Michael Knowles DESTROYS Whatever Podcast?! Are OF/E-Girls Traditional?! | Dating Talk #132
Date: 2024-02-02
Duration: 6h 08m
Guests
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_00TTS/Donations(audience)
SPEAKER_01Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_02Sophie(guest)
SPEAKER_03Nicollet(guest)
SPEAKER_06Michael Knowles(guest)
SPEAKER_07Madison Vu(guest)
SPEAKER_09Maddie(guest)
SPEAKER_10Cindy Zang(guest)
SPEAKER_11Mia Huffman(guest)
SPEAKER_12Naomi Lynn(guest)
Key Moments
00:06:38
IntroMichael Knowles introduction - 'I am a cigar salesman and I do not yet do only fans'
“I'm Michael nolles I am a cigar salesman and I do not yet do only fans and I don't intend to”
00:08:08
Key MomentSophie reveals her ex-fiance was born female and transitioned to male mid-engagement
“when we started dating he said I'm a woman I want to be treated like a woman and then he transitioned”
01:32:49
QuoteNaomi Lynn reveals she left a six-figure corporate director-of-sales job for OnlyFans
“I was a director of sales... six figures regardless... I quit it to do only fans”
01:35:35
QuoteMaddie discloses she's made $200-300K from sugar daddies and 100-200 paid dates
“probably a few hundred thousand... should we say 300,000 safe number”
01:43:46
QuoteCindy reveals a fan pre-paid $10K to spit on him; meetup not yet happened
“one of my fans said they would pay like $10,000 for me to spit on them... yeah I said yeah I'm down”
02:07:06
QuoteMichael Knowles on the road to redemption for OF girls: stop, then go to church
“the very first thing I would recommend doing is stop... go to church as much as you want to”
02:20:44
ControversyCindy accuses Brian of subscribing to her OnlyFans after seeing 'Brian Atlas' in her subscriber list
“I saw in my statements as this your your first and last name”
03:49:31
QuoteRatings round - Brian self-rates as a 5 due to gained weight/dad bod
“I used to rate myself a six however I've gained a bit of weight... I'm now a five cuz I got a bit of a dad bod”
11:12:00
Key MomentMadison Vu discloses frat-rat history at Cal Poly Pomona; walked in on by frat members
“I used to go to Cal Poly Pomona I was a little frat rat... walked in on by the whole frat no just like large groups”
Topics Discussed
00:05:39
Guest introductions and relationship statuses
Guests introduce themselves: name, age, location, occupation. Then relationship status round. Sophie's broken engagement to a trans man is a major discussion point.
01:25:00
OnlyFans and sex work economy
Discussion of sugar daddies, pay pigs, 'What's Your Price' app, escort-adjacent paid dates. Maddie describes 100-200 paid dates and a $100K sugar daddy. Cindy discusses a fan paying $10K to spit on him.
02:10:00
Michael Knowles debates OF girls on relationships and marriage
Michael Knowles challenges the panel on how OnlyFans/sex work affects long-term relationship prospects. Discussion of whether women can 'have it all' and still find a quality partner later.
03:06:40
Feminism, equal pay, women's sports
Maddie says she supports feminism but 'not over the top'. Discussion of WNBA pay equity, women's soccer, and whether equal pay demands are consistent.
03:18:20
Aliens, religion, and the supernatural
Michael argues aliens are 'just demons for libs' and there's no evidence for extraterrestrial life. Cindy and Naomi say they'd date an alien if rich/attractive enough.
03:49:31
Self-ratings round (looks 1-10)
Everyone rates their looks 1-10. Most women say 10. Brian rates himself 5 (gained weight, dad bod). Michael rates himself 8.
03:56:40
Dating preferences and exclusivity
Brian explains he wants women who are exclusively interested in him from first date; no other men in the picture. Panel pushes back on this as unrealistic.
04:08:20
Plastic surgery debate
Debate over labiaplasty, breast implants, BBLs. Naomi (SPEAKER_12) reveals she had a labiaplasty during a year of celibacy. Brian argues plastic surgery is a proxy for mental illness or excessive vanity.
04:30:00
Religion, Christianity, and porn
Michael Knowles debates Cindy on wearing a cross while doing porn. Sophie discusses her Biblical scholarship and her non-denominational Christian background. Broader discussion of Catholicism, Bible translation, abortion.
05:25:00
Makeup and physical deception
Brian argues makeup is deceptive; panel defends makeup as self-expression. Comparison to men wearing shoe lifts or toupees. Makeup transformation videos shown.
Transcript
Page 1 of 7
00:00:12
Brian Atlaswelcome to the whatever dating Talk podcast where we try to make sense of the modern dating hellscape thanks for tuning in tonight you could have been anywhere in the world but you're here with me I appreciate that we're coming to you live from Santa Barbara California every Sunday and Tuesday at
00:00:24
Brian Atlas5:00 pm Pacific I'm your host Brian Atlas I'm joined by my co-host Kiki back there she's a bit shy a few quick announcements before the show begins this podcast is viewer supported heavy
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00:00:58
Brian Atlasdescription uh watch while you still can you know support while you still can uh I I've went over it in previous shows but the DHS they wrote a very or day
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Brian Atlasthey funded uh $700,000 towards Arizona State University feminists to write a report that that the discourse on this
00:01:16
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00:02:05
Brian Atlaswe're you're also able to gift memberships we're also live on Twitch right now guys pull up another tab go to twitch.tv/ whatever drops follow in the prime sub if you have one if you have Amazon Prime you can link it to your Twitch quick free easy way to support the show every single month we got merch
00:02:17
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00:02:28
Brian Atlascan also DM us here follow me on Instagram at BD Atlas check out my nonprofit movement big La M BLM for short um yep uh if you can't catch the
00:02:38
Brian Atlasfull shows we have a Clips Channel link is in the description go check it out uh we have three different clips channels so uh yeah check it out guys uh oh that's the that's the other thing we got
00:02:50
Brian Atlason one of our Clips channels over the break we hit 100,000 subscribers we got the plaque um I'll open it later just as a thank you guys we got one of those 100,000 subscriber plaqu for our third Clips channel so appreciate it guys
00:03:02
Brian Atlasthank you thank you and uh oh disclaimer the views expressed by the panelists do not necessarily reflect the views of the whatever podcast or the host and actually I'd also like to throw out Nick if you're able to pull it up Michael
00:03:14
Brian Atlasnolles has a fantastic YouTube channel but also also a fantasticon Cigar Company um you make a great point there it is Mayflower cig sorry I didn't mean
00:03:26
Michael Knowlesthere it is there you know it's uh and actually just for this show we are now we sold out 4 month supply in 24 hours we've been out of stock it's the it's the biggest cigar lunch ever everyone
00:03:37
Michael Knowleswants it we've been out for months just for this show pre-orders are live again mayflower.com whatever we should do a c we do a coupon you know what I have to say though you have to be 21 years old
00:03:49
Brian Atlasor older to smoke cigars and some exclusion Supply even though I was 15 it doesn't matter you know what can you pull up the the thing one more time the the the window tab with with his
00:04:00
Brian Atlaswebsite that's not exactly I was hoping the the homepage do we have do we have the homepage Well's whenever you get it take your time take your time no rush it's all
00:04:12
Michael Knowlesgood yeah boom look at that you know what um how did you come up with the name Mayflower well my some of my family not the Italian part but the English part
00:04:23
Michael Knowlescame over on the Mayflower and oh wow that's so sick oh thank you super sick thank that's an endorsement right there cind Z all right we should put that on the website yeah I should promote your VI a model oh that would be great I'll
00:04:36
Brian Atlasget you a cigar she's can I get on the hustle um so I I don't know I was going to make a point about the oh there there
