HEATED Debate With Man Hating Feminist?! IG Model KICKED OUT! | Dating Talk #122

Date: 2023-11-29

Duration: 6h 34m

Guests

Brian Atlas

KKiki (co-host DT126)>

FFarah Khalidi >

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_04Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_05Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_06Yamani/Lena(guest)

SPEAKER_07Fara Khalji(guest)

SPEAKER_08Mera(guest)

SPEAKER_09Yamani(guest)

SPEAKER_10Kiki(host)

SPEAKER_11Macy(guest)

SPEAKER_12Haley Herms(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteMacy recounts father placing gun in her hand at his own head at age 17

“he tried to have me murder him and like my best friend we like almost all died... he put a gun in my hand to have me try to kill him and was like holding my hand with the gun in his head”

Key MomentFara states she would let humanity go extinct rather than restrict LGBT rights

“I stated that I'm prioritizing autonomy over a utilitarian conception of prolonging the human race”

QuoteFara reveals 2020 suicide attempt during philosophical debate about autonomy

“my last suicide attempt was in 2020 let's not get into that”

ControversyMera calls Andrew's population replacement argument 'Hitler-like'

“you trying to replace the society that sounds like some Hitler that that's crazy”

ControversyBrian repeatedly insists Mera has fake breasts; she denies emphatically multiple times

“I don't know how many times I have to say this to you Brian you have... I already told you it's not true but you keep making me”

ControversyHaley claims you can't be racist against white people; Brian calls this statement itself racist

“I just don't think you can be racist against white people”

QuoteHaley reveals former sugar baby history and using OnlyFans earnings for Catholic grandmother's $25k funeral

“I used the money to pay for my Catholic grandmother's funeral”

OtherBrian kicks Mera off the show near the end (~6h31m) for persistent disruptive behavior

“bro get the [expletive] off the show leave just get up leave get up leave this is she's been one of the most disruptive guests we've ever had”

Topics Discussed

Introductions and relationship statuses

Guests introduce themselves with name, age, occupation, location. Then relationship status round. Mera (refuses to reveal age, ~33, Sherman Oaks, Twitch streamer, 4-year single 'boy phase'). Haley Herms (28, LA, plus-size model). Fara Khalji (24, Miami, content creator). Yamani (27, LA, bottle service/clothing). Lena (25, Delaware, OnlyFans). Macy (27, Mobile AL, insurance adjuster, married). Andrew Wilson (debate host, mechanical engineer, married 10+ years). Kiki (co-host).

Boy stage, terminology, and promiscuity norms

Discussion of the term 'boy phase' vs 'slut' for women. Whether men wife up promiscuous women. Debate on societal double standards for body count between men and women.

Kiki's relationship status and consent contract

Kiki describes 'complicated' status: met someone before China trip, gave him a written contract of negotiables/non-negotiables. He is still reviewing while she was away. Discussion of relationship contracts.

Mera's 100 dates in 2 months

Brian probes Mera about going on 100 dates in 2 months without finding anyone. Mera describes looking for connection and authentic experience. Discussion of age, fertility, egg freezing, and what she is actually looking for.

Guns and second amendment discussion

Panel asked if a man owning a gun is positive/neutral/negative. Andrew endorses gun ownership enthusiastically. Macy shares traumatic story of father holding gun to own head with her hand on it at age 17.

Yamani: men paying for her time off from bottle service

Yamani says men frequently offer to pay her bottle service wages (~$500+) to skip work and go on dates. Discussion of implications and transactional dating.

Feminist debate: promiscuity, population replacement, and autonomy

Andrew and Mera debate: does promiscuity harm society? Population replacement argument. Mera calls Andrew's replacement language 'Hitler-like' (misunderstanding). Extended hypothetical: would you let humanity go extinct to preserve autonomy/LGBT rights? Andrew says he would restrict certain behaviors to prevent extinction. Fara says she prioritizes autonomy over prolonging the human species.

Monogamy, nuclear family, and societal outcomes

Andrew argues monogamy and nuclear family optimal for children and society. Mera and Fara push back on imposing relationship structures. Discussion of women initiating 80% of divorces, stepfather risk data. Haley describes herself as socialist/feminist but Traditional Values in personal relationships.

Haley on communism and socialism

Haley describes herself as socialist with interest in communism. Discussion of whether communism works (small-scale communes vs large scale). Andrew argues communism requires compelled service. Haley defends communism as theoretical Utopia. Discussion of inflation, millennials, affordability of nuclear family.

Self-ratings (looks 1-10)

Panel rates own looks. Haley: 10 in fat community, 7.5 in society. Lena: 10 (confidence 10, societal 7-8). Brian: 5 (gained weight). Andrew: 6. Mera: 10. Yamani and Fara also 10. Rating round devolves into debate about fat attraction and political messaging.

Ideal sex frequency

Each guest shares ideal sex frequency. Mera: 2-4 times per day. Haley: once or twice a day. Mera reveals she takes birth control to reduce her high sex drive.

Haley's plus-size model career and OnlyFans content

Discussion of fat attraction, Andrew vs Haley debate over whether attraction to plus-size women is genuine or fetish. Haley claims shredded men are her top DMs. Her OnlyFans revenue from weigh-in/eating videos. Used OnlyFans earnings to pay for Catholic grandmother's $25k funeral.

Cosmetic procedures round

Brian asks who has had cosmetic procedures. Mera: deviated septum fix as child, lip filler yearly. Brian insists Mera has fake breasts; she denies multiple times.

Body count discussion

Body count round started. Andrew says he wouldn't be surprised if some women don't know their count. Discussion of double standards for high body count men vs women. Fara argues pair bonding applies more to women than men. Debate on whether men with high body counts are hypocritical for wanting low body count women.

Former sugar baby (Haley)

Haley reveals she had sugar daddy arrangements until age 22 (stopped after mother died). Charged $700 for date, $2500+ for time afterward. Total per visit $700-$5000. Had 2-3 sugar daddies, was intimate with 2. Dropped one after he revealed racist beliefs.

Mera kicked off show

Brian asks Mera to leave after she gets up from table and is disruptive. Cites her being obtuse, not staying seated, moving around repeatedly throughout show. Andrew notes timing was comedic (2 min before show end).

