HEATED DEBATE On NOT Reciprocating In The Bedroom?! | Dating Talk #99

Date: 2023-09-11

Duration: 4h 58m

Guests

Brian Atlas

PPixie (DT130)>

AAmy Dangerfield >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS(audience)

SPEAKER_02Amy Dangerfield(guest)

SPEAKER_03Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_05Lauren(guest)

SPEAKER_06Emmy(guest)

SPEAKER_07Pixie(guest)

SPEAKER_08Kathy(guest)

SPEAKER_09Alessia(guest)

Key Moments

OtherLauren reveals she dated Martin Shkreli on-and-off for ~2 years, moved in briefly, and remains friends. Story includes fake Tiffany's proposal on livestream where he said 'just kidding' after she said yes.

“He took me to a Tiffany's and then he proposed to me in the Tiffany's and then when I said yes he said just kidding”

OtherLauren discloses she served 2 years in the military (honorable discharge), earned a math degree, went to law school, and passed the bar — currently tutoring.

“so on like my military paperwork says I have an honorable discharge I honorably served my country for two years did basic training I did OSUT I did SEER then I went on to get a math degree and then I went on to go to law school and then I passed the bar”

OtherAlessia discloses history of in-person sex work including the Bunny Ranch, being arrested twice at age 19, and a difficult childhood that led her to sex work.

“I was just doing different types of sex work like everything everything you could possibly think of and it was the Bunny Ranch”

ControversyHeated debate over reciprocating oral sex. Brian says he does not perform oral sex but ensures partner climaxes in other ways. Pixie pushes back strongly that this is selfish. Emmy says it must be mutual.

“is it a deal breaker if a guy doesn't want to go down on you”

QuoteBrian jokes that the only woman who could give him a satisfactory hand job would be a virtuoso cellist with the technique from playing strings.

“I will accept a dry handy from a cello player like a virtuous cello or violin otherwise these normal women out here who don't have the necessary the requisite technique”

OtherLauren self-rates her looks as 3-4. Pixie reveals that 7 men approached Lauren at bars in a single night, arguing Lauren is delusional for rating herself that low.

“uh Lauren four three...this girl we went out to the freaking bars like the other day a seven men hit on her like in the night like one after that after the other”

Key MomentPixie accuses Brian's feminism arguments of being based on only talking to conservative men, not actual feminist research. Brian calls her argument erroneous. Exchange becomes heated with both talking over each other.

“you literally yeah to stem which is one of the biggest disparities...you can say no no but guess what I'm a feminist I'm actually part of these movements”

Topics Discussed

Guest introductions and relationship status round

Brian introduces panel; each guest gives name, age, occupation, and relationship status. Includes discussion of Kathy's non-binary dating, Pixie's pansexuality, Emmy's DM pitch deck boyfriend, Alessia's post-breakup celibacy, Lauren's non-binary identity and Martin Shkreli connection, Amy's 4-year ended relationship.

Martin Shkreli story

Lauren describes her ~2-year on-and-off quasi-relationship with Martin Shkreli before and during his criminal proceedings. Details the fake Tiffany's proposal livestream prank where he said 'just kidding' after she said yes.

OnlyFans safety, parasocial relationships, and sex work

Discussion of OnlyFans parasocial dynamics, male ownership feelings from financial transactions, whether OF is safer than traditional in-person sex work. Amy raises concerns about lack of safety protocols. Alessia defends OF as safer from her personal experience in multiple forms of sex work.

Violence statistics: male vs female victims, street safety

Debate on whether women or men face more violence. Brian argues women receive free male protection on streets; Pixie counters with bystander effect and NYC subway assault cases. Emmy cites size differential as reason for intervention. Discussion of gang violence by race and gender demographics.

Dating dynamics: who pays, deal-breakers, serenade

First date paying debate (Alessia: man should pay because he invited), body hair preferences, love languages, gift-giving reciprocity, whether being serenaded is romantic or cringe. Brian says he would not serenade.

MAIN DEBATE: Reciprocating oral sex

Heated debate on whether refusing to perform oral sex on a partner is a deal-breaker if the partner has no expectation of reciprocation. Brian reveals he does not perform oral sex but ensures partner climaxes other ways. Discussion of hand jobs vs. blow jobs. Pixie and Emmy argue reciprocation is required for fairness.

Attraction, OnlyFans income, and dating OF creators

Whether men would date women with OnlyFans. Self-rating round: guests rate their looks 1-10. Discussion of attractiveness subjectivity vs. objective symmetry-based metrics. Pixie rated herself 7, Amy 6, Kathy 7, Alessia 9-10, Lauren 4.

Feminism, nature vs. nurture, and wage gap

Whether guests consider themselves feminists. STEM representation debate. Nature vs nurture on gender differences in work ethic and ambition. Amy argues evolutionary psychology drives male work drive. Pixie and Emmy argue social conditioning explains disparities. Wage gap discussion.