00:04:43
Brian Atlasit is if you want to uh the the other end there we go that's great well done all right good
00:04:55
Michael Knowlesand is it in association with the daily wire or it is yeah we I went to the daily wire and I said hey Could I Have a Cigar Company and because the daily wire
00:05:04
Michael Knowlesdoesn't make business decisions based on like finances or responsibility or logic they were just like yeah sure totally and so we made this thing based in part on my family you know the Mayflower but
00:05:16
Michael Knowlesalso it's that's very American and cigars are very floral you get a scent you know it's very religious smell it I'm going to smell it right now that's what do you what's your take what do you
00:05:26
Michael Knowlesthink it smells fresh very fresh it does yeah uhhuh you can pass it around it uh you know it's religious in the sense that the body is a temple and the temple needs incense so you can get yours today there you have it sounds good without
00:05:39
Brian Atlasfurther Ado we're going to have the guests introduce themselves so please starting with you we'll have you tell us your name age location so where you're
00:05:46
Cindy Zangfrom an occupation go ahead hi guys my name is Cindy Zang I am a model actor streamer and a lot of other
00:05:58
Maddiestuff I'm Maddie I'm from Atlanta I'm 19 and I do only fans I'm Naomi I'm 25 I'm from Scottdale
00:06:08
Sophieand I do all fans my name is Sophie I'm 21 um I'm still figuring out my occupation but I'm from Atlanta and I just moved to San
00:06:18
NicolletDiego hi I'm Nicola I'm 24 I do only fans I'm a stripper and I'm from Orange County California hi I'm Mia I am 21 I'm from
00:06:29
Mia HuffmanLA and I do only fans hello my name is Madison Vu I'm 19 years old I'm a full-time student at Santa Bar City College at the moment I
00:06:38
Michael Knowleswork on the whatever podcast as well as the Rosewood merar I'm Michael nolles I am a cigar salesman and I do not yet do only fans and I don't intend to I don't
00:06:50
Michael Knowlesthink I would do very well on it but I certainly don't now a mark If you collaborate with me I don't know I might not totally Sky
00:06:59
Brian Atlasrocking oh well okay in that case maybe yeah okay there you have it uh all right going around the table once more what is everybody's current relationship status so are you single talking stage
00:07:11
Brian Atlassituationship Friends with Benefits relationship married polyu sex cult if you're single how long have you been single what's your longest relationship go
00:07:21
Cindy Zangahead I am single so any of you guys that are watching you know hit my line but like uh my long is maybe like half a
00:07:31
Maddieyear haven't really dated long term I'm single I've been single for a little over a year my longest relationship
00:07:41
Sophiewas I'm single I've been single for a little bit over two years but yeah I'm single I just broke off an engagement um my longest relationship is
00:07:53
Sophieprobably 2 years on and off when did you break off the engagement like a month ago a month ago why is what happened there um I think it just came down to compatibility and the other person not
00:08:05
Sophieknowing what they wanted um when we started dating he was originally a woman and then after the engagement he transitioned into a man so I think it
00:08:16
Brian Atlaswas something that just we weren't compatible wait so you said he was originally a woman so born female born female transition to male so you were
00:08:28
Sophiedating a female initially and engage to a female um yes I'm not sure the most respectful
00:08:37
Sophieway to put it um but when we started dating he said I'm a woman I want to be treated like a woman and then he transitioned well wouldn't it have been
00:08:47
Michael Knowlesshe said if we're talking past tense well actually I'm not sure on this one I think now they say whatever you change to that's the one you always even if
00:08:57
Sophieyou're talking like it's a his Caitlyn Jenner won the men's to cathlon she did a great job that's what they want you to say I to be called he the most respectful way to put it is to use their
00:09:07
Maddiechosen pronouns okay even when okay even when so it didn't start off that way but now he prefers to be called he so she respects that but if you're talking about something in the past you can you
00:09:18
Brian Atlascan you retroactively change he said he said X but at that point he was a she so then would it not could you say she I
00:09:28
Sophiethink everyone's um opinion is different and it's just what is most respectful to the person and what they prefer and so Midway through your
00:09:39
Sophierelationship uh she wanted to become a man Midway um like halfway through the engagement one day out of nowhere he said I'm a man I'm
00:09:51
Sophiegoing to start my transition I'm going to get on testosterone you're on board or not where where did that come from I genuinely don't know because it wasn't talked about ever before that it was just kind of one day it was like this is
00:10:02
Sophiewhat's happening did you ask were you just like well uh sure um I definitely was interested in getting like knowing why and when he made that decision and
00:10:13
Sophiehe said he had talked to past exes about the transition and they were basically like if you transition I'm going to break up with you and that wasn't my position on it I just was kind of like why would you not bring this up before
00:10:25
Cindy Zangyou asked me to marry you huh okay um biologically does he still have a
00:10:35
Brian Atlasvagina um respectfully I'm not going to talk about his okay yeah so do you uh in terms of your sexuality are you bisexual are you straight are you lesbian I think I'm still figuring it out but I think
00:10:47
NicolletI'm bisexual leaning mostly towards women okay got it okay Nicollet what what about you um I'm
00:10:56
Nicolletsingle my longest relationship 7 years and I've been single for almost 2 years okay I am single I've been single for
00:11:07
Mia Huffmanabout a year and that's it sorry I'm not single I'm in a beautiful lovely committed relationship with my boyfriend Frankie uh my current
00:11:19
Michael Knowlesrelationship is my longest relationship it's about a year and 5 months I'm married with Children I have
00:11:27
Michael Knowlesbeen married for 5 and a half years I dated my now wife again starting like
00:11:35
Michael Knowlesage 21 22 but we dated the first time when we were 16 to 18 we basically everyone told us we had to break up for college and then we got back together at
00:11:45
Michael Knowlesthe end of college and we met when we were 10 or 11 oh wow that's beautiful oh thanks that's that's beautiful so that's my longest relationship you know because
00:11:55
Michael Knowlesit's most of my life that doesn't that hold on Cindy that did not sound very authentic when you said that thought that wasere very cute was that not sincere iere I thought it was cute no it was sincere I thought it was it was
00:12:07
Michael Knowlestalking about my brand ambassador for Mayflower cigar here she wouldn't she wouldn't be you guys have kids we do how many two and a half boy or girl so we got so two boys then the one that's cooking we don't quite know we're not
00:12:20
Michael Knowlesgoing to find out yet congratulations thank you thanks so I we're you know it'd be nice to have a daughter so that someone would take care of me and my wife our old age and you know be like nice to us and things but I don't know I
00:12:33
Michael KnowlesI my wife thinks perhaps the new one is a boy and I I think I'm so teeming with testosterone and why chromosomes and virility I don't know that I would succeed at producing a daughter but
00:12:44
Sophiewe're trying quick question why does she have to be um a girl to take care of you an old age why couldn't your sons do that look they could but I'm just look knowing how women are more the caretakers they are is the thing look
00:12:57
Michael Knowlesit'd be nice if they didn't show of us in a home I'm just looking at statistics and probability care of you either way kids that's your kids that's very sweet of you to say and I hope you're right but I don't want to bet on that you know I want to I want to cover my basis well
