKER_03Isabella(guest)

SPEAKER_04Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)(guest)

SPEAKER_05Mesa(guest)

SPEAKER_06Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_07Sophia/Lizzy (mixed)(guest)

SPEAKER_08Rose(guest)

SPEAKER_09Dez(guest)

SPEAKER_12Holly(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteBrian declares war on talking in saunas

“if I was married to a woman for 10 years and we get into the SAA and she starts talking to me in the public SAA divorce”

QuoteLizzy discloses body count of 100+

“I unfortunately have a very high body count and a lot of that happened in my 20s because I slept with a lot of gorgeous men admittedly um but they didn't want to wife me or girlfriend me”

QuoteLizzy at 35, unmarried and surprised

“I think that now at 35 and unmarried I I did not see that coming”

QuoteLizzy confirms body count 'over 100'

“in the notes over 100 yeah so you know I I I have yeah I'll just say over 100”

QuoteHolly: 'my money is my money and his money is our money'

“my money is my money and his money is our money”

QuoteHolly says she has no exes (disassociates from past relationships)

“I don't have exes um and I would say unavailable”

QuoteSophia describes polyamorous relationship

“it was with two hetero guys um and one girl... we were all still friends we care about each other a lot”

QuoteAndrew Wilson states women have very low functional intelligence

“I think they have very low functional intelligence generally it's just me though”

QuoteDez's current sugar daddy tipped $1200

“the other night was like 1 12200 which was cool”

QuoteDez describes feeder sugar daddy arrangement

“he would give me money but have me send him videos of me like eating and like looking like overweight and stuff cuz he got off on that”

QuoteDez says 'all gas no brakes' about gasoline incident

“everybody else needs gas everybody else needs gas all gas no breaks”

QuoteDez describes throwing gasoline on ex-boyfriend's car

“I saw another girl in the back of his car and I got mad and I this gas tank was in my way and it spilled on me and I got pissed and I just started throwing the gas all over his car and the people in it”

Topics Discussed

Introductions

Guests introduce themselves: name, age, location, occupation. Then go around on relationship status.

Sauna Etiquette Tangent

Brian goes on an extended rant about talking in public saunas being rude. Isabella mentions she met her boyfriend in a gym sauna. Chat votes: talking in sauna is rude.

Sean Evans / Melissa Stratton Breakup Reaction

Panel reacts to Hot Ones host Sean Evans breaking up with porn star Melissa Stratton on Valentine's Day. Discussion of whether he was wrong, Adam 22's Twitter trolling, and whether men should date sex workers.

Men Making $50,000 Should Not Date (Video Reaction)

Panel reacts to viral video of a woman saying men making $50k/year should not date. Discussion of income thresholds for dating, cost of living in California, what women contribute, 50/50 in relationships. Lizzy defends blue-collar men.

Princess/Queen Treatment & Men Providing

Discussion of what 'princess treatment' means, Holly's expectation of $5-10k/month in lifestyle spending, women dating up vs. men committing, women's inability to 'go back' after dating high-value men.

Cheating, High-Value Men, and Open Relationships

Whether high-value men are allowed to cheat. SPEAKER_07 (Lizzy) shares experience of sleeping with attractive men who wouldn't commit. Discussion of men's vs. women's attachment during sex.

Lizzy's Past Choices and Body Count Disclosure

Lizzy (35) discloses body count of 100+, discusses poor choices in youth including cheating at 19 and 21, change of heart at 28, and current regret at being 35 and unmarried.

50/50 in Relationships

Panel discussion on whether relationships should be 50/50 financially. Isabella describes her 75/25 dynamic with new boyfriend. Most women prefer men to pay more.

5050 Finance Debate & Dating Cost Context

Extended discussion on 50/50 vs. traditional financial roles; California cost of living context.

Body Count Discussion

Extended debate on whether body count matters, men's right to care about it, double standards, and whether high body count women are promiscuous by choice. Body count round: Isabella declined, Dez 15-20, Holly declined, 'zero waiting for marriage' (unidentified).

Same-Sex Activity Discussion

Panel unanimously says they would not date a man who has been in a same-sex relationship. Andrew Wilson raises the double standard on women's same-sex activity.

Sophia's Divisive Show Critique

Sophia (SPEAKER_02) challenges Brian on the show being divisive and adversarial. Brian and Andrew Wilson defend the debate format. Discussion of open-mindedness and consistency.

Sophia's Polyamory Story

Sophia shares her brief polyamorous relationship (2 men, 1 other woman). Concluded monogamy works better for her.

Sophia's Plane to France Story

Sophia met a stranger on a plane to France; they talked the whole flight, kissed, and explored Paris together for a romantic day.

Age Gap Relationships

Discussion of what age gaps are appropriate. Holly (22) is dating a man ~14 years older (~36). Panel debates predatory vs. normal age gaps. Holly says she couldn't date someone her own age.

Makeup as Misrepresentation Debate

Brian's position that makeup is a lie; debate on whether it misrepresents women similarly to men lying about height. Isabella discusses how severe acne affected her views.

Dez: Sugar Daddy with Feeder/Weight Fetish

Dez describes a sugar daddy who paid her to gain weight and send eating videos; also paid for heel-choke sessions. She received ~$2k/month + bonuses for weight milestones.

Holly's Twitter Rants

Brian pulls up Holly's Twitter: 'all men are liars,' birthday promises not kept, Valentine's Day men not celebrating rant. Holly explains context for each.

Dez: OnlyFans, Stripping, and Dating Sex Workers

Extended discussion of Dez's OnlyFans content and stripping career. Whether men are insecure or principled for not dating sex workers. Dez's feeder sugar daddy story. Stripper tales (nipple-rubbing VIP).

Dez: Toxic Relationship and Gas-Throwing Incident

Dez describes throwing gasoline on her ex-boyfriend's car after seeing another girl in it. Nearly lit the car on fire. Attributes incident to being bipolar and intoxicated.