Male privilege vs. male oppression

Brian asks if male privilege provides more benefit than female privilege. Discussion of emotional suppression as male oppression. Pixie argues social norms cause more discrimination against women than laws. Brian argues toplessness is the only legal right differential. Tubal ligation policies debated.

Military conscription vs. women's right to vote

Brian argues forced military conscription is a greater historical grievance than women not having the right to vote. Pixie and Lauren counter that lack of voting rights meant total subjugation without legal recourse. Discussion of historical domestic violence norms, IDF mandatory service. Brian notes women got the vote in 1920 just two years after WWI.

Transcript

Page 5 of 6

Brian Atlasname is does better than the one with the female name but we actually that's a study we have in action like that's I think much more

Brian Atlasobservable than a study you have affirmative action you have die and major even mid-tier corporations major corporations when they do the studies though they do

Brian Atlascomparison between with names and without names and people who like when you do the studies without names and you know what you know who probably ran the study it was probably some feminist studies programs

Brian Atlaslet me finish going into the study they were looking they were fishing for an exact they were it's like if you're looking for the answer

Emmyis that women will eventually have children and take maternity leave so it's like a business decision so what she is saying is true but because of the business decision companies are trying to think that your career has just not

Pixiemanifested itself in the way you would have liked because you're oppressed no that's not what I said I said that if I decide to go to a certain career paths I will most likely be at a disadvantage

Pixiewhat did you study in college I studied I triple majored actually in philosophy economics and psychology okay so have you not been able to

Pixieproceed in a career because of I'm sorry I'm saying that if I decided to go into a stem career it will be statistically much more harder for me to get a job

Emmywith my qualifications there's actually more women in stem than there are men that is not true it defines them defines them like which so well okay I have some notes here so in America

Brian Atlasyes here in the U.S okay so science technology engineering maths so what the feminists like to do is they like to exclude certain stem Fields where women

Brian Atlasare actually over represented than men in order to like further try it's about wage Jane no in order to further try to gain uh okay affirmative action what is what it what you're saying Okay so

Brian AtlasI've got some notes here I'll read it medicine and Dentistry subjects Allied to Medicine biological sciences veterinary science Agriculture and related subjects physical science mathematical science

Brian Atlascomputer science engineering Technologies and architecture those aren't jobs that's the official no no official definition of stem yeah okay so but when women say stem

Laurenit's they they don't acknowledge all those things in nursing right yeah yeah nursing is

Emmyit but that's like but my narcissist like stem as a whole is definitely male dominated stem as a it's not okay can you tell me where you're getting that

Emmystatistics like careers like if they have over six figures if it's software Engineers if it's data scientists I'm generally curious physical science mathematics

Brian Atlasengineering and technology and Computing and they think that's the extent of stem but when you if you start removing like biological sciences nursing Etc

Brian Atlasveterinary science agriculture any subjects Allied to Medicine then women are actually overrepresented there's more women I want to know what studies you're getting

Pixiethis from please just tell me what source are these assistant jobs

EmmyI'm not even doubting you I want to know for like 10 female assistants of course it's going to be a female dominated oh of course it's gonna be female dominated if you count all the assistance there's gonna be one doctor for like 10 nurses

Emmyand assistants but it doesn't mean that they make more or that they actually graduated from those fields you can be a dental assistant yes you for every dentist there's dental assistants that didn't actually graduate from college

Emmybut they're also counted in stem as a job but if you just look at like income people who make over six figures in a stem field like how many people are women and men I think that's a more fair comparison because if you're an

Emmyassistant it doesn't really matter like I can get an assistant job in like any field okay right now and I can still be accounted this is this is like you want to focus on it's the Apex file

Brian Atlasso you want to focus on the top positions yeah because that's what you need quality you don't hear feminists arguing oh we need 50 uh of women to be

Brian Atlasbricklayers we need 50 of uh women to work on oil rigs like workplace deaths there's a gap

Brian Atlasthere's a workplace death Gap 93 of it's 91 or 93 of workplace deaths are men I think let's we should we equalize that perhaps men one of the reasons men get

Brian Atlaspaid more than women is because I think what makes this more likely to do dangerous work they're more likely to work outside if there's some major [ __ ] power outage in the middle

Brian Atlasof the winter and below zero below and I admire men who is going to be the one who's gonna be the one yes

Pixieokay this is no okay sorry this is such a bad argument because when it comes to jobs that are making the most amount of money to begin with with your logic or whatever what you're saying it's actually like white collar jobs nice CEO

Brian Atlaspositions but regardless of that putting that aside yes I really want that's right you can only have feminism when there's cushy air-conditioned jobs no no no like okay you don't hear feminists

Brian Atlasfighting for for these dangerous first of all that's not true

Brian Atlasokay yo y'all feminists just want to fight for the cushy high paying air-conditioned office jobs you don't want to do the dirty dangerous work that

Pixieare that men are doing that happen to be high paid and you think that because all the men you surround with yourself around say the same exact thing about feminism but there are actually feminist movements within this field that if you