Transcript

Page 2 of 7

Andrew Wilsonself-defense like what if someone was manslaughter okay yeah it wouldn't even be manslaughter so it it would self-defense would be an opposition to murder which so self-defense would be a

Haley HermsJustified taking of a life and uh murder would be the unjustified but if you still kill someone you still kill someone so like what would word be I'm trying to Google this hold on

Andrew Wilsonmurderer in if I were to go out and with my hunting rifle and kill a deer do you think I murdered it technically te you think I murdered it yeah or so if I ate it then is it Justified or is it still

Brian Atlasmurder what I don't know I'm a pescaterian I think well I think so technically yes so murder is the unlawful killing so what would you is there a name for somebody who kills

Brian Atlassomebody like is there a term for somebody who kills somebody but it's not murder well there's all sorts of different ones it's aggravated assault right well let's not get that we don't

Brian Atlasneed I'm derailing the conversation um reduced to something so just killing fine with fine with guns I think it sounded like you're as long as they're not murderer okay what about you I'm

Macyfine with guns like maybe a regular I don't know handgun or something for self-defense okay also fine with guns um my Garrett

Macyhunts all the time we just left we were just at his hunting camp for like a week over Thanksgiving so very familiar wait

Yamani/Lenajust just a question for you um so you said a handgun uh what about a just a semi-automatic rifle why I'm not sure it

Yamani/Lenaall depends on the situation if it could be justified then what if I told you what what about okay a semi-automatic

Brian Atlasweapon I'm not sure like a handgun right which was I a handgun is a a semi-automatic weapon well some of them are yeah yeah not all of them I'm not

TTS/Donationsvery familiar with term we know oh okay we got RAV DT donated $200 justifiable hom the term is justifiable homicide but

Brian Atlaswhat what would is there a name for the person like is there a term for somebody who's killed somebody it just kill her oh manslaughter no no no it's not

Brian Atlasmanaugh anyways it doesn't really it doesn't really matter um we have a chat here from hold on I'm GNA wait till this one the term is one sec it's coming up

Brian Atlasit's from Aiden smash she Myra want to get a viral clip to get even more simps in her only fans she's full of time to Castle her

Brian Atlascastle Are you full of mea Myra yes you're full of are you teaching me how to pronounce my own name no I'm just terrible with name so I'm going to probably continue to butcher it throughout the rest of the show but don't take it

Brian Atlaspersonally okay bran what's that you heard me because I mispronounced your name yes this is war This Is War oh my God this

Brian Atlasgirl okay this girl um what do you guys think chat chat what do you guys think what do you guys think

Brian Atlaschat well back to the other question what does the chat think they're teeming she's like like

Brian Atlaswait oh hold on I'm reading the chat here what do you guys think chat is this a kick I don't know um uh we'll let it

Brian Atlasslide but like can you relax a little bit can you help me relax why are you being like is that is that like a good faith

Meraquestion or you just being obnoxious I'm just used to streaming on Twitch that's usually how it goes similar um

Fara Khaljientertainment what's entertaining how she hasn't seen this show this is her first podcast appear and she's not familiar with the way you structure the flow what do you mean what's structure

Fara Khaljishe's not she's not trying to obstruct she's trying to she thinks this is you think your content how normal people have a conversation though just out of curiosity you want me to deem her abnormal for no but remember in the

Fara Khaljibeginning when they like trying to have a good normal flowed conversation that's the point I think she wants to talk about certain topics she just doesn't want to disclose certain details about her identity I think that's fair yeah

Brian Atlasthat's fair okay all right moving on um all right let's get into uh some of the notes here um let me I don't get the gun question oh sorry I don't get the gun question was it directed it

Brian Atlasmight have just been directed at the women but uh and what about would you date a murderer I'm curious to hear everyone's answers no criminality in women is incredibly unattractive so no I

Andrew Wilsonwould not go ahead uh yeah to the gun question did you want yeah yeah yeah just guns are awesome and single capacity and people should own lots of them what is your favorite gun for me I

Andrew Wilsonlike ak-40 for what reason uh well because they have um I like the payload that the AK-47 delivers to the Target he likes the payload what do you

Andrew Wilsonusually use as a Target uh I don't know like uh small clay pigeons clay then I paint obnoxious women's faces on

Andrew Wilsonthem he's kidding I'm just it's joking J okay yeah that was funny

SPEAKER_01wait hold on you don't call people retards it's bad taste call your friends retards when they're acting ableism is okay off of twitch

Brian Atlasit's not a Communist dictatorship yeah it would have been banned on Twitch for that some wor actually wasn't my friend said that it was M it was uh Michael Scott who said it not not anybody at the table so it's okay all right let's get

Brian Atlasinto some of the pre-show questions here or some some of the notes that you guys provided for me so uh yamani you said uh someone has paid me to take off of work and go on a

Brian Atlasdate that is pretty normal for a lot of girls in La um so we have a couple girls here who I you live in LA correct

Brian AtlasSherman is that La I think that's LA county or is it V is that Ventura County no it's la La I live county is it LA County okay it's La uh you're in La you're in La you're in

Brian AtlasLa is that common yeah dude's paying you to take time wait what do you do for work again I do bottle service bottle service okay so like this has that

Yamanihappened multiple times to you where a guy will pay you be like yo just take the day off I'll cover it almost almost probably every night

Yamanithat I work I would say someone offers that obviously not everyone night do I except go but usually the implication is that like I'm

Yamaniif I'm tired I don't feel like hanging out so I'll tell someone I have work I don't really feel like it and they'll be like okay well if I just pay you however much you're going to make at work would you just come with me to dinner question

Yamanifor you um how many nights per week do you work is it like Thursday Friday Saturday type of thing yeah like uh I guess like we te I guess like four yeah maybe like four nights a

Brian Atlasweek or something okay so so your like weekend nights typically are going to be preoccupied with work so a guy might be inclined to offer you payment to take it off so

Brian Atlashe can take you on a date uh what what is the what's the asking price there 500 bucks to for you to take off the night what's the guy got to pay well not that

YamaniI I'm encouraging it I don't necessarily have a price because okay yamani did I say your name right okay oh we got my name right

Yamanithat's crazy sorry Myra did I say right is ITA Mera Myra is there any implication you know what you going to do during those days well that's the thing I think a lot of times that's a

Brian Atlasreach there is obviously there's an implication when you give a girl specifically money because of the implication never mind okay It's Always

YamaniSunny in Philadelphia joke never mind I'm sure you know but obviously there's some implication that probably something sexual would happen so I don't typically like just go on dates with people for

Yamanimoney because I like I said I'm not super sexual so I would hate to like hang out with someone and they give me money and then I'm like well I don't

Yamanireally want to do that so um I mean not always but there I don't I don't know I don't think I've been on like that many

Brian Atlasto like really know but I've never I want to take you out on Friday you're working you have work what does it cost