Transcript

Page 6 of 8

Mesa38 he'd be a predator no no no no I'm talking about like a 50-year-old man and like a 19-year-old what about but of course in your

Mesasituation it's fine he got this covered right you got this covered just other women what about you could you date a 50-year-old you know what I don't want to air my business out here but like no

Hollywait she had you have dated a 50 no no no no people like people have been interested in me that are that age but like it's just would you take a trip to the Bahamas from them no no

Brian Atlasno okay uh let's move on let's move on I'm trying to see where I am here in my notes uh let's see where did jeez where

Brian Atlasuh I think we left we finished up with our notes here from Isabella oh wait hold on oh you Isabella you wanted to talk a bit about dating apps you're not a fan of dating apps which ones were you

Isabellaon um I have used not for very long but I have been on Tinder Bumble and hinge just to see what was up like yeah and you said

Isabellaanyone can lie on there and it seems like a safety issue if you don't have any mutuals yeah I agree I think it's better to meet people naturally like in an organic setting you are right people can really lie on there

Brian Atlasespecially women who use filters makeup and Photoshop almost exclusively on your filters you have a very good point there Isabella that's why I'm not personally a big fan of um dating apps is the

Isabellamisrepresentation when it comes to one's physical appearance yeah it's not just women either it's men and it's also not just physical appearances it it can also be like their whole personality and

Brian Atlastheir life story what's up Nick oh okay um so men men are lying wholesale on The

Brian AtlasDating items well men and women like here going around the table do you guys think it's wrong for men for example to uh lie about their uh height on the dating app not that I think it's wrong but it's

Isabellalike unnecessary cuz you're going to find out how tall they are anyway so it's like what's the point what's the point of wearing makeup well I mean at least for me like right now I just curled my eyelashes I have some

Brian Atlasconcealer on oh I mean I you've been invited on a recorded podcast so I don't object to women wearing makeup for this podcast but like in the sort of broader social sense

Brian Atlasit's seems to me that uh there's a lot of filter usage makeup usage Photoshop usage uh on dating well I was going to answer you CU like you're asking like

Brian Atlaswhy do women wear makeup not not really but the question was like do would you have an issue with men lying about their height on a dating app not that like I think it's kind of weird like why would

Brian Atlasyou lie cuz I'm going to see how tall you are anyway so it's like that's like stupid it's a lie right it's a misrepresentation it's not the actual truth yeah yeah so do you think makeup is a lie um it's not the truth of what

Isabellayou actually look like would you agree with that yeah but you can take off like you can't change your height how you look with makeup what's that it's how you

Roselook with makeup it's not explicitly liying how about this let's say a guy he wore uh lifts in his shoes he can take

Brian Atlasthem off you'll see eventually his actual height and let's say you didn't meet him on a dating app but you met him in person and he was wearing 3-in lifts would

Brian Atlasthat not be really fair to the woman who maybe has a preference for dating taller men of course yeah so then so too should wearing makeup is that not fair to men

Brian Atlasbut you can see the makeup on my face I can't see the lift in your you can maybe look at the the heels of his shoes you know you you should know that men maybe wear lifts what's that well like men can

Brian Atlaschoose to swipe left on women who look like they're wearing a lot of makeup in their photos on their dating profile okay sure I would also argue that some men who are perhaps on the younger side or a bit naive might actually believe

Brian Atlasthat that face filter that women are using is actually like how they might actually look yeah but what is the depending depending on the degree some face filters it's very obvious but others

Isabellamaybe not yeah but usually face filters they might just like Smooth your skin a bit but you inherently look like pretty much the same I mean filters

Mesacan substantially change your appearance what type of I didn't believe that myself until until I went on this show

Mesaand I'd watch it later and I would literally see all the women in camera and I'd go none of those chicks looked anything like that in person there's

Mesasomething wrong with my Optical camera in my head or like you girls know how to look good on camera because that that's just me is there a filter on this show

Roseno no no just maybe it's the lighting I don't know um no we don't know filters though I think it's unwise to use filters uh at all but especially on a dating app I why would

Brian Atlasyou want to do that Mis represent or maybe men should start lying about their jobs but they how much money they make that's wrong that's wrong yeah we're saying that that's not good I have a can

HollyI tell a quick lying dating app experience it's very quick yeah good so um how old I I was probably like 18 or 19 and um I had match with this guy guy on a dating app and um he appeared to be

Hollyin his early 30s and I wasn't really bothered by that and he took me out to a very nice restaurant ha haa Kiki having a great time actually and he gets really

Hollydrunk he's like four drinks in and he said I have a funny joke for you and I was like what's the joke and he was like I'm actually like not 30 I was like wait

Hollyhow old are you he's like I'm 42 and he started laughing and I was like that's a danger that's that's dangerous like why would you lie about that did you finish

Hollythe date well yeah we were at catch I was going to eat my food but I never saw again yeah you got to finish the date right I guess I got a question for the

Brian Atlasgirls so if I could wave a magical wand that just totally eliminated makeup cosmetics so it just leveled the playing

Brian Atlasfield for all women so there just no women wore makeup so conce ably you would feel less inclined to have to compete by also wearing makeup would you be in favor of it what about like people

Brian Atlaswho already have plastic surgery though cuz that's a cheat yes we take magic wand magic wand here's my pen okay what's the spell from Harry

Brian AtlasPotter Jay Butler the creature in blue has inflated sense of creature in blue the toilet paper I wipe my ARs with ends up looking better than you wow whoa J Butler POA clre for your herpes and come

Brian Atlaswhat what had J Butler all of a sudden in 2024 has just decided to um go just what what what Scorch tur what did I do

Brian Atlasto you you why are you so mad who hurt you Jay Butler like why who hurt you okay if I could wave a magic wand and

Dezjust all makeup gone would you would you guys go for it why not yeah yeah like totally are you going to get rid of my

Isabellaacne no you don't want to what's that are you GNA get rid of my acne your acne remains magic wand then no but all all the other women with acne can't they don't get to wear makeup either there

Isabellaalso women who don't have acne that what then it like it still it doesn't really even in the playing field it be more yeah exactly it'd be more even for everyone to have the option to wear