Pixiedid three seconds of research you'll see it's no just say yeah you could say no no but guess what I'm a feminist I'm actually part of these movements I actually look at them you literally yeah to stem which is uh yeah because that is one of the biggest disparities where you

Brian Atlasknow theoretically speaking there shouldn't be that's why that's why I went to stem okay what do you mean there's not a disparity and actually there's a disparity hold on but do you acknowledge that there's a disparity in college enrollment oh yeah there's more

Pixiewomen in college yeah exactly so how come does it take a woman to have like I guess like 1.5 more like of an educational level than men to get the same paying job basically a woman has to go get her undergraduate degree and

Brian AtlasMasters to get the same level of job that a guy just has to get his undergraduate degrees erroneous yeah I got to say erroneous because you can't respond to me what okay so no I can respond to you I can respond I can

Brian Atlasrespond to you okay respond throw the popcorn by being a [ __ ] you just I love this Savage pixie this is you didn't even address my argument

Pixieabout how men are underrepresented when it comes to uh attaining college degrees Yeah I said I actually proves a point of like hey guess what there's a disparity where it shouldn't be because men need

Pixieless education to get the same job that a woman has eliminated right though yeah a woman needs to get an undergraduate degree and Masters who basically get the same level paying job as a man who got

Pixiethat's fake that's not you can search it up right now fake news it's not ghosts I think the fact that you have a computer and you could literally Google what I'm saying and you just won't ever a woman

Pixieneeds to get a master's degree to earn the same as a guy who hasn't I said on at like basically the way that like these numbers are coming out is that a woman needs like more education

Laurenthe guy who has less can I address this though because when it comes there is there's a lot of studies that confirm that when it comes to applying for jobs women will look at a job description and let's say there's 10 bullet points if they meet like

Laurennine of the ten bullet points or eight of the ten and they're like oh but I didn't meet the last two yeah it says I have my Masters or you need a masters and I only have a bachelor they're not even going to apply whereas men like

Laurenlet's say they only meet like three or four they're gonna fly yeah

Laurenabsolutely that's why men are more likely to have the same jobs as Bachelors than as women with Masters because they're flipping applying they're putting themselves out there way

Amy Dangerfieldmore because they can take they experience rejection and that's why you significantly more than women do which is why they can that's why there's women who are still high levels in those different careers because those women who are able to exemplify the

Amy Dangerfieldpersonality characteristics to be able to achieve that same level otherwise it wouldn't be any women right if it was really that oppressive but no the women who were able to exude and exemplify those characteristics that that are

Amy Dangerfieldnecessary to actually get on top they're still successful they're still in those positions so it's more sure well that's that's the other thing sometimes absolutely and again but that's the exception to the rule I still believe

Emmyit's the exception well Boy tell me more Norm than outliers though in their current day but if you look at it 50 years ago yeah it's like more nature you would argue well I would say that when it comes to the point that you brought up Lauren

Pixiethat's true that's definitely one of the contributing factors but then that goes back to like socialization and like the and maybe you disagree with me oppression that comes from like brutal so unfair socialization so the fact that

Pixielike women are always taught to be risk adverse even financially risk adverse risk adverse risk risk adverse um oh no you should just be doing everything women are taught that or that's just the natural order of things I think women

Brian Atlasare definitely taught that something taught because boys will be boys that's the thing but if you ever meet a woman biologically more uh risk taller risk tolerance

Emmywhy are you doing

Pixiewe get bought like Barbies I don't think it's hot I just think that's just the natural order of things if that was the next men are more likely to be Risk Takers that's definitely not true I feel it well not just I think I know

Pixieum if you ever meet a man who is like oh it's okay to be aggressive you know that's just a boy being a boy guess what they're going to show aggressive patterns in the future versus kids that are taught to like emotionally regulate better they tend to have like better

Pixielike long-term outcomes when it comes to emotional regularity this idea that men are just naturally like more like you know like they like the risk more they like to be a violent more they like to be aggressive more they're less aggressive societies overall like in

Brian AtlasJapan there's not as much like violence same in China there's like no violence like if I walk down the street at 3am No One's Gonna wait follow me but isn't it the case on the if you look at the average temperamentally men and women are actually fairly close but when you

Pixiestart looking at the extremes you have men that tend to dominate at the extremes I thought we were talking about like Society in general though wait what like are we not talking about Society in

Brian Atlasgeneral like um yeah what yeah when it comes to racism men are more likely to for example I'm pretty sure men are more likely to be entrepreneurs they're more likely to be

Amy Dangerfielduh business owners for example get away with it also work jobs that are more like physically demanding that have high level of risk involved as well appreciate that and then women work for

Pixienursery jobs when it comes to like coding anyone can stand in front of a computer screen and read code like no that's why the wage job is closing for those jobs yeah and it just seems that in a lot of these things where it's like men are more likely to do these things