00:13:10
Brian Atlasmaybe you'll get a daughter who I might I might actually Michael adopted me so I I'm going to take care of you in you're actually wait how old you you son 33 oh
00:13:22
Michael KnowlesI'm actually older than you so I know that I don't know how that works out the last panel I was on the the gals came up to me after they said we thought you were much older than you are I said what does that mean oh man I thought you were like 50 or something that's very
00:13:34
Michael Knowlesinsulting why would you she said no I'm just saying man you don't you don't give Millennial Vibes you know you give you're like a big Boomer and she was just insulting me right to my face I yeah it's outrageous you don't look old
00:13:46
Maddiethough thank you you have really pretty skin what did you say I said you have really pretty skin no come on shout out the skare routine yeah drop the skincare routine for all the girls all right so skincare
00:13:58
Michael Knowlesroutine number one you got to descend from Italians so you have to produce olive oil just on your face all the time and then you should shower you know regularly and that's about it wow simple
00:14:09
Brian Atlassimple I'm half Italian I guess I got like half that Jean yeah you've got great skin thank you okay all right well I'm curious because aside from Madison and Michael here it sounds like all of
00:14:20
Brian Atlasyou are single so what does being single in 2020 is it4 oh my God yeah 2024 what does that what does that actually mean what does that look like so Cindy and the
00:14:32
Brian Atlasrest of you um you've been single come on there's guys in the picture right no I don't know the way you kind of
00:14:44
Brian Atlasdarted your eyes a little bit makes me question if that's true no there isn't I just been working no guys no guys in the picture so if I
00:14:54
Brian Atlastold you that somebody dm'd me after your last appearance and said well actually I've been romantically involved with Cindy that wouldn't what I'm just kidding
00:15:06
Brian Atlasno I'm like who uh Snoop Dog I don't know who Snoop Dogg what did he DM you Kidd no but another rapper did anyways um well what
00:15:18
Brian Atlasabout you so you're single right but um is there there's and when we say single like let's also include uh situationships sneak sne
00:15:28
Brian Atlaslinks Friends with Benefits what's the sneaky link ladies want to help me out on this one um it's a person you sneakily link
00:15:38
Maddiewith bu link makes sense on the low yeah you're not about you don't care about like it's not like you're going to date the person but it's cool if you hang out what's the difference between
00:15:50
Maddiethat and a a friend with benefits is basically the same thing but like keep it a secret is it more sneaky why is it more sneaky cuz the person is more shameful it's just more no it's just you don't want everyone knowing your business it's just low like you know
00:16:02
Michael Knowleswhat I mean ter it's like you don't pop out together but you leave together yeah that's what a what a devastating description that would be you you don't pop out together but she
00:16:14
Maddieleaves it it is that's exactly what happens like I swear that's exactly what happens but it sucks so now that we've got some defition I don't like I'm not
00:16:24
Brian Atlastalking to anyone at the moment though nobody no zero sing single single yeah very single so so okay I'll go around the table on this but what about you no
00:16:35
Naomi Lynnnothing in the picture nothing in the picture but I mean we we all get DMS we're all cute girls we all get DMS and stuff we have options mhm but no I don't
00:16:47
Sophieentertain anything right now I'm just trying to work and grind out you okay okay what about you um I'm currently single single single not looking how remind me how recently was the break up
00:16:59
Sophieof the engagement a month a little bit over a month ago but then how long were you guys dating for not long enough um long we probably got engaged like 4
00:17:10
Sophiemonths after we started dating so that was my first mistake I will say that okay who proposed um it was kind of both of our leases were ending at the same time and he was like I really want to move in
00:17:22
Sophietogether I really want to take this to the next step I was like I really don't um and then finally I to move in together we were getting more serious and he was like hey well I don't want to move in with you unless we're engaged and I was like okay well I'm not ready
00:17:34
Sophieto commit my whole life to you right now so okay and then he was like it can be a long engagement like we can take our time we can figure things out as we go and I was like okay sure I like you I
00:17:44
Brian Atlassee okay one uh is anybody so you're by right anybody else here by sexual I'm straight As
00:17:54
Brian Atlasline straight but I make fun girl content yeah okay okay just for Content self-promotion Ro how about okay so who's for Content when
00:18:05
Brian Atlasyou're making your content okay what about what about what about for actual romantic interest no no interpersonal romantic
00:18:18
Maddieokay well I think women are beautiful and like I'm I love boobs I love but like okay I'm not attracted to women y just had jasine on here that's my
00:18:27
Brian Atlasco-host on Thoughts with thoughts I'm Just Thoughts with thoughts t h o t that's good that's good okay um question for you how how many First Dates have
00:18:39
Brian Atlasyou been on with a woman oh my God like 10 oh 10 so question who pays I'm I'm just curious like on a if it's you know you get
00:18:52
Sophiedinner who pay if it's two women who pays yeah like I think when I'm with a woman personally I think it should be equal effort wise um a lot of times I offer to pay if it's going well or I
00:19:05
Sophieoffer to split it but one thing I like about relationships with women is there not there's not as much pressure with that kind of thing so it kind of like gives you the opportunity to get to know someone without like okay who's paying
00:19:16
Sophieor who's taking who out it's kind of more like a friendship at the beginning okay interesting so you guys just split the bill or I mean in my experience like if it's going really
00:19:27
Sophiewell like sometimes I'll offer to pay or sometimes the other person will offer to pay it kind of just depends and do you have a different standard when like if you're going on a date with a guy does it does your
00:19:39
Sophiestandard change though I have never since like before since I was like 14 or 15 I've never subjected myself to going on a date knowingly with a man um what do you
00:19:50
Sophiemean by subject what do you mean by knowing I just don't really enjoy it I just don't really I mean and maybe my position will change like if I really really like a guy I could see myself
00:20:01
Sophiepursuing it into the relationship stage but I've just never really gotten to that point with a guy and I've never really chosen to go on a date with a guy over a woman why when you say starting
00:20:11
Sophieat 14 that's when I swore off men it wasn't swore off men but I feel like um like Middle School in my freshman year of high school I'd have those little cute little flings it doesn't mean anything you don't really do anything
00:20:23
Sophieyou just kind of hang out and um once I got to the puberty point I realized I women and that was the end of that um but I feel like the older I get the less
00:20:33
Sophieclosed off I get to potentially pursuing a relationship with a man but I think it would just have to be something like a situation that stood
00:20:42
Brian Atlasout to me enough that I liked that person enough and it just hasn't you haven't met Mr Wright wait question was the precipitating factor of the end of your engagement because of the
00:20:55
Sophietransition of your partner to totally right I don't think that it wasn't because of the transition of my partner I feel like it was because of his failure to disclose certain
00:21:06