Isabellamakeup rather than no one because there's people who struggle with like scars or like Burns acne different things and then you know they're looking at these people with clear complexions and it could just be their genetics whatever they're just genetically blessed and then it just feels like

Brian Atlasyou're still going to compare yourself to them whether you have makeup does makeup make acne worse no really it doesn't clog your pores and depends I can make out with a girl with acne or

Brian Atlassorry excuse me I can make out sorry I can make out with a girl who's wearing makeup and her makeup will give me acne well what kind of makeup is she want brand

Isabellaoh the brand matters you're introducing artificial crap paint on your face I don't care what the brands is like skin care and makeup put together same with Clinique and like I'm someone like I

Isabellastruggled with like terrible terrible acne the makeup did the makeup make better I didn't wear makeup before okay so let's just say that you can have all the skin care that you need absent makeup as well yeah if if my skin was

Mesaperfect I'm not saying your Skin's perfect so the the point the point of hypotheticals to just say this saying you're competing either way so if we absent the makeup from all women right you're still competing with other women

Isabellaand if you have makeup you're still competing with other women but to me it's not about competing with other women like as someone who struggled with severe acne and I had to go on Accutane and all this medications products thousands of dollars put into it like I

Isabellareally did it for myself cuz like it got so bad to where when I would look in the mirror I'd want to cry like I didn't want to go your makeup was not a requisite for treating a I and I wouldn't even put makeup on it because putting makeup on it made it look worse

Isabellacuz then it just looks like a bunch of bumps does so what does it have to do with makeup then well yeah so what I'm saying is that it still like I could at least get rid of the

Isabellaredness and I could feel a little makeup yeah I could feel like a little bit better and not like a completely terrible like ugly monster looking individual when I look in the mirror

Mesahe's just saying that all other women who have that same problem would be in the same exact boat right they also would not be able to cover up whatever deficiencies they perceived that they had uh versus would be able to so you're

Mesastill you're not in any worse position you're just not able to put yourself in the best position I I guess so magic wand magic wand all makeup

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)disappears did we did everybody get to answer I want to I didn't I didn't fully understand the question if I could if just makeup was B all makeup disappeared

Brian Atlasyou couldn't wear makeup anymore would you choose that reality or the current reality that we have to be honest I'd probably pick the current reality

Sophia/Lizzy (mixed)yeah I think I I I think I I'm not sure but I think I would probably go with the magic wand oh I mean I would stick with this

Sophia/Lizzy (mixed)reality so people have the choice but dayto day I don't wear makeup so I it save time and money so it' be great yep good either way either way um no I don't

Isabellaagree I don't want the wand yeah well I think it's different if like if it's all just now taken away versus if it never existed in the first place have it never existed in the first place then like it would make no

Isabelladifference cuz no one would know but if it's just now taken away I mean I know your whole point is to get at like oh your looks and everything but this would

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)take away like millions of jobs too well I kind of agree if makeup filters all this stuff never existed I think women would be in a much better position

Isabellamental CU it would matter in the first place cuz no one would have known or used it in the first place anyways so there would be no basis for comparison

Brian Atlasyeah yeah exactly yeah but but you said there would be job loss right yeah if you made all makeup disappear it' be all

Brian Atlasthe people yeah it's a the Cosmetic industry has has a very interest in keeping women feeling insecure about their physical appearance so they can keep selling you crap to put on your

Brian Atlasface and sell you I don't know how much I'd like to go around the table on this maybe some of you spend less some of you spend more maybe we could even Google how much the average woman spends a year on makeup how much do you spend a year

Isabellaon Cosmetics I don't buy a lot of makeup okay like I mean I think it's well like you were saying it's it's not something that I like

Isabellaabsolutely need like I don't put on a full face every day I'm not one of those types of people but I I still enjoy like if I'm going to a nice event or a nice dinner like something where I want to look really put together and I put the

Isabellatime in to get a nice outfit put a nice outfit to my hair then I I want the face to match too you know I'm not going to just show up with like all my acne scars and when the rest of me is done up it's just not going to look as put together

Isabellanot saying there's anything wrong with going to an event with no makeup but for me personally I would like to have that option to look as put together as possible okay look at the end of the day these

Brian Atlascosmetic companies want you continue want you to continue to be self-conscious and insecure about your physical appearance

Brian Atlasand it's a billion dooll multi I mean I it's I think cosmetic use it's almost like approaching I don't know how much it is per year I think worldwide it's

Brian Atlaslike half a trillion dollars is spent by women on Cosmetics so of course these companies want to keep

Brian Atlasyou dependent on the paint as I'm going to call it but you're so hopelessly dependent this is going to get clipped you're so

Brian Atlashopelessly dependent on the system that you will fight to protect it okay just do I don't even know where I'm going

Hollywith this I don't know where I'm going with this I guess I just want you guys to admit that makeup is a lie I don't think it's a lie you're misrepresenting your physical appearance but I we don't

Hollyeven like well oh speaking of what if people like nowadays like get procedures done so you don't have to wear as much

Hollymakeup yeah like that's how the world Works days I'm still against that too you mean like T like eyebrow tattoos or you get like your facials once a month

Brian Atlasor you get fill Morpheus well then I mean I don't know about some of that stuff I mean are then are you getting into like more of a skin care it's a balance between like

Brian Atlasskincare and filler I think the difference is with with makeup it's within 30 minutes you can have like a veneer that's not like what you

Sophia/Lizzy (mixed)otherwise look like whereas if you're taking care of your skin you're eating you know eating well that's that's kind of different I age cut in here I do think makeup is a lie and because I do

Sophia/Lizzy (mixed)acting also and I took masks and makeup as a class and um I could make myself look like a man if I do different contouring I can make myself look like a clown I could do all kinds of stuff and

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)all that would be technically a lie and an illusion yeah but that's kind of different context I'm not waking up and going to school and clown makeup and trying to convince people I'm a clown I was trying to go to the extreme just to

Mesaprove my they're asking if you if you're in the Nuance here you're asking really about deception so just ask it a different way well I think the only way