Pixiewell guess what men are more likely to be raised that's okay taking risks that they don't have to constantly be aware and like scared of their surroundings so you're saying that I feel like a chicken or egg situation you're saying that because of the way we've been programmed

Amy Dangerfieldthis is the way Society is versus us saying that this is the way Society is therefore we have created structures that are revolved around human nature and our natural proclivity what what she what she says maybe made sense

Brian Atlas30 40 50 years ago but now we have girl power

Amy Dangerfieldall of these different things versus today when we have a quality of opportunity doesn't determine whether or not we have the same opportunity but it's like our

Emmyparents couldn't even own property until like the 70s so I think like wealth disparity wise like women what wait why couldn't your parents own property until no woman women just solely on their own

Brian Atlaswithout being married they just couldn't be married right exactly like you said I feel like this is the 70s wasn't it like the 20s no yeah this is such a feminist talking like oh

Brian Atlasthe way I was raised like I I'm just a slave I'm beholden when did we say this okay let me finish oh I you know the because I was raised this way I'm just

Brian Atlasnot gonna be I'm not going to be a risk taker you're not beholden to the way you were raised take some accountability women have agency you can move in the world in the west however you damn well please take accountability

Pixiecan't take accountability what they're saying is that obviously just like every other [ __ ] human being in the world or the way that you're raised affects your environment I'm sorry to tell you that you're not like the special little

Pixiesnowflake that is immune to environmental characteristics right away Brian I think you're a special little snowflake thank you very much I'd love

Brian Atlasto see you fly it up like this by the way it's so exciting I still just I you you haven't really made a convincing argument for the ways in which you have don't have rights

Pixiehere let me ask you a question do you think because I'm a male do you think I'm privileged because I'm a male um I think there's certain ways that you're privileged in certain ways that you're oppressed

Brian Atlasdo you think male privilege is superior to female privilege maybe Superior is not the right word is uh provides more privilege than female privilege white

Alessiamale I don't know white man I will say that I'm not sure how you would quantify this heterosexual men yeah

Emmywhite men then yeah the rules are back to your favor of course if you're anxiety was built by here in America yeah if you're in China you're not gonna

TTShave as much privileges no I mean but times are changing hopefully I think um and you're bigger you can

TTSbeat up any of us at this table 99. if the wage Cape did exist and women are getting paid less why wouldn't companies just hire exclusively women since it

Pixiewould be more cost effective yeah you could just because they're seeing as less effective it's like why would you have if you had two employees one costed a little bit more but you think they're doing a plus work versus an employee you can pay them less but they're doing like

PixieC work who are you gonna it's like they're saying that women do sea levels they assume that women are doing sea level work that's a problem it's just in their perception it has nothing to do with their results

Laurena lot of times just look at the resume they do hire me but that doesn't even that doesn't even work when you talk about like long companies that have had like a lot

Laurenlike many many years of practice with Dei because that would that doesn't just include first hires that includes all of the people who work and that's why the wage Gap is closing because you are

Emmyrealizing that women can be just as capable but slowly but the CEOs are all like Boomers you know they're still like 60 years old no they're literally financially incentivized to hire yeah and that's why it is slowly closing

Pixiebecause before because not every company is ESG like there's tons

Brian Atlaslet me come back to where we're talking about okay so let's talk about male privilege right so do you think I'd rather talk about male oppression I'm sorry okay but do you think male privilege is provides more privilege than female

Pixieprivilege um it depends what context or area you're talking about right in general like just there's no I hate when people are like in general no like that I'm sorry world is

Pixienot black and white it's not simple you have to look at things in certain contexts so I think yeah necessarily well we'll agree to disagree on this yes

EmmyI think males are systematically oppressed in this country but I don't think women color one of us tried to jump you you can beat us up but that is a privilege going going way back wait that's not a

Emmyprivilege that's just a biological reason but that's a privilege the biological reality is a privilege right that you can do that how are you defining privilege yeah privilege if they were able to use that to like then we couldn't do in a situation but if

Emmyyou're looking at somebody though then like that's not a privilege but you can come at me and I will be defeated like any of you yeah no I'm saying like

Emmyif you chose to be silent then you can be a majority of women so that is a privilege just like physics that's just biological physical stuff

Brian Atlasif you can like physically take over if someone broke into your house like as women if I live I think that's just a reality yeah I think when we're talking about

Brian Atlasprivilege we're talking about things that are either uh bestowed to uh or that like a right bestowed To Us by the government or

Emmyum Society this is a social thing like a societal based thing I think it's just a silo based thing that's granted to you that you can absolutely choose to beat up any women and they cannot defeat you no

Laurenthat's just that's just biologicality and also he would be but that's prosecuted like the societal result would be his prosecution yeah but if I chose to do that I can't beat you up because it has nothing to do with

EmmySociety or government roles what it has to do with Biology okay so it's only systemic and it's only government so biological privileges don't count well then do you wanna when you say the word because when it comes to women say the