Sophiethings to me and make things look a certain way and then turn out a different way right um I feel like that it just caused a lot of trust issues because I'm like if you thought about this a year ago and you say you want to marry me and spend the rest of your life
00:21:18
Sophiewith me then why would you not tell me this did it just feel like betrayal yeah kind of yeah and you mentioned that they knew this before he knew this before you guys even got together before I was more
00:21:28
Sophiein like I was convinced I was a lesbian um and I very well might be but I'm just not as closed off to potentially letting a relationship with a man happen what would that even mean though if you say
00:21:40
Michael Knowleslike I'm open to dating men but I might be a lesbian what does that even mean in that circum didn't you just say I'm obviously not mean I don't really like labels because I think I'm so young and I'm still figuring it out and I haven't
00:21:51
Sophielike been on enough dates with guys to say I would never end up with a man yeah um but I just prefer not to um it's just kind of interesting I'm not really
00:22:03
Michael Knowlesattracted to anything men have to offer honestly well me neither but I I it's it's sort of interesting I can I really empathize with you but it's odd to say like okay here's what I'm doing and here's my behavior and I'm open to going
00:22:16
Michael Knowleson a date with a guy and I haven't really gone on any dates with guys but maybe secretly deep down I'm a lesbian but I to the way I think about what I really am I think like well I am the things that I do and do things that I
00:22:29
Sophiedesire and I desire things as I know them and it's sort of just like you know it's not really deep down I'm secretly a lesbian it's just that I feel like I don't have enough experience being with men to classify
00:22:40
Sophiemyself as a lesbian and I'm still figuring it out I'm a very open person and I feel like subjecting myself to labels makes it harder to be open to new
00:22:50
Brian Atlassituations do you want to have kids I do want to have kids okay do you and but if your partner ends up being a woman would you adopt would you do a sergy I think that'd be something I talk about with my
00:23:02
Brian Atlaspartner and see what they're comfortable with but I think no matter what we do I mean I'm open to a lot of different options got it uh Nick by the way to the whatever Instagram I sent a Twitter video that I tweeted out a while ago
00:23:14
Brian Atlasrelated to the whoa P thing that's kind of somewhat related to this um but moving on so okay nicholet single but come on there's you got a sneaky link
00:23:24
Brian Atlasmaybe right sneaky link nothing It's Hard Out Here hard out here why why is it hard out here um guys just like stuck in bed oh so I'm like I don't even want
00:23:36
Nicolletto like try and like be disappointed and just catch an extra body so I'm just like you know I have my Hitachi there's there seems to be someing yes it's true's what's a Hitachi
00:23:47
Michael Knowleswhat's aach it's a giant vibrator oh okay I was thinking of the Japanese dinner place where they throw the shrimp in your mouth oh
00:23:59
Brian Atlasyeah no h uh it sounds like a lot of the women's women excuse me concurred with
00:24:07
Brian Atlasher position that well why even H add a uh another sexual partner reuse and because not even getting sexually
00:24:19
Brian Atlaspleasured and you can do it better yourself yeah literally oh okay all right so that's it that's the primary reason you're single Nicole is the men are just terrible in dead is that it well that's not why I'm single that's
00:24:31
Nicolletjust why I don't have like a sneaky link oh yeah well what what's okay then why are you single I'm single because I'm doing like active sex work
00:24:40
Nicolletand it's just like harder to date and I just like want to focus on me and once I'm at where I want in my career and financially then I'll be able to date would you would you give that up to to
00:24:53
Nicolletdate someone if someone's willing to like fund my life then yeah why do you have to look for someone to fun your life because why would I quit what I'm doing that makes me like so much money well if what you if what you're doing is
00:25:06
Michael Knowlespreventing you from having something that you would desire and would make you happy then you might say look okay I can make more money stripping or whatever but uh maybe I'll make double what I can make stripping you know or I could make
00:25:18
Michael Knowleshalf of what I make stripping working at a Starbucks or something but I don't want to work on to Starbucks like no woman wants to work to be honest so you you want to find a man to get married and yeah I'll be a housewife if you're that's all great
00:25:30
Michael Knowlesthat's awesome but so if what you're saying is doing your current job is preventing you from doing that shouldn't the first thing you do be to quit that job no why not I'm young I was in a
00:25:41
Nicolletrelationship for seven years from like 15 to 22 so I just want to like experience the single life and I like it so I'm going to keep doing it I I just I thought I thought what you were saying was I I do want to date someone and I do
00:25:55
Michael Knowleswant to be a housewife and I do want someone I want someone to cook for so if you want those things then that means you probably don't want the single stripper life because those things are mutually opposed right yeah I think I'll probably like date in my
00:26:10
Michael Knowles30s is that a little that's kind of putting it off a while right don't you want like have kids and you know not right now no 30s it's tougher to have kids in your 30s I'm
00:26:21
Brian Atlasfertile you did say that uh you would be if I have it correct you would be willing to date if the man was prepared to
00:26:30
Brian Atlasprovide for for your lifestyle yeah well what I mean what are we talking here in terms of numbers he's got to make how much well if I'm going to be like a stay-at-home like wife I'm going to need
00:26:42
Nicolletlike my car payment all my bills like hair makeup basically like everything and that cost a lot and no one like does it what if your husband said you don't
00:26:53
Michael Knowlesneed all that stuff then he's not the right guy man for her you've already got the guy though so why continue with the yeah what why do you need to get your hair done if you already got that the
00:27:04
Michael Knowlespoint of getting your hair done right is to go like meet a nice guy no to look good for my guy if I had one right but if he's saying well I I just don't have the cash so you you might have to skip
00:27:15
Nicolletyour twice a week sorry babe I'm going to spread my holes on the
00:27:22
Michael Knowlesinternet fa enough that's straight up yeah my wife's never said that to me you know but but then again I don't tell her she can't go to the hair appointment so how about that
00:27:37
Brian Atlasyeah um before we move on here I had that video that I wanted to pull up so Nick if you're able to pull it up did you find
00:27:48
Brian Atlasit go ahead oh wait yeah go ahead go yeah it's fine it's fine let let the audio play go ahead
00:28:01
Brian Atlas[Music] so that look funny that's so funny okay okay okay has that been your
00:28:11
Naomi Lynnexperience on dates with women um I sent that video to my best friend but no okay all right do you feel like who invites you should pay or like whoever is the one that like comes up with the plan cuz
00:28:22
SophieI kind of feel that way in general I feel like that's just kind of courtesy invite my man I'd be like okay like I could pay if like yeah I think that if I invited you somewhere you yeah I think that if I were to take the time
00:28:35
Sophieto plan out a date and decide what we were doing and where we were going I definitely feel obligated to pay um in your last relationship who paid who paid for the most of the things would you say in my last relationship um
00:28:47
Mia Huffmanmy ex fiance paid for most of the things I'd say I also feel like in lesbian relationships there's always someone that is a little more the masculine partner and a little more the feminine partner I do agree with that um but in most of my relationships and all of them
00:28:59