Isabellait's a lie is if someone is wearing makeup not a lie but a deception no I I was going to say I think it's a lie if someone's wearing makeup and you say you're not wearing makeup that's obviously a lie like you're trying to

Isabellacome off as if you just look like this with nothing on which a lot of women really don't do that and I'm sure if like you were on a dating app and you ask them like oh I'd love to see your natural face like without makeup send me a selfie and they send you a picture of

Isabellathemselves they'd probably be insulted by that maybe but like a lot of women would be insulted by that yeah but if you really wanted to know and you really wanted to not be lied to or like well

Brian Atlasit's not it's not really anything that the woman is saying or doing here's what it comes down to physical attraction is is really an instantaneous thing

Brian Atlasso when you see a beautiful woman and perhaps her beauty is increased by some capacity through her use of makeup you

Brian Atlasare tricking men in a way like it's not like we don't look at a girl and we have like an intellectual thought process of like we

Brian Atlasdon't intellectualize ooh like her you know uh oh her eyelashes like a really make her eye pop like we instant you see her face you've instantly made an

Isabellaassessment on her physical attractiveness but if there's someone who likes to wear a lot of makeup very frequently then why would it matter anyways if most of the time you see them

Sophia/Lizzy (mixed)they're going to be wearing makeup well I think it matters for men because when they they're looking at genetics to say okay if we have a baby together what are they going to look like which also plays into plastic surgery because now you

Sophia/Lizzy (mixed)don't know like is my baby going to have those lips well no cuz they're not real or you know is it going to have these eyes well they look bigger because of makeup is that what men are thinking about when they're what are our children going to look like just moving into

Mesapreference again so it's like it's like this let's pretend for a second I don't know where this would ever happen nowhere right but we'll just pretend anyway there's some guy he's 25 years

Mesaold he's a Chic he's a prince right he's the most handsomest man in the whole wide world and he has a billion dollars in the bank and he puts out this criteria for women and he's like I only want a woman who has this hair color and

Mesalooks like this and has this eye color and that's it right and so let's say she puts in contact lenses and she Dy her hair and she puts on all kinds of makeup to fit that appearance and then presents herself and he's like you're perfect

Mesayou're exactly what I was looking for she's like Yay great that's what I've always wanted and then the next morning the makeup Wives come on he's like you don't can look anything like what it was that I was request did you deceive him

Hollythat's the question did you deceive him yes he set up expectation that's that's the whole point right I just feel like makeup shouldn't be used as a mask makeup should just be used to enhance

Hollywhat you naturally have so at the end of the day like I know I can be wearing a full face beat and I could take off my makeup at any time if I'm chilling with my boo and I'm cool you know I don't look a lot different than how I do

Sophiawithout makeup but to each his own yeah I mean do we you said you look at these videos later and you said we look much different than we're being betrayed there like do we look a ton different or do we look like well it's not every girl

IsabellaI'm just saying a lot of them do I was just curious generally yeah so do you I it looks like you guys both have like hair products in do you think that doing your hair with hair products just like

Isabelladoing your face with face products same like I just put a little maple syrup I put a little wait hold on sorry repeat that like do you think you're being deceitful because like your natural self your hair doesn't look like that or else

Mesayou wouldn't have to use product to make it look like that so uh well so I think that kind of the distinction is is that if I have my hair combed or I don't have my hair combed

Mesathere's not going to be a great intense distinction in what I really look like whereas I think for women there's a huge distinction in what they actually look like always no I didn't say always okay

Mesabut generally speaking I think there is there's a distinction especially if you see a woman who's dolled up and then later on you find out oh wait a second you know what I mean you really don't

Brian Atlaslook that much like that Nick can you Google makeup before after images tab well it's probably going to show the most extreme before and afters I think right but can we like maybe there's

Hollyextreme but like maybe some women are operating in the middle somewhere I think it's I think it you need to be more worried about plastic surgery than makeup I'm very much against plastic

Hollysurgery too cuz that's the highest level of although I will say that I think like makeup

Brian Atlasyou can trick a dude but like as a guy if you're not if you find plastic surgery unattractive I mean I don't know cuz

Hollysomeone could go got a fake nose a chin implant like do so many small tweaks and like Nick then you see their baby picture and it's somebody different yeah it is did you do makeup

Isabellabefore after Images Oh I went to the makeup folder no no no no Google makeup before after there're also a lot of straight men starting to wear makeup now too

Brian Atlasyeah and that you know what I would actually argue that the vast majority of women would find it f11 please Nick um

Brian Atlaswould find it unattractive for a guy to wear makeup they'd be like why are you a who who says that most women would be like I don't want to date a guy who

Isabellawears makeup you you disagree you think most women I mean I don't know I haven't asked most women for you date a guy who who wore a full face of makeup really sure yeah why not he's not talking about

Isabellalike guyliner from a rock band or something he's talking about you know a guy wearing real makeup yeah no i' I've seen straight men especially on Tik Tok they'll like use concealer line up their beard line up their hairline fill in

Isabellatheir eyebrows a little bit like maybe put on some blush some powder and it's enough to like make your complexion even maybe like make your eyebrows a little more shapely um it's not like they're looking

Brian Atlaslike James Charles okay here go ahead Nick you can um let's I'm trying to find a good transformation here uh that second one

Hollythe Pinterest one it's going looks like she's okay that's OD and honestly that's Glam like no woman who's unless you're very at we'll scroll down okay here the

Brian Atlasgirl in purple she looks better than the before girl in purple that's like I think that's you would see a girl walking around with that amount of makeup that she's wearing that's not

Isabellalike excessive I think I actually think she looks fine without the makeup to be honest um yeah let's scroll down like if someone has that much Glam

Isabellayou're already going to know like they they're not going to look like that cuz you can see how much makeup they're wearing men don't have a trained eye for that just so you know you can't see

Mesaflors you can't see the the colored like eyelids and the eyelashes no we don't pay any attention to that we don't put on makeup so we don't

Mesaknow so much about makeup and so much about like wanting the woman to have a natural can't tribute Brian's positions to these things to mine so I didn't say