Yamanito get you to take off work for me to take you on a date it's or a guy I mean I don't have a price that's not like what I oh so okay I'll pay you 20 bucks well no cuz Okay so there is a price

Haley Hermsyou're saying you avoid it oh well usually someone would say like I don't know I guess what would you make at work if it's a Saturday night I I don't know bottle service it just depends that's why like I feel like you probably don't have a number is like bottle service one

Yamaninight you can make like 500 in tips one night you can make 5,000 in tips literally so yeah and also I'm not nothing wrong if you go on dates for money but like I don't have like a it

Brian Atlashas to be $500 if we if you want to go to dinner I got to interject there I do think there is something wrong if you go on dates for money why well because she

Haley Hermssays the implication is sexual well if everyone what if you make it clear I just want to let you know like even though you're paying me like nothing's happening after this we're not getting

Haley Hermscrazy which is why sometimes I don't because I let people know that I'm not that's like some girl we'll do the whole leading thing on and be like oh yeah and then like put themselves in danger if

Brian Atlasyou're going on the date without an actual genuine intention that there's a possibility that you could romantic Ally pursue the guy that's what I would like

Brian Atlasif you're just strictly going on a date first off I don't think men ought to be offering money to women yeah there's a market for it so yeah that's why well that's some men shouldn't be

Brian Atlasoffering money like good for you get get your bag or whatever but I don't think um men should be oh I'll pay you $500 to go on a date with me that's pathetic

Brian Atlasgood for you not pathetic for you pathetic I blame the men isn't that called escort it's not clear to me if it's just like it's not clear to me if she's

Yamaniescorting in so far as she's working and in order for her to I I don't know it kind of blurs the lines a

Yamanilittle bit but yeah which is I I I'm not like a dater I I I don't do this all the time or like often even so couldn't you

Brian Atlasdate men on your nights off I absolutely could okay first of all you're not advertising say hey if you want to take me out you'd have to pay me they're like no no no babe here what how much do you

Yamanimake I'll cover it come spend the night with or come hang out with me like as a girl sometimes we have to tell like I've told a guy no that I don't want to go on date with you probably 10 times in a

Yamaninight so sometimes like maybe the four or same D wait the same dude you'll tell him no yeah I've I there's I've had a like at work all night had to tell someone all night I have I anyone girl

Yamaniknows this but like especially working at a club I've literally had guys like wait for me at work that's why they have to walk you to your car I mean like I mean I'm not like if a girl yeah I mean

Yamaniif the girl if a girl turns you down like move on I agree you think sometimes they offer you money I I mean if you if a girl says for example like oh I can't

Brian Atlashang out tonight he might say well what about another night but then if you say no I don't want to hang out with you that's what like I okay like as a guy you should move on I agree but obviously

Andrew Wilsonwe know that's not the case with everyone I'm not saying all guys are like that I don't just to clarify I was just curious um as he was kind of going through the question so if a guy does call you or gets a hold of you in

Andrew Wilsonwhatever way and says I want to buy out your day your work day to come hang out with me or whatever and there is an implication of sex have you ever agreed to

Yamanithose no um but I'm not against it I I don't I'm I'm not against anyone who does that I I don't judge anyone so but would you call that

Andrew Wilsonprostitution uh Le I'm pretty sure that's the definition of prostitution so I think everyone would call that well not I don't I don't know if every ask if I'm no I'm not asking that I'm just asking I'm just asking just to clarify

Yamaniit right so if you if you said no to that it would if someone says can I give you $500 to have sex with you and you say yes whether you go on a date or not

Andrew Wilsonwhether it that is what a prostitute okay I agree 100% I agree I'm just asking if if that situation comes up if you say yes

Brian Atlasto technically I would be soliciting if I agree to have sex with someone for money okay that would technically yeah is it but I don't know like in the example she provided she's

Brian Atlasworking if a man the man is not paying her for sex The man is paying her out to not go to work where she would

Brian Atlasotherwise make the money that the man is offering so it's not clear I mean the lines are perhaps to some degree a little blurred but because a man could also say let's hang out on the night you

Yamaniaren't working um yeah and if I like them we can hang out on the night I'm not working right but I guess guys are that pressed to do you ever feel pressured to have sex with them if they

Yamaniwere to pay you for a date um um I don't know I don't think anyone's ever like given me so much

Yamanimoney I what that she's asking what your price is I just told you guys like four times I'm not I don't have a price for going out on I I don't like charge for a

Yamanidate I mostly my boyfriends or people that I dated have not made paid me to go on a date but it has happened it's it

Brian Atlaslike I think any girl's been offer money so um yeah and I personally know I haven't felt that pressure but I okay it's fine um another thing from you I

Brian Atlasalso don't think you said you said in your notes Here I also don't think we were meant to always be together forever as partners some of us aren't meant to date longterm be taken seriously which

Yamaniis okay yes and are you speaking just for you like do you think that's kind of no I think a lot of people put so much pressure especially women but also men

Yamanithere's a lot of pressure on men to like get married or just it people in general to form like monogamous bonds especially as C when you he like reach certain

Yamanimarkers in your life and I just don't think everyone's meant to be monogamous with one person for the rest of their life I know guys who like obviously we know people guys and girls who are

Yamanimarried they cheat all the time like if that's the case you're not meant to be monogamous so okay I agree on this I

Merabelieve that was historical significance like meaning as to why monogamy was kind of like glorified in our society it was

Meraeasier to survive to provide when you stick to like one unit but these days our life became so that's not why is that okay finish the point hold I'll let

TTS/Donationsdonated $200 what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard at no point in your rambling incoherent response were you even close

TTS/Donationsto anything that could be considered a rational thought everyone is now Dumber for having listen to it it's a movie reference that's a movie reference W that what movie is that it's uh I think

Brian AtlasI I think that that's it's on the tip of my tongue no it's Adam Sandler I can't remember the name want to say it's Billy Madison I think it's Billy Madison um go

Meraon continue with your point okay I feel like these days we became so comfortable independent just our life became so

Meraconvenient that surviving on our own and making choices based on what we actually want to do in the moment is a norm and this is sort of a outdated I suppose

Merapart of the system where people feel the pressure to get married or have kids at by a certain age that we don't need to do that anymore and a lot of people like you said they sort of get stuck and

Merapressured to be in relationships that don't feel happy and so many families that are married I've been noticing just from what I was observing are together for reasons that are actually not

Meraauthentic whether they're feeling lonely or they want safety or sex and if you look deeper into it it looks good like on the outside but inside they're miserable and the relationship is quite toxic as opposed to people that are