Laurenword privilege you're implying something that you want to get rid of like we don't want some people to be privileged and other people to be not privileged and so when you're talking about like oh he's more privileged because he's biologically bigger that's not something that we could like strive I want

Laureneverybody so do you believe in like pretty privilege are you striving as a society to get rid of pretty people then no no yes yes

Amy Dangerfieldprivileges that are biological and I don't know why we discount those but then only count the ones that are so because I think pretty privilege is [ __ ] and honestly like I'm like I mean to a degree for sure you can get ahead but I honestly personally there's

Amy Dangerfieldpeople who told me I'm really good at high ticket sales because of how I look and I'm like well actually I will do this actually I didn't have a camera on the whole time it's only by a phone they're like oh well it's because of your accent I always do whatever they

Amy Dangerfieldcan to discredit your actual value based off

Brian Atlashow attractive they are but I I do think that if you're like a really attractive person whether you're a man or woman you're going to be able to maneuver through life a little easier yeah that's why

Brian Atlaslogical fact and it's a reality I think that those things are very okay so biological facts are not privileged so well okay let's talk let's change the

Brian Atlaswording to Advantage are men advantaged when it comes to physical strength because about because of biology yes yeah is it a I think that when we're thinking of

Brian Atlasprivilege we're thinking like because for example pretty privilege it's not just the fact that you're physically attractive but the benefits that that's going to reap that the benefits that you're going to be able to

Brian Atlasreap in the workplace in romantic relationships how people are going to treat you so it's like an external thing and I can say you have more privilege than someone who is like 5'3 right if you think that's different to the what

Amy Dangerfieldshe's talking about the so-called male privilege I think they're biological facts both of them

Brian Atlasum wait okay so piximis Maximus

Laurenwait I have a question it makes me sound like a pick me on so wait males got more privilege wait I have a question okay so you know

Laurenyou know the show handmaid's tale right the whole thing is like wow they're having their kids taken from them like that's a horrible part of the show and now there's other Port parts of the show that show women depression which is

Laurensupposed to be horrific like the essay and stuff but we all kind of agree as people watching the most horrific thing is the women getting taken away the one difference between men and women

Laurenlegality in society is women have the right to murder men's babies but men don't have any right to keep their baby if a woman wants to murder it yeah men

Pixiedon't have the right of another person's bodily autonomy men do not have to bring their own children yeah no you do not have a right to tell a woman how her internal organs are gonna function it's

Pixienot their Eternal work it is it is literally your blood your lungs your everything and it's only being this you know thing it could be a baby eventually alive but it's you do not have a right

Emmyto tell another person hey you you have to keep this other human being alive I mean you guys will only sleep with someone you would absolutely 100 have a baby with like and raise it to 18. I

Emmywould not risk uh unprotected sex no with somebody who I may or wouldn't either one of ten people on the pill get pregnant and you will just keep it I've I actually have never taken the

Amy Dangerfieldpill personally so what you're saying is people can take the pill and then they get pregnant is what you're saying so yeah yeah I mean that sucks but personally from my ideals I'm very very

Amy Dangerfieldproof life at the end I think that where a lot of the disparity comes from is okay where does life start and a lot of people are like okay it starts from when the baby's first mate some people like no it's 28 weeks some people believe it's this or that I think all of us

Amy Dangerfieldbelieve it's wrong to take a life I think the disparity is where does that life start and I believe it starts from inception when

Pixielet's move away from abortion pixie um your thoughts on the following statement women are more privileged than men um again in certain men are more

Alessiaoppressed than women in certain areas like an apology letter for how we were oppressed for so many years a letter or like I think I think men need a letter for how oppressed men have

Alessiawell they started the country they didn't do it for themselves menopause other men in the country I found it founded one of the most free countries

Laurenin the world quote unquote free because it is amazing we have the highest incarceration in the world and also most people live because it depends on who we're talking about because people are

Laurenallowed to do because people are so free to do their actions they're more likely to commit egregious crimes like so in like communist China for instance like as you guys said you feel pretty safe walking around because people are very

Laurenvery scared of the government they're not going to be going out screaming Kim Jong-un sucks dick like you can't even do that bro that's curious that's North Korea bro or sorry as it is Gigi ping

LaurenGigi ping sucks dick yeah I can't really go out in China and Tiananmen Square and like start like doing that you saw Adam with the tanks and the last guy so we we

Emmyhave more for example we got shot up my second year at College I know with what's his face Rogers yeah we have in the U.S we have uh freedom of speech

Emmywhich a lot of other countries don't really have like it depends because one of my friends gotta keep on getting raided by the FBI because he started Area 51 right you remember that he literally kept getting raided every time

Emmyhe would tweet it's like yo let's meet up so like it's like freedom of speech with an astrophy well yeah you can't like slant yeah but you can't just like

Brian Atlasokay guys we're going to lose it we're gonna like go invade uh you can't just yeah I think that it's a big difference I don't think the FBI