Mesaa word about makeup one way or the other then I'll I'm the makeup hater I'm just explaining to you I can understand that this is being utilized or can be utilized for the purposes of deception

Mesathat's all I'm saying that's it yeah so in that that case and so in this case uh you know the women who are up there some of them clearly can use this for deception and

Mesano I don't think that men pay that much attention I don't think we really know the difference if it's uh a gal we're meeting for the first time I don't think we have any idea let's pull up the

Brian Atlastweets Nick we're going to switch gears here Haley here hie sorry h h we we got some of your tweets uh scroll up make it bigger please oh not my tweets I should

Brian Atlasknow I should have went private okay it's sad that men no longer value women with hustle ambition and education these days so question for you that was a while ago do you think men ever valued

Hollythose things in women um as I get older no but I tweeted that when I was like 18 well pull it back up

HollyNick 2021 so that was can you put us on the other as far as 19 yeah so what 2 and a half years agoo yeah and I and I was like mad I was like but I heard like about like a situation

Hollybut like now that I'm like older like yeah I don't really think men really value that at all any any women at the panel have any thoughts on that agree

Isabelladisagree you're saying men don't value women with hustle and education like I would say like most high most high earning men know

Brian Atlasokay hustle ambition and education so when it comes to they men don't value it in women in terms of it making women

Brian Atlasmore attractive to men so I would argue that most men are not particularly preoccupied with your ambition your money your Career Success

Brian Atlasyour educational achievement in terms of it making you more attractive yeah now I've realized that okay I disagree disagree I also you

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)guys feel free this is like a I'm opening it up wait like your ambition makes you okay here agree or disagree uh disagree like I I believe that men do actually care about that stuff okay what

Brian Atlasabout you some men care okay most men do not care most men do not care do you object to men not caring

Hollyabout that or do you object to that men don't really care care about it not if it doesn't relate to a personal relationship though um you said you've changed I said I've changed now that I've realized it's the truth and I'm

Hollyokay with it but sometimes I'm like I don't know say if I'm like really interested in a person and I know deep down he really doesn't care like what I do at all it makes me a little sad

Hollybecause it's like wow like you I'm I have a lot more to speak about than you know uh what do you do again I I do

Brian Atlasmarketing marketing mhm okay and you you got a Bachelor's degree yeah both of you went to Pepperdine you said yeah what did you get your Bachelor's in I didn't get my bachelor's degree oh did you are

Isabellayou still working on it or you just you on break dropped out um I guess break well like my my work Endeavors are like the degree isn't really needed so I've

Isabellabeen gaining a lot more experience but you know if I ever want to change paths then I'll go back to school okay I mean you're in marketing you're also in

Mesamarketing yeah he's saying he spent all that time to get a bachelor's degree and men don't even give a it's good for you but like from a a dating perspective I don't even know I

Brian Atlashave it honestly they just don't you should look you can get it for you but like you have to understand that men most men don't care from in terms of

Hollya like making you more attractive to them yeah now I I completely realize that I'm just saying like I have an issue with when you can you can tell when someone's genuinely disinterested and like for

Hollyexample like babe how's your day what was your day I talk about I have meetings this and this you could tell when they don't care you know so it would be nice to just kind of pretend to

Brian Atlascare a little bit I think honestly yeah but they don't care I don't care they don't care you might just be being shitty guy here wait wa wait did you

Hollyyou've been to work recently Friday were you last at work no you are you not working right now or I kind of like doing my own thing so I kind of like making my own

Hollyschedule okay pretend I'm your boyfriend complain to me about your job oh I used to do this a lot I hate my job I hate these people I work with I need to

Brian Atlasleave wow babe that was a great story anyways can you uh go get me uh some water please thank you like I would H people tell me like just

Brian Atlasquit but okay I okay then actually no no I I want to approach this from a different angle because if you have some interesting anecdote that happened at your job me personally look I I don't

Brian Atlasthink I would like recoil from hearing your story about whatever happened but bringing it back to kind of the central thing of do men

Brian Atlaslike does your job does your hustle does your ambition does your educational achievement make you more attractive as

Brian Atlasa partner to men broadly speaking no no yes oh you think yes absolutely and you

Brian Atlasthink yes so you your job makes you more attractive to men that's yeah so I'm curious so you're 22 now right

Brian Atlasso do you think how far long would you say you're where you're at you want would you say you're where you want to be in your career right now no cuz I'm still just

Brian Atlasstarting do you think you'll be there at 30 or 35 maybe 40 you'll be further along at 40 right do you think do you think you'll be more attractive to men

Isabellaat 40 than you are now physically or are you talking about in totality in totality well other 40 because you said that men care

Isabellaabout your success career ambition that's how that's what I found like whenever I tell someone my job they're like that's attrative sorry what's that they they literally tell me like they

Isabellathink it's super attractive that I am like working or that you're work but what what specifically do you tell them that you're doing what I they just find it attractive that you are no I I tell

Isabellathem like the steps that I like the things that I do in my job like the specifics which is what so I'll do a little bit of video editing I work closely with this YouTube channel that

Isabellahas like over a million subscribers Shout Out ride Share Hub um wait what what's it the ride Share Hub I thought you said ride share ho no I was like

Isabellasend me that channel um okay uh okay and then I have there's like a two creators that I help like get brand deals and do like ad campaigns um

Brian Atlaslike filming videos on the YouTube channel I have a sure and I have a question for you yeah has a man ever lied to you in order to get you into bed whether he did or not do you think a man's ever lied to you yes do you think

Brian Atlasmen lie to get laid they can't do you think men will flatter women or lie to women or compliment women in an effort to perhaps get on the woman's good side to get laid

Brian AtlasYeah so some men have done that yeah well will men even lie about political things to get laid for example a guy might even be pro-life but he'll lie to a woman and say he's pro-choice because he knows he's living in California and

Isabellahe wants to get laid do you think that's happen I've seen that happen with my own two eyes like yeah so is it possible that a man

Brian Atlashas tried to flatter you oh my god Isabella I'm just so impressed by your hustle and you're just you you wear all these hats and you're your video

Brian Atlasediting's on point and it's just I love your ambition do you think it's not it could be flattery and not