Sophieactually I've been the more feminine one and in most of my relationships I've paid for more and taken on that role interesting really I we won't linger too long on the who should pay debate but
00:29:09
Brian Atlasyou mentioned that well whoever pay whoever asks ought to pay uh so going around the table who agrees with that whoever asks they should they should pay for for the date I think that's I don't
00:29:21
Naomi Lynnthink like ought to but like if if I I don't know if I invite my man like I would just well let's say first let's let's talk a man got to pay for the first dat man got to pay for the first dat if he's pursuing me and taking me
00:29:33
Maddieout yeah if I'm on a first date and they look at me like pay this I'm walking out I'm walking out you're walking you w hear from me again I'm done and you can say and figure that out for yourself
00:29:45
Brian Atlasthat's not my business to handle like sorry uh wait so just okay going around the table I just want to get everybody's answer who should the guy definitely okay the man I answered mine wait was
00:29:57
Cindy Zangwas out always though you just restate your yeah you know how I feel but was wait well I I want to get everybody's an I wouldn't say I was just clarifying not always I feel like once you guys get to
00:30:07
Cindy Zangknow each other um we could like go split half you know half and half uh but I feel like the guys I've dated they've always wanted to pay for me they would
00:30:20
Maddienever be like oh like they would never let me pay okay you know what I mean mhm if I plann something and I said I wanted to here I want to bring you here and I want to do this I'm going to pay for
00:30:30
Nicolletthat but any other way sure it's on you yeah nichette so I'm not going to pay the man should pay whether it it's the first date or the 10th date unless we're
00:30:42
Madison Vulike you know dating for a while like exclusively then like we can split sometimes Sure Mia what about you I think on the first date yes the man should pay I also think that if it is just a long-term relationship then yes
00:30:55
Madison Vuyou guys can share payments and share share that I think that's just the overall just you don't I'm not a housewife I can afford my bills so do men like when you kind of like treat them sometimes you're like I got you babe no not really I don't I mean I
00:31:09
Naomi Lynndon't know I'm married so it's not like I'm going on dates and stuff but I mean maybe if they're broke I def for a little on this I feel like that could be cute once in a while like why don't you don't don't go on dates why do you not go on dates because I'm I'm married and
00:31:20
Naomi Lynnmy wife would object to that she probably wouldn't wouldn't take kindly to I thought you were making content together I'm going to I know I I
00:31:28
Michael Knowlesappreciate the offer I yeah but I I must decline um so I you know I go like my wife and I go to dinner I get but I I wouldn't call that like a date you know I'm not going to go I'm not like picking
00:31:40
Michael Knowlesup a chick but making content together doesn't mean dating well my wife and I don't make content together either you know I I kind of do my podcast a it's I'm offering like a work
00:31:51
Michael Knowlesyou're like my work partner you and I are work Partners again I mean listen I I'm going to have to clear it with uh uh my domestic partner back home I don't think she's going to take very happily
00:32:02
Michael Knowlesto it but but even when we were dating I my wife would offer to pay but I just I don't like it you know I feel it feels kind of gay you know yeah it it feels
00:32:12
Michael Knowleslike I'm you know I'm the man and even at points in my life where I haven't had a lot of money I still feel like the man should hold the door hold the car door hold the restaurant door pull the seat
00:32:22
Brian Atlasout and pay for theill chivalry who says it's dead not me okay and then so on the conversational thread we were having I think it was one
00:32:32
Brian Atlasof you two who said well whoever asks they should pay right yeah okay and so uh who who agrees with that maybe just show of hands whoever asks should pay or
00:32:44
Maddieyou is it a long-term relationship like first dat first dat first date yeah oh first date man sorry you got to clarify Brian but I'm not asking a man on a date yeah I'm not asking a man on a first date yeah that that's my kind of re to
00:32:57
Brian Atlasthe whoever I should pay because it sort of ignores the fact that in the vast majority of circumstances the man is yeah um okay so there's a couple threads
00:33:07
Brian AtlasI wanted to just wrap on here quick but um so all of you it sounded like want the man to pay for the first date correct mm okay except well you don't really date men so you didn't weigh on
00:33:22
Brian Atlasyou might probably not if if you did though would you want the man okay not necessarily fair enough but you uh just a question for you you don't do uh adult
00:33:32
Brian Atlascontent at all do you no okay but all besides Madison and Michael and myself everyone else here does do adult content
00:33:42
Brian Atlasto varing degrees of uh nudity I guess you could say um my question for you then is you have a rather traditional
00:33:52
Brian Atlasexpectation of men but please don't be offended uh I would argue that being involved in uh pornography pornography is rather non-traditional so why do you
00:34:04
Brian Atlashow do you reconcile expecting traditional treatment from men when you guys are engaged in very non-traditional uh a very non-traditional occupation and behavior it's
00:34:16
Naomi Lynnwork so for me originally I actually worked in the tech industry for two and a half years and I was doing only fans on the low um Naomi is not my legal name and I just did that because didn't want
00:34:27
Naomi Lynnto get fired cuz I was pretty high up in a tech company and then I just decided one day I was like why am I making people millions of dollars when I can make myself millions of I'm not asking you to justify why you do the work that
00:34:37
Naomi Lynnyou do I'm asking why you have I I I I would assume that you would not categorize yourselves as traditional women I was my point was like I was
00:34:50
Naomi Lynntraditional no one knew about this other side of me right so how long have you been doing only fans uh like a year okay so my question is is that you're not
00:35:02
Madison Vunone of you are traditional women yet you have very traditional expectations of men how do you reconcile that I think for myself I've been in long-term relationships alongside my job and how I
00:35:13
Madison Vureconciled with that was simply being very upfront with the realities that I was going to always make more income in that relationship and for that reason is why I say with long-term relationships I
00:35:26
Madison Vuwouldn't expect that man to pay for everything and I know that you agree that men should be paying for most everything and I do agree that depending on the type of circumstances of that relationship and who they are that can happen as well so my relationship to
00:35:38
Madison Vutraditional relationships is not exactly as they're seeing it out as but I know for some a lot of girls like to expect a traditional relationship but reality hits we're not traditional girls we do only fans we do all these other things
00:35:50
Michael Knowlesbut you could just stop yeah we and then you can just do the traditional thing and find this Like You Know Rich Mac Daddy you yeah and he can pay for your hair and then you don't do the other thing well I do want to go around the
00:36:00
Cindy Zangtable on this cuz that was a question that was po posed generally but to all of you so Cindy how do you reconcile I think the man should definitely provide
00:36:10
Cindy Zangin a relationship and it women should not be involved in pornography I'm not even involved like I don't make por I don't make um like if you subscribe to me I'm I'm not I
00:36:22
Cindy Zangactually don't and pornham actually reached out to me last time because you said that in the video that went viral um I'm not like I'm not on PornHub I don't do that kind of content
00:36:34