Merasingle or around even though some Society can judge them for that they're actually happy and free because they do what makes them feel good Andrew I think I know you had something I do want to just really

Brian Atlasquickly before I have you come in go around the table on this so it sounded like you and I don't want to misquote you you don't think

Yamanimonogamy um what are your thoughts on monogamy it's not for everyone everyone has their own personal thing I think like we have this thing that like women are naturally monogamous men are

Yamaninaturally not as monogamous women just get super attached I don't think it's as I think we've made it super General I don't think everyone's monogamous I don't think everyone's poly I don't

Brian Atlasthink everyone's like people just like what they like some people sure but so you're saying are you saying um women aren't naturally

Yamanimonogamous that's what you wrote here did WR that so I think maybe to clarify I just don't think that don't walk it back don't walk back I'm not walking back but you're asking me to CL you're asking me what I I'm telling you what I

Yamanimeant yeah cuz I was in a DM so I couldn't out you're fine I don't think that every single woman just because you have a vagina are you monogamous and do you get emotionally attached to everyone

Yamaniyou have sex with I just think that's a little bit of like a generalization that has been made about girls is that they you know they they every time you have sex with a guy you're in love with them you fall in love but guys can just

Yamanioh sorry have sex with anyone and they don't get super attached like I know guys that get attached super quick I know girls that get ATT have super quick I know girls that have sex with a bunch of people and don't care about any of

Yamanithem and vice versa so that's why I'm saying like I said from the beginning which you could quote is that monogamy poly it's it it depends what what you're

Yamaniinto sure so perhaps just a yes or no on this um you said women aren't naturally monogamous is that's your position no I just said my position I don't I again

Yamanithat was like a very concise DM so I know there were other sentences before and after but I just because you what I'm saying is just because cuz you can't answer it yes or no is that just because you have a vagina doesn't mean that

Yamaniyou're more Super inclined to being monogamous that's all I meant by would you uh would you never be monogamous no I I've been monogamous before oh I'm not like like I didn't

Haley Hermsit's depend just because I know you so well I think what you might be trying to say and tell me if I'm wrong is historically humans weren't monogamous

Haley Hermsand then monogamy became like a thing like overtime ingrained in the culture and so just like in general not every woman is going to have the urge to be

Haley Hermsmonogamous or some women don't want to be monogamous but feel the pressure from where they grew up what religion they're in that sort of thing so I think it's just I think you can say that for men

Haley Hermsand women is like monogamy isn't for everybody that's all it's just okay uh going around the table or wait I don't know if I want um can I add one more thing sure I think what we

Meralack is the freedom of choice too much of what people do is based on what others want us to do that's it I don't even know what that means I so like an

Meraexample with marriage you know there is so much pressure especially for women to get married and have children by a certain age yeah that's because if they don't do that they can't have children I

Andrew Wilsonmean that's debatable it's notable no it's not no listen the amount of damage that you do that drastically can happen to you in the child just over the age of 24

Andrew Wilsondrastically increases every single year every single year that you hold out by the time you're 40 if you're trying to have kids how many kids you think you're going to have versus a 25 Old Men sperm count drops too as they get older just so you know it's for both of us

Andrew Wilsongenerally speaking yes but a lot of it depends on your lifestyle because we're all age differently I mean oh no what what wait a second yes I mean that that's true I guess that we all have

Andrew Wilsondifferent effects when it comes to age I would agree to that but we don't all age differently right so we all age at exactly the same rate as everybody else I disagree really so if I'm one-year-old and you're oneyear old how old are both

Brian Atlasof us depends how you perceive time depends on how you perceive well I think I think perhaps she's saying like if you take good care of your health there's some long the effects so sure you can have

Haley Hermsthe effects but but we age the same at the same rate but don't you think there's other things that can age you faster like trauma drugs losses well

TTS/Donationswait hold on 538 donated $199 when was monogamy or mating for Life something we mammals did not do

TTS/Donationslots of birds reptiles and amphibians Do It show me a successful polygamous Society with matriarch or King with harms good point very good point bone

Haley Hermsman 538 yeah I wasn't I definitely was saying like we don't like have an instinct to want to procreate and like be with other people but like you know you don't see

Haley Hermslike a lot of species just like clinging on to one other species but yeah some do some like you know like they say lobsters they mate for life when they meet their mate they're like whatever

Andrew Wilsonand then there's other like species that like they just be everybody girls don't gorillas have like this one king and then they have multiple when you take when you take human Behavior right we're not going to we're not going

Andrew Wilsonto compare ourselves to Lions right we still have Primal instin animals but we also have higher faculties so we can know how to do things which are good for us even regardless of what our own

Andrew Wilsoncarnal Natures are so for instance it might feel good to do thing which ends up hurting you in the long run so you don't do that thing even though it feels good like for instance eating tons of chocolate in a single sitting might feel good probably not very good for you so

Andrew Wilsonlots of people would avoid doing it right mhm we see that otherwise we end up with like pure Hedonism so the reason monogamy is so good for the world is because it used to be that only a small subsec of men were able to procreate

Andrew Wilsonever because women are The Gatekeepers of sex so what would happen is all the high status men would get the mass majority of women that's what would happen what happened when monogamy is really introduced especially through

Andrew WilsonChristian ethics what's ended up happening is now everybody has a mate you see societal violence go way down you see people are able to genetically replicate themselves and so the biggest value to a species moving forward is

Haley Hermsreplication right you have to be able to replicate yourself I'm going to agree with that I just don't think that just because we do it doesn't mean everyone wants to do it yeah well not saying it

Andrew Wilsonisn't good for society I think I that's just kind of like Val yeah but that's just kind of triply true right so you can say that about everything like not everybody wants to do everything that's true but we're kind of talking in a

TTS/Donationsgeneral broaded my male hormones naturally overcame me and I made a disgusting comment toward

TTS/Donationsmirrr she is wearing the least clothing nips spoking enjoys turning down losers like me what is this he didn't make a comment about your

Brian Atlasabs what does he want me to cover my face no don't don't worry about it what what also do I need to cover Nick do we have any paper bags

Brian Atlasback there I didn't you're you're fine like out the eyeballs go ahead uh did you want to continue on with the yeah yeah so I'm

Andrew Wilsonjust what I'm saying is that monogamy if you if you want to know why I'm so anti- degeneracy I'm so anti- promiscuity things like that if you look at all the Western Nations where all the

Andrew Wilsonpromiscuity is allowed everywhere at all times like she says I feel like we don't have a choice to do what there's nobody stopping you literally from doing anything any of degeneracy you could ever think of right now you can