Isabellagenuine well but they I it could be yes but also like with working comes making money and my past relationships have really enjoyed when I like spoiled them

Mesabought them gifts which I couldn't do if I wasn't working or they would have enjoyed it just as much if you handcrafted them something I yeah but you know like it's like the hard it's like the heart of the question let's say

Mesathere's a really really really good-looking chick who's works at a McDonald's okay she's really good looking she's like a 10 okay such a thing exists that's what she is she

Mesaworks at a McDonald's next door over at the law firm there's a seven right there's a good established guy who has plenty of his own cash and he can choose between both which do you think he's

Isabellagoing to choose McDonald's yeah well I mean okay okay I I do do you want to answer the question though go ahead go ahead good okay I it's McDonald's right yeah no I

Isabellaunderstand what you're saying I also what if what if what if it's an eight but yeah which one answer is it McDonald's or is it the lawy that's what I was going to say like I don't know because I understand that

Isabellaprobably like everyone's put into their own I guess like social we're just talking on average think Che but I don't know cuz i' I've really been put in this other social bubble that's very different from yours where like the

Isabellapeople I know would probably choose the person working in the law firm over the person working at McDonald's but I'm like I I know that there's tons of people who

Hollywould choose the person working at McDonalds so I couldn't give you a different answer if it would be one or the other I think it's a red flag if a guy asks you too many questions about

Brian Atlasyour work okay cool wait so okay hold on because CU he's he's looking for a come up as that's what I found in my personal

Hollyexperience wait so then so they they want you to have this better like cooler job if they're looking for a come up as well no no like like if he like like like just asking too many questions about work it's a weird thing to explain so could be like hi hey babe how's your

Hollyday at work d d like what did you do blah blah blah blah blah but like if he's like oh you need to go get that promotion like

Sophia/Lizzy (mixed)no that's just my watching I I will say that as a receptionist I actually I think that does benefit me in a relationship because I tend to date men who are better at complex bigger

Sophia/Lizzy (mixed)problems cuz I'm not so good at that but I'm because I do reception I can book as a trip or I can do phone call stuff if they're not as so I'm better at the little things that can be supportive to my partner she couldn't she do all that

Brian Atlaswithout being a receptionist touche bringing it over to you you said you disagreed uh do you care to engage or

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)yes I mean I personally my own experience not not to discredit your experience but um I have found that men do tend to say like as soon as they find out um you know that I do like film

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)making stuff like that like oh my God that's so interesting that makes you cool and not to not to like I'm just P I'm just a messenger but they they'll be like these other girls uh here they don't care about anything they don't have have Ambitions they don't do

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)anything but you know I find it cool that you have these things but that's the game I I was getting to that you did bring up the point of men will lie to sleep with you and I'm like you know what Fair Point what guy what guy who

Brian Atlasyou're on a date with and you tell him your oh your job and he's going to be like I don't give a about your job he's going to be he's going to be polite

Brian Atlasand you know do the socially courteous thing of oh wow that's you know yeah yeah that's so cool life that's awesome I like good for you I love it

Hollygirl he's going to gas you up so he can hit it yeah but I think you should be making well I like to make my man feel really powerful and like I tend to be

Hollyreally and I tend to be like I'm pretty uh what's aggressive in my in my normal life like in college like I used to be like president of everything and like I always had like really high position so

Hollylike say if I just got promoted to like VP like I probably won't tell him going to be like oh my gosh like this girl is like out here arguing on the phone all day whatever I want him to feel like he's the

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)boss good times cool but don't you think that men still like at the end of the day they do still want their woman to have some sort of goal in life they don't want a woman that just wants to to

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)raise our nine sons of course raising your kids Warrior raising kid is important but you don't want someone that has absolutely no personality nothing you can talk to them about and

Mesaif they don't have H is of a job's not your personality a job's not your virtues a job's not any of those things well I was also talking about outside of your job you can have passion projects you can for example

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)like you can be a filmmaker but that's not your job but that's just something you do on the side it doesn't have to be a job I don't have hobbies film fil I think everyone would agree they want a partner that at least has one thing they're passionate about to kind of keep

Rosethem her passion should be me no and our family yeah men want women who are passionate and ambitious even if that means you know being a a wife and and

MesaHomemaker and raising your children don't give a about ambition you that men care about ambition they don't care about women's ambition so you want to be with somebody who doesn't have any goals in life cuz

Mesathat's didn't say Goals I said ambition you don't need to have be ambitious like you amb I don't think you understand what ambition means why don't you tell

Roseme go ahead tell them what I'm not good at uh defin on the fly at all so I thought I didn't know what it meant what the I mean I I don't

Mesathink you do but just I guess well I know you don't I know for sure you don't you can't even tell me what it means being able to describe something and and write you know the what it means in a dictionary is not the same thing no but

Brian Atlasyou you said you asked him he doesn't know what you mean by ambition so he's asking you to Define it yeah if ambition is having goals I can Google it if you want I can Google

Roseit that would be great but ambition is having goals and and seeking to you know uh rise above where you're at you know building skills you know having a goal and trying to reach it Andrew do you when you say you don't men don't care

Brian Atlasabout ambition do you mean it within the context of like career achievement academic achievement what I'm talking about is cuz what if a woman's ambitious for a family like you would agree that

Mesathat would be she's she wants well not even again we need to kind of narrow down what we mean here when we're talking about ambition so so for me when I'm when I'm thinking about ambition I'm

Mesathinking of I want to have Stellar achievement I want to have something which I'm which I'm moving towards which is to rise above some station or to move

Mesatowards this kind of overtly worthy thing generally speaking n men don't give a like if you start out a good cook and you end up a good cook they don't care they don't care they don't give a they

Mesadon't want you don't need to become a better and better they don't give a they they don't care like if you're just good enough you're good enough they don't give a I've never seen any of

Brian Atlasthem say nope you got to be you got you got really before hold on I want her I want to give her an opportunity to respond you seem to disagree with Andrew do you want

Roseto I think generally speaking people seek uh a partner who does have goals and goals are what give your life meaning can goals let let me come but it