Cindy Zangum but going back to the question like yeah I think the guy should provide been like that um the guy the man chases after the girl MH so it's been like that
00:36:45
Cindy Zangit's always going to be like that and it doesn't matter if you do only fans if you're a sexy model on the internet um it's not not always what it seems
00:36:58
Cindy Zangonce you get to know the actual woman and talk to her like we are right now then you'll actually get to know her it's not always like um sexualizing a
00:37:08
Madison Vuwoman because she's like you know she's hot and like you know oh well I kind of I'm not sure if that really okay sorry I was going to say I kind of align with what you're trying to say is it's kind
00:37:21
Madison Vuof a mask per se I don't like saying that especially on camera but our identities as these girls as adult girls is that we are these super hypersexual beings and that's not
00:37:32
Madison Vualways the reality that's not our actual identities some of us don't even have the same names so I think that's where it kind of carries out into our personal lives and our private lives are very traditional as opposed to the untraditional ways that we present
00:37:45
Madison Vuoursel online the Persona online but because of that we obviously like I like myself I include that into my relationships there is a reality for myself for others perhaps not but is it really possible to like split yourself
00:37:57
Michael Knowlesup into two people I mean you could have a a stage name and a real name and in your stage Persona you're one way and in your real life you're another way but you know you're one person not two different people just the perception of how people see us online versus how we
00:38:09
Michael Knowlesare but I think that's to Brian's point when you're dating someone with two different identities you're both you're both of those people right and I guess you're going to be more one or the other or you're just going to be you're going
00:38:18
Michael Knowlesto be an individual so so uh the the stage Persona might start to in infringe upon the reality and so would that change your expectations of the kind of guys you'd be dating or
00:38:30
Maddiehow you how you would behave with them for me my ex was the only person I ever made content with like in that way like to the furthest extent of content I guess um no one else have I ever made
00:38:43
Michael Knowlescontent on that level with everything else is just me you know it's so crazy to think about the way we all talk today is ordinarily what you'd be saying is we
00:38:53
Michael Knowlesmade love but we we're such a capital FAL istic materialist decadent Society I say you know my ex he and I we were so close we made content together it was the deepest content ever you know it's
00:39:05
Michael Knowlesjust something's really gone wrong in our society hasn't there that cuz really you should just be making love and making babies these guys I agree but the money is something that I really hopped on and wasn't willing to walk away from
00:39:17
Sophieit's very tempting if I can support myself and the people in my life that's all I that's all I ask for can I say something I think that um not even I don't even do content or anything but I
00:39:29
Sophiethink we should treat people that do the same as we treat actors like we don't judge them for the movies or the roles they play in movies or anything because the money is good we do we not you know I mean they're a little bit different
00:39:40
Sophiehistorically speaking actors have been considered in the same class as like criminals and prostitutes well I in my personal opin I don't look at a role my favorite actor plays and say I don't like this role so I don't like this person it's
00:39:53
Sophiekind of just like they're doing it for the money and they're doing it for the content and I think it's the same with only fans no no sure I understand that there were like these you put on an Mas and you do so what do you think about
00:40:04
Brian Atlasthat what do you think Brian well look let's um I I think you're you're trying to make a point of something in a broader sense but I'm talking on an interperson
00:40:15
Brian Atlasinterpersonal relationship level so for example you could have and I'll open this up to the whole panel but I'll start with you would you object to a man who perhaps he has actually no issue
00:40:26
Brian Atlaswith a woman being engaged professionally with uh producing adult content he has no problem with it no judgment of it however when it comes to
00:40:36
Brian Atlashis personal life and who he chooses to partner with and date he does object to dating someone who has nude photographs of themselves on the Internet for whatever reasons those may be he's not
00:40:48
Brian Atlashe's not uh outwardly judgmental about it but when it comes to his personal preferences and who he wants to date marry whatever it may be he does not want to date a woman who does only fans
00:41:00
Sophieor does porn do you object to that preference no I think everyone has different preferences and everyone should have the right to decide that for himself okay but then then that man would be
00:41:11
Naomi Lynnjudging no that's a personal preference there's a pool for everybody that's why I believe if there's a group of guys who's not okay with adult content like then that's not the guy for me so it's cool you don't want to date me I don't
00:41:22
Maddiewant to date you just as much that's how I see it I think the right one for you you guys will come to a common ground together in the end but right now I mean we're all single we can all really do
00:41:34
Michael Knowleswhatever we want without the feedback of a partner sure is it possible though that if if you didn't do what you do that you could get a better husband
00:41:45
Michael Knowlessomeday is it possible that the kind of guy who you might want to marry is the kind of guy who who wouldn't want his wife to be uh you know in the sexual industry not for for me I think it
00:41:57
Madison Vudepends on your standard of quality and what better actually is so if you're ident if you identify as better in a man would be somebody who is completely religious or is completely conservative or somebody
00:42:09
Michael Knowleswho is completely against pornography in general then better might be very very large and different what if it's even more basic just like a guy who he's more faithful to you he's better at raising the kids he makes more money he is more
00:42:22
Maddieresponsible if I met the right guy and he didn't want me to do this anymore and we were going to be together I'd quit quit I'd be done I'd be done but that's not where I'm at in life right now like I respect that I think everyone that
00:42:33
Maddiewould be hard as as a partner watching your partner online and for everyone else to see like I don't doubt that that's hard so is it possible though that what you're doing now is preventing
00:42:43
Michael Knowlesyou from meeting that guy cuz that guy maybe wouldn't even look at your kind of content right so is it possible that if you quit right now you say I want you know it's like dress for the job you want right I you say I'm going to quit right now and I'm going to go do
00:42:56
Michael Knowlessomething else and I'm going to go put myself in places where I'm more likely to meet that guy Mr Wright who wouldn't want me to be doing this stuff you know is it are we not reversing the order of the way things might happen I hear what
00:43:08
Maddieyou're saying and I agree with you to to a sense but I think I think the guy for me is going to be the guy for me in the end and I don't need to change what I'm doing right now for him I think
00:43:20
Madison Vufor sorry I think for a lot of us at least for my sense is I prefer a partner who's understanding and with transparency so if they're willing to understand the reasonings that I chose
00:43:32
Madison Vuto do my job and chose my occupation and have continued it for so long then I think that's the perfect partner for me not everybody is going to understand and not everybody that does understand is perfect for me but eventually one day just as she's saying is that person may
00:43:45