Alessiatracking him actually does meet the Brandenburg V Ohio test I think they're constitutionally in the right I think we do need to think about the Esquire I think we do need to take into account

Alessiawho has the most Freedom like within this country people with the most money too Focus to do whatever they want whenever they want and there's

Brian Atlasis that not true I came from Bakersfield so it's not true so you're part black woman okay correct what can I do as a white man that you can't do

Alessiayou remember okay answer the question answer the question I'm a white man what what can I do that you can't okay let's say

Alessiaum we were uh in I don't know I was a prostitute can I say that and you were I don't know where the [ __ ] this is going but okay no this is just that like um as far as like sex work experience whatever

Brian Atlasif anything would have happened that's right you can be a if like everything in your life you need money you can sell yourself

Alessiaif anything were to happen if an altercation were to happen within between us who's going to get in trouble it's going to be me every single time and that is you know it's no there's

Brian Atlasactually they're actually I don't I don't know that might be there's actually pushes to make prostitution legal but they will criminalize because there's no reason for it to be illegal I

Brian Atlasmean forced no but yeah but but you're say you're saying that the the women who's offering her Services uh he will get in trouble but the men it's

Brian Atlasa mutual agreement it's actually the typically the reverse the man gets into more trouble no not John's don't jump what state are you talking about um

Pixiethe procure oh really yeah the John oh that's new then I never knew about that I'm curious what is it this is my I think this is probably highly dependent

Pixieon the state law probably who is more oppressed oh hey here I'll give you a list on how who's more oppressed than what um men are more oppressed emotionally they

Brian Atlasare not allowed to express our emotions without being looked down upon you cry like yeah but women are allowed to score suicide rates okay let me ask you a question but you often hear that because you often hear this talk about oh men

Brian Atlasare the oppressors women are oppressed male privileged most violence the the second minutes after birth

Brian Atlaswho's more pressed let's just say the first five minutes let's say the first 30 minutes of Life who's more pressed men or women what are you boys or girls everyone answer the question

Emmyit's very it's very easy it's very easy the first 30 minutes who's more I don't [ __ ] like women because women are born smaller and Men drink more milk like a baby fight right yeah you have to

Pixieput them up against each other in a baby race crack babies like we can't like it could be a whole ring pixie okay let's say the first three hours the first day the

Brian Atlasfirst no no I'm trying I don't know how quickly after birth this occurs but who's more oppressed men or women okay boys or girls I do not have oppression is not that's not how oppression works okay

Pixiefive-year-olds I would say women are more oppressed okay okay I'm just talking about immediately upon birth sorry okay

Brian Atlasyou ready you're ready

Brian Atlascircumcision yeah okay yeah you could say that's the way that that's also an American thing yeah men sure upon birth almost every single child in this

Brian Atlascountry has their genitals mutilated that's pretty [ __ ] yeah right it kind of came from Jewish

Brian Atlasno no no no it's like a custom yeah but even secular even look let's not but no in Europe they don't do it normally okay but we're talking in America yes there's certain countries probably most

Brian Atlascountries we're talking about the United States as a male if you're born in the United States upon birth your genitals are mutilated

Laurenhis podcast he's upset about his foreskin he wants it back what the [ __ ] he's got it all women for this especially in the Boston stem nurses

Unknownthat's why he loves large labias it reminds him of life [Laughter]

EmmyI can pretend for a brief moment of pleasure that that's just my foreskin that's right you guys messed up though that it's a norm for

Brian Atlasbabies to get mutilated why is it a norm though like where did that I think that's a bigger crime than any of these grievances that feminism is that like a very high percentage of

Brian Atlasbabies it's so funny that you cat you guys laugh about this I doubt hold on I'm gonna be serious here I doubt that you guys would be laughing if it was the reverse if women were having their

Emmy[ __ ] clits chopped off like well it's like Africa they do that if you if we got our lips chopped off we would be less sure and stuff like because men

Emmyalso I exclusively watch that [ __ ] but you know like there are people who exclusively watch uncircumcised people but in the porn industry is like very

Brian Atlashey circumcised dicks and you know small male male sir I would argue that man hold on hold on hold on I would argue

Brian Atlasthat men getting circumcised in the U.S is a bigger grievance than any grievance that feminists have been talking about for the past

Brian Atlasuh ever oh really the right to vote Yes getting circumcised getting circumcised is worse yes

Brian Atlashaving your Genesis yes I would argue that getting your genitals mutilated is probably about it you must have grown up with like dudes in America whose parents didn't do that

Laurenand they that must have been like a super self-conscious thing for them like when they were in the locker room dating girls most men I think in the US are circumcised exactly so if they don't get it they tend to be pretty self-conscious

Laurenabout it they tend to do discriminated against they said yeah they tend to be scared to show women it they like don't want to show it in the locker rooms it's like yeah so whereas I don't know any time in Period where like some women

Laurenhave the right to vote and other ones like who didn't have the right to vote or sorry we're the ones who have the right to vote are like man I'm jealous of the women who don't have the right to vote so yeah it's just everyone here's a