Andrew Wilsonbasically do and you have a right to do it at all times whenever you feel like it everywhere inside of the United States I can't think of a single one a single thing that you would be like I

Andrew Wilsonjust have to go and do this horrible degenerate thing what is it that you couldn't go do right now what's your what what choice are you being limited I'm not limited I think I'm more so

Meratalking about other people feeling the psychological pressure of society like women get judged men get judged too actually just there's so much judgment and I think that's unnecessary what's

Merawrong with judgment judgment's good because it stirs people away from doing what they want to do yeah but as my problem right this is why you just because you can do it doesn't mean you

Andrew Wilsonshould this is a problem with twitch politics you got twitch brain okay so what's happened because of your Twitch brain as you hear all the hedonist on Twitch say do what makes you feel good man the good is the good do the good

Andrew Wilsonwhatever makes you feel good have you ever watched my T what about your duty and obligations do you have any of those do you just have a set of sequence of entitlements that you call rights with zero duties and zero rights actually

Meratwitch chat also puts pressure in me I think this is mentality that I came on my own which was really hard because there's like I said so much pressure from everyone but answer to my question so my question is do you just have a

Andrew Wilsonsequence of entitlements or do you have any duties and obligations to anybody for anything ever your question is very vague can you pray or frize it to be more I don't know how it could possibly be more precise do you know what a duty

Andrew Wilsonis could you define that no I'm just asking if you know what one is before I Define it before we become too overly pedantic I just want to make sure that you are going to tell me that you don't know what that word means first before I

Fara KhaljiDefine it not that you're making me do it because you want to be overly pedantic English is my second language that doesn't mean that you don't understand what I'm saying I don't know how this relates she was talking about freedom of choice and you said well you're legally allowed to do whatever

Fara Khaljiyou want and then she was talking about socialization and being inated to have certain habits and you said what's wrong with shame it's fine to be shamed but she's saying that people women aren't avoiding promiscuity because of the adverse effects that you think are inherent to promiscuity it's because they don't want to be called a 304 a SL

Fara Khaljiif you think there's not what she said that is what she's implying she's saying there's actually negative side effects those will manifest in themselves it doesn't have to take the form of guys calling her that's the sort of what we're

Brian Atlastalking what she was saying talking being talking about monogamy and the expectation to have she's saying she feels like it's not fair that Society is casting stigma on social

Fara Khaljibehaviors that's what she's actually saying she's saying freedom of choice and you understood freedom of choice to mean legal rights and she was saying no no not just socialization and stigma what I'm talking about literally talking

Andrew Wilsonabout stigma right this second that's why I'm asking do you feel like you only have a sequence of entitlements which you're given or do you have feel like you have any duties and obligations external those a duty an obligation to

Andrew Wilsonwho like a child or a dog or a job like if you're a parent do you have a duty to feed your child if you're a parent I'm not a parent you want me to imagine what how do you how would you feel if you ate breakfast this

Andrew Wilsonmorning how would I feel if I ate breakfast yeah full yeah how how would would you feel bad if you didn't eat breakfast this morning I would require more minerals that is correct okay great

Andrew Wilsonso we know that you can do hypothetical Sy let's not be pedantic then so still don't know what pedantic is yeah you don't know what what it is you don't know what pedantry is because English is your second language are you sure correct okay well let's move into it anyway I'm just going to ask and I'll

Andrew Wilsonuse really small words do you have a duty and if you don't know what the word duty means when I say it in the context of feeding a child I'll tell you are you asking me to answer if I had a child would I feed the child and that's you

Andrew Wilsonhave a duty to feed the child some obligation I would feed my child do you have an obligation to feed your child I feel like this is a lot of semantics yes you an argument Antics are

Fara Khaljisuper important so I'm just wondering do you have an obligation to feed your child I would feed my child do you have an obligation to do that though yes legally you have an

Andrew Wilsonobligation understand you don't understand that when I ask you one question and then you answer to a question you didn't ask you that you don't understand why I keep repeating question if I say would you feed your

Andrew Wilsonchild and you say yes I'd feed my child then that's an answer to that question if I ask you if you have an obligation to feed your child and you say I would feed my child that's not answering if you think you have an obligation to do

Yamaniso I will feed my child and that is the last thing I'm going to say but you have you would feed your child because you o like because you have to basically it's you have to feed if my child is

Haley Hermshungry I will feed them no but do you have an obligation to feed your child like let's put it this way like let's like uh you could some guy wants

Haley Hermsto fly you out to France for $2 million or your baby needs to eat and you're like well the mic please well the baby I don't have to feed the baby it'll live

Haley Hermsbut I I can go on this France trip like you know some people would be like you know what the baby I'll hire a sitter to feed them that's not my obligation right now my obligation is like going to France and get this money

TTS/Donationsyou know what I mean so he's kind of saying

TTS/Donations13899 her very body Embraces the duty to the child via the memory glands that's true okay I think you should specify do you mean like a legal Duty or a moral duty I just said obligation first yeah do you mean legally or morally that

Andrew Wilsonwould be first I would need to figure out whether or not she even feels like she has any obligation or doesn't actually know what the word obligation means if you don't actually know I want to ask you something else if he pulls up the def definition of obligation reads

Andrew Wilsonit to you will you answer the question then or you just going to still answer it the same way I will try my best okay do you want me to I can Google obligation right if that's what you want to do Brian an act or course of action

Fara Khaljito which a person is morally or legally bound a Duty or commitment a duty and legal both specify legal or moral specify for her which one moral a very easy question no it's not if you were

Andrew Wilsonask me are you obligated to be nice to the person next to you I could say not necessar are you morally are should you morally feed your child yes okay good so now back over to you do you have an obligation to feed your child I will make sure that my child is are you

Brian Atlasobliged to do so answer the question Myra did I get it right Mera Mera sorry so I'm not doing it I swear I'm not doing intentionally I'm like that brain

Meradead I will answer yes you have a obligation to do so yeah but it's not in front of other people it's because I care for the child okay but there is a duty

Andrew Wilsonthere okay okay so now we've established you know what duty means so do you have any of those in society or no will I feed anyone else in that's what I'm asking I'm asking if you have any

Andrew Wilsonduties in society now that you understand the context of what duty means or is it all just entitlement I feel like I can make certain difference in life that would be

Andrew Wilsonhelpful to people but I don't have to okay so you don't have any duties or obligations to anybody else in society just a sequence of

Andrew Wilsonentitlements I don't know what sequence of entitlement is so like let's take a right would you say a right's an entitlement can you be more specific can you give me like yeah like your right to free speech for a context that's an