Rosedoesn't have to be job related at all so I think something that I have goals I want to I want to be a homestead or I want to I want to raise a family like I want to become a better cook you brought up cooking like I think we why does a man care about those goals though

Brian Atlasbecause that you want to be a homesteader because he would like to do so as well for okay so then so it's his goals it's his

Brian Atlasgoals well think the context of the the context of the conversation is occupational career educational

Brian Atlasachievement that's the context not and Andrew maybe has differing views on this I don't object to a woman who is desirous or has goals to having a

Mesafamily I it's what I'm just saying about what what is cared about what the preference is but let's keep it within

Brian Atlasthe context of Career Success Financial uh educational achievement men in those Realms men don't really care

Roseabout women's ambition in that regard no I think I I I agree on that oh it was just unclear when you said you know men don't care if women have Ambitions I I just okay here let's not linger long

Hollybecause I want to try to wrap but but quickly but for the men so say for example right you meet this girl and um she has she's in school for something long term but like you guys both mutually decide like y'all want to start

Hollysettle down and start a family do you think that she should forfeit her career for a potential husband hband and family yeah yeah

Hollyyeah what about you what about me the like what do you should should the woman forfit her career for a potential family and

Brian Atlashusband should she well it depends what the arrangement is going to be do you want to have one kid two kids three kids four if if her standard is going to be well

Brian Atlaswhile I'm pregnant I don't want to be in the workforce and then during those early years I don't want to uh be in the workforce and then I also want to have three four five kids you are going to forfeit your career so remember the

Brian Atlasexample and well and if I can give my own perspective if I can give my own perspective let's say I want to have seven sons uh and I'm a high earner and you

Brian Atlaswant to go pursue your career where at the top end of your career you're going to be making $775,000 a year and I'm making say I'm making seven seven figures a

Brian Atlasyear no think you should take care of the kids so why do that career if I can

Hollyprovide I agree so in the example that we were saying like remember the 25 year-old having kids and then the 40-year-old man right so say the 25-year-old is just starting her career and all of a sudden The 40-Year-Old wants kids should she just like stop because she's obviously very early in

Mesaher career should she just should she just stop what she's doing yes but you can have a career and have children at the same you can also not have a career and take care of your children at the same time you can do both the none of

Mesathese are mutually exclusive so her should her should ought what should what's optimal what's optimal is you listen to your 40-year-old husband if he tells you stay the home and watch

Brian Atlasthe kids then you stay the home and you watch the kids it's simple if I could play devil's advocate for one um you're such a

Brian Atlasmisogynist you are just a misogynist and the whatever podcast being a feminist platform does not appreciate your your she asked she just like the ask

Mesais what thing should be done if the husband wants this thing yes from my worldview yeah you need to do what ultimately your husband tells you to do I am sorry I I I do want to try to wrap

Brian Atlasup relatively soon so I'm just going to try to get through some of our last talking points here doie soprano says Brian by your logic about makeup

Brian Atlasclothing is a lie too if you stand by your argument stop lying to us uh I don't think that that

Isabellais coh shapewear which is predominantly worn by women women but are is that a lie too no yes wait what no no no you're

Brian Atlastalking about clothes right no she's shapewear is like it'll give a woman a certain figure even though like it'll oh wait Nick could you pull up the the yoga one please the you know what I'm talking about the yoga pants uh yeah it it

Brian Atlasshould be in the makeup folder so yeah shapew wear is a lie but if you're just wearing like a t-shirt if you're wearing a uh you're going to have

Brian Atlasto so I mean this to me uh is a bit deceptive I'm not look she's not

Brian Atlasobese she's got a little little belly whatever but like if that's the

Brian Atlastransformation that's deceptive no no you don't think that's deceptive it depends on her intentions dude wait wait there's a oh my God

Brian Atlasthere's another video where it's like a woman who like they just stuff all of it in they hide that do you know what I'm talking about it's so

Brian Atlasdeceptive you are hiding a 100 pounds of fat she's laughing because she knows it's true now Isabelle is very very she knows it's true okay

Brian AtlasI definitely know it's true I've tried some on in like the department stores I don't know how you get that in how does that work I don't know it blows my mind okay doie soprano thank

Brian Atlasyou man appreciate that right we got Nickelodeon always going on about dating 18-year-old girls is basically p word uh how many girls here are okay with s sad baby Dez and other three ofos making money off of

Brian Atlasboys oh my God okay well this is okay um disavow n thank you Nickelodeon appreciate it

Brian Atlasum thank you appreciate that that was cool okay all right uh let's see I got some more notes here I'm going to try to blast through them we got to get through

Brian Atlaseverybody we got we got through Isabella not in that way okay um we got Mesa that's your name right yes you

Brian Atlassaid your Patrick baitman Stan account on your Instagram yeah you fan of American Psycho yeah it's my favorite movie have you seen uh what's it called what the Rules of Attraction what's wrong with American Psycho no I haven't

Brian Atlasseen that isn't that like don't incels always push that I don't don't self truth be it's actually a red flag of a girl that's her favorite movie like how

Brian Atlaswhy is that your favorite movie you just like the cinematography I love I love the soundtrack specifically oh wait hold on to be clear as somebody who studied

Brian Atlasfilm your favorite film is your favorite film because of the music in it yes that is music just kind of ties the

Brian Atlaswhole movie together Brian her her favorite film is her favorite film because of the music I love the character Patrick baitman specifically not because I agree with are are you attracted to him yeah he's a

Brian Atlasgood-looking guy no no are you attracted to the character of Patrick baitman in his cold murderous ways no but the actor

Brian Atlasis a good-looking guy such an overrated movie do you do you like Huey Lewis in the news their early work was a little too new W for my taste I was but

Brian Atlaswhen Sports came out in ' 83 they really came into their own both commercially and artistically I'd say their Undisputed Masterpiece is hip to be square a song so catchy you probably

Brian Atlasdon't listen to the lyrics but you should okay I think you should ridiculous wasn't that right before he like went in and beat up a hooker no that was before he murdered somebody