Madison Vucome around and that might be the perfect fit but I don't think that everybody is possibly perfect even if they don't appreciate or are accepting what I've done in the past so for that reason I think it just comes around obviously yes if we all lost our jobs
00:43:58
Madison Vuand we all chose to leave it yes there'd be a larger percentage of men or women who are willing to be with us obviously she doesn't perform this type of work but regardless I think as well just
00:44:09
Madison Vubecause we continue to do this to today then I think most of us would prefer somebody who is understanding and passionate for our decisions because you're put you're putting the job before the larger pool
00:44:21
Madison Vupotentially of guys you I think it's also because that can show more of a istic value as opposed to the Simplicity of oh so she left it great now I can finally hop in because now she's out of
00:44:32
Michael Knowlesthat system not necessarily that's what you're saying but no it's not I guess it would I guess if you quit it would probably reflect a change in your point of view about it and it's kind of what I I don't know when I was a younger man back in my youth I was more of a
00:44:45
Michael Knowlesderelict and did all sorts of things I shouldn't do and mercifully I married my wife who's much more virtuous than I am but that required me to become a little bit bit
00:44:56
Michael Knowlesmore virtuous you know like I actually wasn't really deserving of my wife and you know so I worked on certain things and like parted less and you know like stop stop Behaving Badly Mo for the most part and so it's not like we're all just
00:45:09
Michael Knowlesstatic right it's not all just like well the man for me is going to take me exactly as I am like I don't know I'm not perfect I got to work on all sorts of things every single day so wouldn't the same be true for for all of you yeah completely 100% I suppose I think one
00:45:20
Naomi Lynnthing that was interesting was like you said something about being in the right place or different places if we weren't in this work I just don't agree with that because I do look at it as work I think all of us look at it as work yeah
00:45:32
Naomi Lynnso like just a certain type of work pool wise yes there's a different dating pool for us as sex workers but I disagree that we wouldn't be like you're
00:45:43
Michael Knowlesreligious right pretty religious okay so like if do you think sex workers like they're contradicting themselves by being religious I'm not personally religious but no well you know our Lord did dine with prostitutes and uh but but
00:45:56
Michael Knowlesthat's not an endorsement of prostitution right so I don't I know I I I think probably what often it could be hypocrisy it could be that you say one thing and preach another and you don't really believe what you're saying if you're say a a prostitute or a porn
00:46:09
Michael Knowlesactress and you um say you're Christian but what it probably more likely is is you recogn something in your mind has changed and you recognize that there's something good here that I should follow but you know the body is kind of slow to
00:46:21
Michael Knowlesfollow and you like the money and you're kind of used to doing this and there's a fear of what might happen next and you're not even totally convinced and because we're we're not just brains floating in outer space and we're not just bodies as unfortunately the sex
00:46:33
Michael Knowlesindustry would portray us to be but we're both of those things and so it creates a bit of a cognitive dissonance and then one is going to win out over the other and one hopes it would be the uh better alternative so I guess that's
00:46:45
Naomi Lynnanother thing that I wanted to ask you to for clarification so if we were to end sex work right for us if I were to quit would I have to be like oh that was a bad idea like I regret it like or could I possibly just be like it doesn't
00:46:58
Michael Knowlesmake me happy anymore yeah you could quit and say I'm just quitting because you know it's Tuesday and I feel like quitting you could do that that's fine I suspect that what would happen over time is as you you know people are always
00:47:11
Michael Knowlesmoving you're always growing you know you grow or you die and so uh you'll continue to think things and your thoughts will change and very likely if you are impelled to leave that kind of work because you have just an inclination that it might be better for
00:47:24
Michael Knowlesyou if you get out probably over time you're going to look back and say huh you know probably shouldn't have done that not the proudest thing I've ever done but you know that's why pencils have erasers and I'm very glad that I can be absolved of my sins and we move
00:47:36
Michael Knowleson all sin and fall short of the glory of God that's probably what would happen but if the first thing you got to do is just say like eh I don't want to do it I'm out it's yucky eh whatever like cool that's fine but does it have to be yucky
00:47:47
Naomi Lynnthat's my point or not even yucky yucky is too yck to because I said I'm not religious I was raised Roman Catholic but I'm I'm not religious I was an atheist for 10 years so you know you don't have to convince me but
00:47:59
Michael Knowlesbut yeah that's fine if there's just like some little inclination in you that says like H something's just not quite feeling sitting right here yeah just follow that you don't have to reason about everything you know you can just kind of follow your gut your gut is
00:48:11
Naomi Lynnoften going to lead you in a decent Direction and then you apply reason after that and you say okay was that a good choice or a bad choice yeah I just wanted to clarify cuz like the stigma behind sex work is like it's bad right everyone just says like it's bad but
00:48:23
Michael Knowlesit's not good it's not I wouldn't say it's good but uh I think it's good do do you really though I mean the way you ask the question makes me suggest you perhaps you have some doubt about that yeah I mean I worked in corporate I had
00:48:35
Naomi Lynnthat lifestyle and I compare that to how I live my life now I'm way happier now and people don't like to believe that I think it makes them really mad when I say that but like my lifestyle now like I'm My Own Boss not constantly on by other people I mean yeah I'm
00:48:48
Michael Knowlesconstantly in the wait constantly on by other people but I'm happy I'm like genuinely happy perhaps I you know I I do believe you that you that you feel that way at least a lot of the time
00:48:58
Michael Knowlesthe thing is if that weren't the case then uh bad things wouldn't be tempting like of course bad things do give they give you a sort of euphoria actually for a period of time but the longer term
00:49:09
Michael Knowlesconsequences of that like for instance forestalling meeting Mr Wright and you know uh perhaps forestalling having a family or carrying with it some kind of stigma that is natural and is probably never going away uh as long as Society
00:49:21
Michael Knowlescontinue to continues to exist you know yeah these are difficult choices that if there weren't Temptation no one would do it right I appreciate that I also have like
00:49:34
Mia Huffmana genuine question about something you said earlier and I I do want to hear from like everyone else here also but um I think it's like 100% valid that you said like you you in a relationship is a completely different person from what
00:49:47
Mia Huffmanyou present yourself to be online and I just wanted to like ask um why would you want to present yourself to the whole world like someone that that you aren't I think it really depends I um it
00:49:59
Madison Vudepends on who I was then when I initiated which I was 18 um and who I am now and who I've developed into being so at that time when I was 18 I was a lot
00:50:10
Madison Vumore freeing in the sense that I was trying to like get out of the house I was trying to move away from my mom and for that reason I had a different identity just as anybody does when
00:50:20
Madison Vuthey're 18 and in addition to that I wouldn't want to present myself entirely as somebody who is so open about either her ass or her tits or whatever else as
00:50:30