Brian Atlasbigger grievance military conscription that's that's a bigger grievance than all of women's Collective grievances combined no I don't necess I think it goes back to right to vote yeah absolutely right

Pixietotally right you're literally complaining about men men oh oh no men are by the way which I think is [ __ ] up you're delusional pixie okay let me finish your sentence yeah so you can be

Pixielike oh no like men being drafted is like horrible et cetera et cetera men who are in power and decided for themselves oh we should draft other men well whatever whatever they have the right to vote there's a chance to change that while women don't even have or at

Pixieleast if you're talking about any period in time all periods in time or whatever woman didn't have the right to vote right so women could if you theoretically had a society where the men decided we're gonna draft women only guess what if women can't vote they

Laurencan't even write that down this this argument is actually working against you because women when they so first of all when men originally had the right to vote that was when the draft first

Laurenstarted it was linked to men who had the right to vote and then when women gain the right to vote they separated the distinction between voters and those who

Laurenare drafted so now you only have to sign up for the draft if you're a man who is who wants no no no but you must understand what I'm saying women were able hold on let me just come in really

Brian Atlasquick women what uh Lauren is saying is women were able to secure the right to vote without the corresponding responsibility that men had to undertake by being subject to military conscription so you were able to get

Pixieprivilege without the correspondence no no no wait wait you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say what are you saying you're saying that the draft is by far like the worst form of Oppression that a person can possibly have military

Pixieconstruction and I'm saying that at least during that time or at least during the time that men had the right to vote and women didn't there's a possibility of them deciding to turn that over change it et cetera Etc now if for whatever reason in that time period

Pixiethey decided to put that law onto women that women have to be in the draft and they don't get a right to vote guess who can change that not the woman they don't have the right to vote they don't have the right to put their elective Representatives they're [ __ ] that's

Brian Atlaswhy right to vote is the most fundamental right that we have your argument does nothing to uh rebuttal the fact that military conscription is a far

Emmygreater grievance than any other group so I was saying any Village like if you were to have one man and like 100 women if all the men died like they could still be populate the village yeah so exactly men agree with that so men are

Emmygoing to send their woman to die like men aren't gonna like overtake a village and just like kill all the women either they're probably gonna take them back like it's like okay so why would you send your woman to war when your country cannot repopulate without the woman yes

Brian Atlasthere are tactical and logical reasons why men are more likely to be recruited to be soldiers because they're more they make better soldiers however however because of the physical advantages yeah however

Laurenyou choose to keeping the women at home however when it comes to voting I get what you're saying that like voting is the most important because that controls

Laurenthe society and who's required to go to war and I understand that however with it it needs to be tied to the act of potentially going to war because if

Laurenwomen have the power to vote which we do but that they're not tied to the potential issue of going to war a potential issue of being drafted then we can make silly and careless decisions

Laurenwith our voting which can lead to wartime which only negatively impacts men who will be required to literally die for our silly that's another assumption we absolutely don't care

Amy Dangerfieldabout the men in society which a lot of people do they may care but sometimes they they think that oftentimes people make bad decisions under good intentions right as well look at how Obama got

Pixieelected wait the idea that this is only a thing that women do or whatever I don't think is very fair men also make silly decisions now you're saying oh they're tied to the consequence not necessarily they're tied to the consequence of what the majority

Pixiebelieves including majority of men either way I don't think anybody should be drafted I think the policy and literally the way that we get into war is the result of what legislators decide right whether Congress decides like

Pixiewe're going to go to war with this country or not so I think that the only way that Congress should be able to do that is if they're for sure as hell certain that everybody wants to go to war otherwise I don't think the draft

Pixieshould be a thing what we need the draft though like there's if you don't think that your cause is strong enough to have people volunteer for to have the people in your country put the line like their lives on the

Pixieline your country should not be going to war okay but okay but in a self-defense situation let's say you're being invaded yeah chances are and I truly believe this and you can look at Ukraine and you can look at other countries that had

Laurentheir sovereignty in in Jeopardy people will step up to the plane when yes Ukraine Ukraine was drafted in a lot in fact a lot of people were trying to flee

LaurenUkraine and became an issue because women Ukraine exactly and then some people who thought that they were women but it had penises they were not allowed

Brian Atlasso in Ukraine in general yeah I don't think so you really look at this in Ukraine in Ukraine when the war broke out men between the ages of 18 to 60 were not allowed like that could not

Pixieleave the country yeah and I okay I think that's messed up I don't think what is it I think that when it comes to a country if their legislator decides to go to war they better be certain as hell that the people within their country

Amy Dangerfieldwant to fight imagine if you will literally left to the whims of that and it's like oh everyone who wants to fight go fight how stable would that Society feel oh only the people who

Pixievolunteer most of the most most of our military is based on volunteer bases that literally illustrates the fact that like hey it is possible to have a