Brian Atlaswith he mured Paul Allen oh Paul Allen okay uh you said that you're moderate leaning towards conservative feminists in some aspects but mostly traditional I think we talked about that um you've

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)experienced we talked about arranged marriages uh did you ever have any prospects on the arranged marriage front um yes um so it was kind of it was more of just

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)like a setup by our parents um without our knowledge um just to get us to meet each other and see what the Vibes were but um that didn't work out because I

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)was I just wasn't aware that that was the intention of that um evening so things just didn't work out but that's okay okay we

Mesahave back to the American Psycho thing real quick yes so I did I mean I do see those accounts like all over Twitter and all over everything yeah but I thought that this was used ironically isn't that

Unnamed (Algerian-Canadian)the whole point to use it are you just you're not using it unironically I don't know maybe I I don't know it's I mean I don't really post about American Psycho on my account it's just something that's just kind of

Brian Atlasthere it's just on my bio have you read the book by Brett East Ellis I have not I should get I should get to that hold on this is your favorite movie and it never occurred to you to read the book

Brian Atlasin which it's based on no you know what you should watch uh this is also a book from Brett East analysis called The Rules of Attraction okay and actually this is total tangent here I've been

Brian Atlastrying to get the director of that film on the show uh well not on the dating talk but a one-on-one interview because interestingly enough the rules of attraction is not my favorite movie but

Brian Atlasit's one of my favorite movies it's a dark comedy and it's a uh really interesting film because I think it's actually the closest film

Brian Atlasabout like the college experience cuz a lot of people like I feel like some people have this disi view of how college is going to be but it's actually can be quite dark and deal with some

Brian Atlasvery adult topics once you once you get to college and um it's uh the the antagonist prot well patri uh his brother sha baitman is one of the main

Brian Atlascharacters in the film The Rules of Attraction he's the brother of Patrick bitman so so the the universes are kind of intertwined in the books and in the film and uh it's a very dark film but I

Brian Atlasdo encourage you it came out in like 2001 I think and uh it's a good film anyways kind of tangent there but since you're a fan of American pycho I thought I'd recommend to you I'll check it out

Brian Atlasthe rules of attraction uh directed by Roger Avery starring what's what's the guy's name from Dawson's Creek he plays Shawn baitman anybody know

Brian AtlasDawson's Creek am I too much of a boomer for this is Dawson's Creek too much of a boomer thing yeah with some big names in there there's Kip parue there's Ian

Brian Atlassummer what's his name summer summer di never mind I didn't say that um you guys watch Dawson's Creek no no no he the guy oh what's the

Brian AtlasDawson's Creek guy wait can you pull up chat Dawson's Creek Guy what's his name the the guy who played Dawson James vanderbeek thank you I don't how do I um James vanderbeek and then who's the girl

Brian Atlaswho's married to Justin Timberlake what's her name in your life Ava Longoria is that her who's the girl who's dated or no married to Justin Timberlake who's that I wouldn't

Brian Atlasknow what's her name Jessica beel Jessica beel is in it anyways derailed okay cool um check out the film it's

Brian Atlasgood okay okay uh let's see we're going to Angelica Rose uh Scranton yep uh you met your current husb oh we should have got okay you met your current husband

Rosewhile on house arrest he was on house arrest yeah while he was on house arrest he was working a job and he was uh on his lunch break and I was in line behind him we actually knew each other like kind of on Facebook

Rosebecause we live in a small town so if you have like I don't know back in the day if you had like 200 mutuals you would just friend people but um yeah so

Rosehe's a musician and I'm a bit of a creative dabbler so we initially started hanging out to jam and we we started having these great conversations and it got romantic and he

Rosewas just this great guy and I remember you know expressing my feelings to him and he was like I'm polyamorous um which is really funny

Rosebecause we actually um well we're we're Mar we're married now and we were together 7 years we probably moved in together 2 months after that and have been together ever

Brian Atlassince exclusively um okay but you so you said he was on house arrest do you know what what was he on house arrest for well he was just starting to build

Brian Atlashis life back together he was in recovery so caught with some illicit possession or distribution I'm not quite sure you're

Rosenot aren't you married marijuana something possession I'm not sure if it was possession distribution is this in California I'm

Brian Atlasnot quite sure how it works no this was in Pennsylvania oh okay uh all right you also said that you think your stories of

Brian Atlashow I grew up are most interesting we can't get into Super detail but do you want to give us a quick plot synopsis on on that in your pre-show notes you said I

Rosethink my stories of how I grew up are most interesting in relation to uh so I grew up in a very traditional catholic uh homeschooled family mhm uh lots of

Rosesiblings um conservative values mhm uh so I mean I I didn't know if that that would maybe feed into anything we discussed today but yeah I just it's a it's a little bit of different

Rosebackground than did the progressive machine take your mind uh I think that I was I I lean toward liberal as I was a pretty open-minded person but you know

Brian Atlasas you get older you start to understand the values more you know what I mean MH okay you also said that you consider yourself a small wealth of relationship advice you've studied psychology most of

Brian Atlasyour life uh so considering that you're a small wealth of relationship advice what are your top three dating tips uh I think the first one is to

Rosejust get in touch with who you actually are and present that to people um I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend what does that mean in practice [Music]

Rosethough I think it it means reflecting on on yourself and actually spending time you know not just going through the machine dayto day I think it means like reflecting on yourself you know when you when relationships don't work out you

Roseknow looking to yourself to see maybe how you contributed to that um wait so repeat the first part again so you should

Rosewhat reflect on your own self become aware of your own thoughts your own behaviors okay what what your interests are okay sure be sure i' yeah I'd agree

Rosewith that you got okay top three okay uh that way you can find somebody who aligns with that okay any other uh dating

Brian Atlastips you said you're a wealth small wealth of relationship advice why are you looking at me the way I'm just I'm going off of what you

Brian Atlaswrote what are you mad is this a death stare I'm confused no it's not a death stare I mean you're just kind of putting me on the spot and well yeah we go one by one I'm going through everybody's pre I mean like the way you're bringing it

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