Madison VuI do online for the growth of either income or fans but I do think that it does help me in the sense of I've gotten confidence in it I've gained extreme amounts of confidence I've also become
00:50:43
Madison Vuvery happy from it the fruition that it's brought on to me from doing this type of work is beautiful it's just so much just like Freedom it's been a lot of financial gain obviously but it's not something that I'd want anybody else to
00:50:55
Madison Vualso experience I don't think that like why not yeah I wouldn't recommend it to most girls because it's not good unfortunately do disar I don't think it's good I think it's actually not good at all but I think it does bring
00:51:06
Madison Vugoodness I think it can bring goodness BR I think it brings Financial Freedom it gives you money there's no one's disputing that's all it is but it's not going to bring good I think it it's it's a disgusting addiction for a lot of people it's a disgusting world
00:51:19
Maddiefor a lot of people and also the perspectives that we all have on men after seeing go to disagree with that sorry I disagree alsoe of course I just think like I
00:51:30
Madison Vudisagree also yeah well I totally agree I think you that was a great answer I just I just think it varies I think I love what I do I'm not saying that I hate what I do I absolutely love what I you kind of do no I don't it's good to
00:51:42
Cindy Zangacknowledge both sides of I acknowledge both because you're basically saying like oh it's not good like you're contradicting yourself I'm not like if you watch this over again you'll you'll see that you're contradicting yourself
00:51:54
Cindy Zangyou said that um It's a Good Financial game but then you said something can have AIT and a risk as well yeah no you you clarify right which you said it gives you good money but it's not a good thing I think
00:52:06
Maddieshe's saying I think she's saying mentally it can have a toll on you but financially it's very freeing and I think I'm mentally everyone's different so you mentally can feel totally different than
00:52:17
Michael Knowleshow she can feel and then how I can feel and how she can feel so so I totally agree with you you're obviously totally right so if it if but you're getting a lot of money and money is great and listen there have been periods where I
00:52:28
Michael Knowlesmade a lot of money and I like buying nice suits so that's great but is money ever worth it if you're doing something that you're saying is intrinsically bad it it messes with my psyche there's a there's a degree in which I go with it
00:52:41
Maddiethough to allow myself to feel like this is where I'm going to draw the line yeah of course and then the line kind of moves often in these sorts of things no my line was drawn at the beginning and was never moved past that that's good so like for me that's that I don't know for
00:52:53
Nicolleteveryone else and it's not just about Mone some people just like being a do they do they really I do do you so do a lot of other girls I do enjoy it no you don't what do
00:53:04
Nicolletyou enjoy um I like the attention I just like you like the attention you you like looking pretty and getting ha pleasure sure y Everyone likes sexual pleasure but does that it's not just about the money but couldn't you you know if you
00:53:17
Michael Knowlesgot married you would get all of those things you get a much better version you'd get better uh sexual pleasure and sexual pleasure brought to fruition you you would get someone paying for your hair so you would look pretty and you get plenty of
00:53:28
Michael Knowlesattention from a man who actually loves you instead of a man who's using you and men who you in are using but I just don't want to be married right now like I just want to like play the field and be a hoe but you said you said you're
00:53:40
Nicolletnot really dating anyone you're not I'm not but you know there's some hot guys out there they're out there but you're not dating them this is only like the past like few months so I've been busy but hey I'm not opposed to if like a hot
00:53:52
Nicolletguy with like a nice um account bank account said bank account nice package comes around and knows how to use it like then yeah like let's do
00:54:03
Michael Knowlesit dude but what about what you just said on how it's a bad addiction for most people I think it is a bad addiction for some people do you feel bad about leading guys or encouraging this addiction I do and the only reason
00:54:16
Madison Vuis because I've worked on this for three years and not to highlight too much of what's happened in my personal life recently but my personal life and my business life or my sex work life unfortunately has really crossed paths
00:54:28
Madison Vunot because oh people want to sleep with me or anything like that because of my job but if anything people become stalkers and people become addicts to who you are online and that's happened really obsessively for me in the past
00:54:41
Nicollettwo weeks that could happen anywhere though like I was like a waitress and I had stalkers then as well but I don't think it's bad I justad at a stalker no I'm saying like the industry and doing
00:54:52
Nicolletlike sex work it's not bad you can have an addiction to to literally anything and I would argue that it's actually a good thing for some people to be addicted to pornography no just porn in
00:55:03
Nicolletgeneral but I they just have like the biggest you don't no I don't they were just like the biggest conventions for porn I attended both and there's a lot of people who you know have disabilities
00:55:16
Nicolletand maybe they can't go out in the real life and like meet girls so they like to have that one-on-one connection and get that experience with the woman on only fans and it makes them really
00:55:27
Michael Knowleshappy and I love meeting them and you know they're not like these creepy guys you know they are creepy guys every one of them every single one they are because they're they're engaging in a
00:55:39
Michael Knowlestotally self-directed sexual act and they're making an idol out of you so I have a question have you ever watched porn uh you know listen I was an atheist for 10 years I was single dated some
00:55:50
Michael Knowlesgirls so we we can say that you're creepy too if you're going to say everyone watch it is certainly a creepy act to look at pornography yeah masturbating is like so normal it's well there's two meanings of the word normal there's normal like everyone does it and
00:56:03
Michael Knowlesthere's normal like a standard that you would like a norm you know and so it's normal in the sense that a lot of people not everyone but a lot of people do it but it's not good right no no one's proud no one ever writes home hey Mom do you know what I did this weekend you
00:56:15
Madison Vuknow it's very shameful because it's disordered and unnatural it's so natural you think yeah I think sorry I think I think the sexual arrive to like either have sex with either one other person or
00:56:29
Madison Vuwhatever your preference is or by yourself is natural yes it's very very natural you have sexual drives that's why we go through puberty I don't think it's necessarily fully natural to go kin
00:56:39
Madison Vuto pornography every single day and all these things that's what I understand you sound like you need to quit the industry the sex industry I thought you were you were looking at me when you said that okay I don't hate like I
00:56:52
Cindy Zangabsolutely love what I do and I love the connections I sound like you do I really do I think she's being very considerate I'm just I'm very considerate of just like the facts of but like when you love something you are passionate about
00:57:03
Cindy Zangsomething right now like me and her and maybe other girls that are actually passionate about our work we can sense that you are not all about it there like I've shared I'm only going to share so little of it but when you're faced with
00:57:16
Madison Vua lot of the repercussions of those relationships then you can call me and tell me that I hate my job but I don't hate my job I don't hate it at all I am just un in a really bad circumstance where my safety is in Jeopardy but