Andrew Wilsonentitlement would you say that's you're entitled to

Andrew Wilsonthat no no you're not entitled to it I don't think anyone entitled to anything nobody's entitled to anything Yes except your baby to get food yeah but even

Merathere like it's all very sub objective like I would take care of the baby and feed the baby because I care for the baby MH but would you give a stigma towards people who didn't no why because

Andrew Wilsonit's none of my business so if people weren't feeding their children and they were starving to starving because they weren't feeding them you don't wouldn't want a societal stigma against that I'm not there to judge there are other people that can do that so do you think

Andrew Wilsonthe world then is going to be a better place or a worse place because you refuse to judge and allow us to societal stigma towards people who won't feed their children this reminds me of my childhood

Andrew WilsonI need to ask do you all feel the same way um well so a couple things I feel like like I'm asking I just want to finish this real quick thinking I'm thinking is the world going to be a worse a better or a worse place by you

Merarefusing to allow a stigma towards people who won't feed their own children so I think the the reason why this comparison doesn't work is because in the first case the life of a child that

Merais not able I'm assuming to feed him or is a danger and the second one you're judging someone else's personal seexual life I don't understand why wouldn't that work we're talking about a stigma towards a behavior that we don't like to

Merasee the benefits in society due to the stigma because like I said the first one someone's life depends on it somebody that technically is not capable of feeding themselves and the second case

Haley Hermsit's what are you talking about a great example I'd love to ask her that maybe it could put it more specifically like as an example not so much a statement so here we go when I was a kid my dad used

Haley Hermsto like beat the living out of me for like 15 years and one day and I sang my entire life growing up one day I was sing sing singing my I come outside my neighbor's like oh my God you have such a lovely voice like you're

Haley Hermssuch a good singer like never stop singing and I feel really good feel really great and then 10 seconds later I realized wait if she can hear me singing she can definitely hear when I'm like

Haley Hermsscreaming bloody murder for help and no one's helping and so I think in this what his question could go towards this if you were my neighbor would have you felt obligated to call the police duty

Merato or would you said that's none of my business I'm not going to get into that actually that's really that's a good framing yes that is thank you for clarifying it so um I think I should

Merahave mentioned maybe I did but briefly is that as long as nobody getting hurt if no one's health or life is in danger do what you please do not let others influence your life well he's going to

Fara Khaljisay promiscuity hurts people but that example doesn't pan out to her because she's talking about personal choice in terms of Desire not action so even if you don't want to feed the baby and you feel obligated to you're still going to feed the baby she's talking about

Fara Khaljipersonal desire to have sex being suppressed by stigma not actually whether you act on it or wasn't that the point of the analogy weren't we talking about we we started off talking about with monogamy with her then she came in

Brian Atlasthen she started talking about there's a pressure on women to have children and to get married that's not really related to promiscuity necessarily what we're talking instead is about societal duties so the question becomes for looking at the United States we're looking at

Andrew WilsonWestern Nations which are underneath the threshold for replacing their own people inside of those Nations way underneath not even replacing their themselves period is there any Duty for us to do

Andrew Wilsonthat and he would say there's no duty to do that right there's no Duty so why wouldn't we for instance if I was the president of the United States tomorrow why would would I want to have some type

Andrew Wilsonof push towards women to see them uh kind of view this as a duty to do a duty to try to get married younger to try to have families younger so that I could bring that birth rate up for instance so

MeraI could replace the society which I currently have you don't think that that's a good idea you trying to replace the society that sounds like some Hitler that that's crazy well I think right now

TTS/Donationswe're seeing a lot of there's people that there's couple going on there's bman 538 donated

TTS/Donations$199 natural law is upheld when no harm is done to persons property the public peace and all the public trust the entitlement of benefit comes with the

Brian Atlasresponsibility or the sense of Duty to the group thank you thank you bone man 538 thank you did you have something Andrew yeah so I think she accused you

TTS/Donationsof being Hitler yeah so if if my it's my goal oh sorry donated $200 l i was sing for a girl with a

TTS/Donationsmonkey playing symbols in her brain WTF came over me Christ is Lord Andrew W chicks need a civic's class number three based promiscuity does hurt people what

Andrew Wilsonis based I'm sorry just means awesome based in reality sweet how does priscu hurt people well hang on back to the before we get into that yeah we'll get into that if I say I want the population

Andrew Wilsonwhich we currently have to continue to replace itself inside of the United States how's that like Hitler again I don't think she understands she misunderstood what you meant he meant

Fara Khaljilike rep punishing the birth rate so that we're not decreasing in population over time good luck yeah yeah how's that like Hitler though cuz she misunderstood and yeah I know she can talk so how's that like Hitler again cuz I misunderstood oh

Andrew Wilsonokay so you're going to say that I'm not like Hitler then and that that's like the opposite of it sounded too extreme to me to want to replace the domestic

Yamanipopulation of your nation that sounds extreme yes that is why is that extreme wait did you want to come in no I was just going to say I feel like the word replace makes it sound strong it makes it sound like you're like maybe that's

Macywhere the disconnect is well I think you're saying repace because we will all be gone one day I but know what he's saying I was just saying I'm saying for her sake like snake sh

Brian Atlasokay replace I think maybe it just sounded Andrew are you a national socialist is I think what she's asking no

Andrew Wilsonokay I mean but that's what you're doing if you have a if you have a child you're replacing yourself right you're you're passing your jeans on you're replacing yourself that's the point of it you're replicating your jeans you're

Andrew Wilsonreplicating your jeans yeah let it be natural why you you trying to raise what is because if you hit under x amount of threshold and your population diminishes too much your your people go byby but

Yamaniwhy does it have to be by on expense by of other we are I don't understand our human obsession with like thinking we're going to be here forever we're species

Yamanidie all the time if this planet blows up we would be gone it if an astro am I no keep going keep going you're cing you're cooking keep going we have this weird obsession with thinking that

Yamaniwe're going to be here forever like preserving I I'm all for like not littering preserving the Earth but we think we're just so above every other species that we're just supposed to be here forever and we just

Yamanigot every every eventually everything comes to an end just like I'm going to die we're all going to are you talking about the heat death of the universe in like trillions of years is that is it talking about in general like how the

Andrew Wilsondinosaurs were wiped out by a huge let assume for a second I'm just saying you're saying talk Al but I got to know

Andrew WilsonI got to know this um assume that you could see that the outcome based on policies that you had would lead to that way faster would you want to avoid that

Andrew Wilsonas the outcome I'm sorry what what do you mean the outcome so like just assume that the outcome is if you do xxxxx it leads to the human race becoming extinct

Andrew Wilsonokay if you could then not do those things and that avoids that outcome don't you think we should do that one day we are going to be extinct one day

Andrew Wilsonwe're going to be I I get it so first of all no I don't even concede that that's true but even if I did even if I were to just say you're right one day human

Yamanibeings are just all going to be gone if you could avoid that if you had a way to avoid that would you I don't think I what's the benefit of not avoiding it

Yamaniyeah like who cares if we're all if if we're all gone in I mean you do like to exist right okay honestly no wait I feel like you're looking I wanted to die most

Fara Khaljiof my life my last suicide attempt was in 2020 let's not get into that I think you're looking at into dichotomous of a way like I could argue that the proclivities of different sexual orientations and half of girls not wanting to get married some wanting to

Fara Khaljiget married some wanting to have kids can actually cancel out the chance of overpopulation so I think you're looking at too much like oh if we encourage promiscuity and lack of marriage population is going to die up but we could be Grant all of this how does any

Andrew Wilsonof that answer to my question which I asked her which is to say this and I'll say to you too if you could change the outcome and save the human species in this scenario

Andrew Wilsonby simply changing around policies or improving policies or improving the way that human beings act wouldn't you try to do that policies as in maybe legally obligating people to perform in a

Fara Khaljidifferent way for like the outcome of human civilization um not necessarily like what would be an example of you not doing that so let's say you have a civilization of five people and I don't think it'd be ethical necessarily to force those women to get pregnant if

Andrew Wilsonthey don't want to by forcing the men to essay those women in order to keep your population going right is that a fair example okay so so let's assume then that you would only have to do that for for whatever reason side there

Fara Khaljihypothetical for a little while yeah I'm not a utilitarian in that way so I would across the board say that that's wrong even if it prolongs human species I don't think women should be forced to give children even if it would only be for a short amount of time 100% right so

Andrew Wilsonthen the human the human species goes extinct yes and so under under that is there any other parameters that you would look at for it's a very hypothetical scenario yeah I mean it is but it's it's all designed it's all

Andrew Wilsondesigned test the logic and at least the logic's consistent so what I'm trying to figure out is which policies and obligations and duties would you be willing to switch around in order to make sure that that the human species didn't go

Andrew Wilsonextinct so like let me give you a counter example of one so I'll concede on the the essay one and just say okay fine for the sake of argument we'll let we'll let this one go not for the sake of argument what would you actually say right well I would say that you have a

Andrew Wilsongreater obligation to rape to essay the women if it meant I said essay I saved myself he said if it meant if if if the opposition would mean Global Extinction

Andrew Wilsonright then I think that almost all people who were either um deontologists or utilitarians or any form of Ethics would probably say look that that's not

Andrew Wilsonthe outcome we want right it's like a it's almost a horrible verbal bullet to bite but not really because the alternative is you're like Extinction and I think that that's a worse bullet to fite ultimately well because then you have I think the religion is maybe a

Andrew Wilsonpoint of tension yeah because then you have no way to produce any of the values that you're talking about producing to begin with so it doesn't matter what your ethical system is there's nobody around to have an ethical system well okay sorry so I mean ultimately the

Andrew Wilsonresult of I think most people would rather exist than not exist even if to exist meant that the life would be slightly worse or worse uh I still think that they would prefer to do so and if

Andrew Wilsonthey didn't if those three women on this island said I would rather the meteor hit us or I'd rather we die out than these men say the question isn't their preferences the question would be the preferences of everybody in front of

Fara Khaljithat so if the human yeah yeah if the whole human race is going to die so so the women would be morally obligated to let the men essay them for their future descendants to live on well how would they be essaying them if they if they

Andrew Wilsonfelt a moral obligation they would just let them right so that wouldn't be essay at that point I'm only trying to resp it I'm only trying to respond to the specifics of your hypothetical and engage with the specifics of it but the

Andrew Wilsonconsequence for both are bad we would just say the consequence of both are not consequences we want to see but what if but so let me ask you a different one what if you had to just restrict lgbtq

Andrew Wilsonpeople from being lgbtq and then that would save the uh the species would you do it then nope nope you still wouldn't do it no right

Andrew Wilsonso then but we have totally different okay so wait a second wait hang on H let meing the almost done like Banning it making it illegal I'm almost done I'm almost done 10 years ago they still do

Andrew Wilsonit it wasn't criminalized right so you would let the entirety of Humanity go extinct to make sure that a form of Vice or degeneracy or in this case things you

Andrew Wilsondon't consider that to be but just sexual PR or proclivities were allowed to be you'd let the whole species go extinct rather than restrict that yes why what is the basis for that because I

Brian Atlasthink a lot of natural proclivity is align with what's good for people so I think is it good for people for the species to cease to exist yeah matter there's I think it's morally neutral

Haley Hermsyeah it's it's morally neutral if nobody exist morally neutral for mankind too yeah because if no one exists no one exists like who well then why

Haley Hermsshould everybody wait I've been asking myself hold on guys guys stop stop stop go ahead Andrew go ahead the consequence of what you're saying is then why

Haley Hermsdoesn't everybody just non-exist themselves well that I mean that's what I usually tell my friends I'm like well you either got to live or you're going to kill yourself like so can't that but

Andrew Wilsonjust say nonexistence yes well just say non-existence non-existence but think about this you don't actually care about the consequence of that so if everybody

Haley Hermsdid do that you just don't care yes right I think the lack of and you think that you think that that's a superior moral position I don't think either are

Haley Hermssuperior I think some people I think instinctually what you were saying yes most people have the instinct to like want to live and I think this funny cuz I literally asked someone the other day like oh if you were in a zombie attack

TTS/Donationslike what would you do and they're like we'll get right into the zombies we'll get into the zombies then the AL we're going to come to the aliens in a sec so three men three women on an island to save the human race becomes a forced

TTS/Donationsbreeder program BC equals no moral obligation to save or mass Low's hierarchy self-actualize as a mother what else is on island huh wait what I'm not fully like

Andrew WilsonI don't think anyone got that bone man he's saying maslov's hierarchy of needs I think right but how does that apply but what is this he's saying that within the hierarchy of needs we need people so once we once we have that then we'll

Andrew Wilsonhave all the we'll have all the shelter and we'll have all the this we'll have all the that um so but we need people to get all of that I think that's what he's what he's getting at I'm not making his argue I'm just saying I think that's what he's getting at yes I think you're talking about zombies we can talk about

Haley Hermszombies basically what I was saying was I asked him I was like what would you do if we had like had a zombie apocalypse HP hypothetical right in my mind I'm thinking like you know go find shelter

Haley Hermsgo drive out I'm like thinking right in the way I'm going to survive and he goes I would just un alive myself and I was like what I didn't realize that was an option some don't want to be tasked with

Brian Atlaslike the wait we talked about this last show the zombie question thator I think you said you on the live though too I think you said but those are two but so my point was you're right most people

Fara Khaljiwould have uh second girl Sor oh yeah try not to slam the table most people would have the instinct to like want to live those are two different things not un Al living yourself and not replenishing your race I don't know why

Fara Khaljiwe're conflating the two I'm talking about replenishing replenishing your race we're just talking we're talking about Humanity in general yeah but you're conflating having births to unal living yourself and those are completely different things yeah but that's because

Andrew Wilsonthe conversation graduated between the two so I'm not I'm not disputing with you that in this case those are two different topics but they it it evolved that way between us talking about the

Brian Atlasone to the other that was that was a heated moment on the whatever podcast what was the zombie talk no not the zombie talk yeah that was pretty dull on the previous episode or or no

Haley Hermsyou can talk about zombies if you want so do you I mean but you think that that's preferable like you wouldn't even try see at F my first instinct as a

Haley Hermshuman was to try like my instinct wasn't to like give up and like you know whatever but then I realized I'm like if in the theory we're having a whole apocalypse here and like why like you

Haley Hermsknow if a meteor is coming down like why do I feel the need to get pregnant like let's just if you had like I can send I'm sending an asteroid too by the way go ahead Andrew yeah if you had like a 15-year-old cousin that you really loved and came to you and was like I have six

Andrew WilsonGod children yeah okay 15-year-old little cousin and he said I'm going to unive myself would you try to talk him out of it yes why to an extent why um I think

Haley Hermswhen you're that young you need more like context but I think if you get to an age where you're like 30 and you're like it's still well for 30 what about 17 still not developed 18 we're

Andrew Wilsondeveloped more around like 24 25 you'd have to wait till someone's 25 before you'd allow them to do that I mean I do they have to wait till they're 25 to get

Andrew Wilsonmarried or have sex uh no no but but this much bigger decision right you you think that

Andrew Wilsonthese yo bone man 53 I think of a gifted 50 memberships go ahead Andrew yeah so you think that they're they're fully capable of figuring out who they want to have sex with getting married probably going off and joining the military whatever they want to do but they can't

Haley Hermsmake this decision well I don't think even at 18 they should be like the military what about sex can they have sex at 18 is that fine with you um I think so depending how much the age

Andrew Wilsondifference is with the other person okay the're same age yeah yeah you don't care right but but if the same 18-year-old came to you and said that they want to make this other decision you think that they're enough of an adult to make this

Haley Hermslife potentially life-changing decision but not this other potentially life-changing [Music] decision what so the in turn the life-changing decision would be to like

Haley Hermsprocreate yeah uh I guess in one scenario it feels like it's their choice in the other scenario it feels like it's being forced no it's both their choice upon them no

Andrew Wilsonno no in this particular case it's like they choose to have a baby at 18 yeah or they choose to uh un alive themselves at 18 both massive lifechanging forever choices right and you think the one is

Haley Hermsokay but not the other okay well before when they were just having sex that was one thing but if we're going bringing a baby in it no I don't think you should bring Don $200 her Instinct was to tell her

TTS/Donationsfriends to off them M themselves so that she can plausibly escape the zombies smart move she is obviously the first dead no

Brian Atlasexplain okay um here let me move the conversation on let me move the conversation on a little bit so uh we we have a couple chats here I'm going to

Brian Atlasget these we have it's coming up in just a sec for Fortescue thank you man never thought I'd come across someone with just the right amount of brain cells to be a br ladies and gentlemen we found her I

Brian Atlasthink he's talking about Kiki over there and with the blue hair all right thank you man appreciate it we have grid One Motorsports here coming up in just a sec

Brian Atlasawesome I walk into Dollar General Greta being purposefully obtuse and Destiny's Child arguing just argue going to be fun sorry I missed the first bit hey grid

Brian Atlasone thank you man welcome to the uh stream and then we have peacecraft here let's not linger too long on this but he's got a question Here Andrew ask Fara

Brian Atlaswhere rights come from she cannot attack you on deontology while also holding rights are social six men outvoted women three women in society this is what

Brian Atlasdemocracy looks like um I think this is you guys have had a previous conversation about this maybe let's not linger too long but if you guys want to well it's going to take it's going to take a few minutes of lingering if we

Andrew Wilsonget into it do you think more than 10 minutes I think we can probably get it donees 10 minutes okay we try try to get it done in 10 minutes so he's asking the First Fundamental question which is where the rights come from okay I think we've gotten into this a little bit in

Andrew Wilsonterms of women's suffrage oh wait should we is this is that to women's suffrage no women's suffrage not like talking about we're not going to say repeal the we're not going into any of that go

Fara Khaljiahead um I do agree with you that rights are ultimately decided by the culture at large and who decides to give it um obviously we had a point of contention about whether that means that women's rights are ultimately laughable since

Fara Khaljimen are the stronger gender and could ultimately overpower them and stuff like that I'll still disagree with that I don't know if that necessarily applies to the hypothetical we were just engaging with we weren really talking about rights and I'm happy to get back

Andrew Wilsonto that too but what he's saying is he's saying there's no real way for you to attack the worldview if you think that rights are just kind of socially constructed which I would agree with you

Andrew Wilsonthey are they're socially constructed entitlements that have to be limited by duties and oblig that's what they are you would agree with me that that's basically what they are like you can't have okay so if the society comes through this through deont

Andrew Wilsonor deontological worldview or like Universal ethics you don't really have anything to argue and if they come through it through utilitarian means you don't really have anything to argue that's what his point is that's what I think he's trying to say so then bring

Brian Atlasif you bring that chat back up I'll read the other part and see if I can figure out exactly what he's after here ask Fara where rights come from she cannot attack you on deontology while

Brian Atlasalso holding rights are social six men outvoted women three women in society this is what democracy looks like right so he's saying so if we're back on the island and we have a democracy and six

Andrew Wilsonmen right are able to outvote the women the women are like I don't want to be essed and the six men are like but we want to ESS you yeah they could do it I think we were more discussing what they ought to do but they're saying it's

Andrew Wilsonmorally wrong for them to do it is there a different example we can use besides the ESS but I'm just that's what he's pointing to in his question that's the only brought it up a different you know yeah maybe not that same but like it

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