Pixiemilitary on volunteer basis literally fighting Wars in other countries we currently have it in a world war in something that was really that severe and dry well I mean we've had world wars before and we did have drafts but we also had a [ __ ] ton of people

Amy Dangerfieldvolunteering they were being invaded by another country they were coming Russia China coming at us with full force would we really be saying I just hope all the people who really might go and fight no

Pixiepeople would literally fall force of the country to be protecting us look at what happened after like Pearl Harbor you had a [ __ ] ton of people suddenly be okay with war wanting to go to war like volunteering for war this idea that like

Laurenoh everyone's gonna suddenly cower away when their lives are threaded out online I think that's absolutely what is the strongest like do you know which the strongest army for its size like in terms isn't it the United States or

Laurenprobably be the Israeli Army and it's the draft they have nuclear weapons and everything and for their sock their tiny country and they have like they've fought seven day war they fought off all

Laurenof the countries surrounding them by themselves as a brand new country and the only way that their military works is every single person in their country man and women are forced to serve in the

Laurenmilitary for at least two years in the IDF and so you're saying that that would provide for a weaker military but just like all evidence what do you mean I'm talking about the United States she's

Brian Atlaspro-draft no I'm not opposite um so World War II I'm looking here yeah people got drafted in World War II that's not a surprise but you you were

Pixiesaying you were acting as if the vast majority of people just went in no I'm saying there was a huge surge of like volunteering yes I don't know about the exact numbers but and there were men who

Brian Atlaswere drafted who did not want to go to war who went to the front lines in in Europe or in the Pacific and they're dead

Brian Atlasyeah he died yeah 18 year olds yeah and I'm saying that's really [ __ ] up yeah I think men and women should both be Japanese technology is it more [ __ ] up

Pixiethan women not having the right to vote because if you do not have the right to vote you do not have the right to change

Pixieor stop or add onto the draft our society is built on voting without voting everything else falls apart okay can I ask you a question would you

Brian Atlasrather in let's say 1917 as a 18 year old let's say you're a

Brian Atlasboy get drafted get sent to uh let's see in France and uh go spend three weeks in a trench you get trench foot and then

Brian Atlasthe shell implodes your face in and then you're just dead uh or would you just be prefer to be back home and [ __ ] Montana on your farm and just not be able to

Pixievote and you don't know anything about politics you're acting as if not having the right to vote doesn't change or affect everything in your [ __ ] life okay it's like Freedom right you argue that oh yeah maybe yeah

Brian Atlasand have someone stab you but that's Freedom so maybe this is going to sound like I'm I'm a [ __ ] or a coward but I kind of value living and [ __ ] so if I

Brian Atlaswas 18 years old back in 1917 I think I would as some [ __ ] stupid Farm dude who doesn't know anything about the world hasn't set foot

Brian Atlasoutside my town would I rather just not be able to vote on issues I don't even really know about or get sent to um

Brian Atlaslet's see where where do I get sent to in World War one no not not World War II yeah I get sent to uh passchendale and

Brian AtlasI'm in the trench for uh for two months and uh I I'm I have the Spanish flu and then I um let's see what else you are literally creating a false dichotomy

Pixieyeah and then I just get uh shot okay I'm not dead no do you think no without the right without the right to vote not only can you get drafted but you can also face a repercussions of

Pixielike hey guess what um okay they passed a policy where they say you're 18 year old ass not only gets drafted but has to have like I don't know their ball is tortured for a week before so no that's that's what I'm

Pixiesaying without the right to vote you are literally under the thumb of whatever power or authority structure there is in place you have no Freedom pixie you're trying to say that if you don't have

Laurenfreedom then you then you could get drafted as well yes okay however in this scenario you only can get drafted if you also have the right to vote they're like

Laurenthey're linked together and if you don't have the right to vote you cannot get drafted they're mutually exclusive in this city but the point so would you rather would you rather have the right

Pixieto vote and be drafted or not have the right to vote and not be drafted okay but here's the issue or here's a million dollar problem you're saying like oh no it's guaranteed that you won't be drafted if you don't have the right to

Pixievote but by virtue of not having the right to vote you cannot guarantee not being drafted in America you can no because it is up to the people and legislator that literally control the laws whether you get paid on it or not

Laurenactually eventually yes eventually yes but in history in American history that was never the case so the only I understand that what you're saying eventually down the line if men had the

Laurenright to vote and maintain the right to vote and they never gave women any power and then they started writing crazy legislation requiring women to also become drafted then yes eventually women could be drafted however that was never

Laurenthe situation the situation was always logically linking let me jump into Drafting and after Lauren drafting to voting so in because of that there's never a scenario in which you're

Laurengoing to be drafted and don't have the right to vote so with that being said would you rather have the right to vote and be drafted or no right to vote and guarantee you will not get drowned oh

Brian Atlaswait I'm generally curious here look let me let me come in really quick so just to give a little background this stemmed from me basically asking which I made a

Brian Atlasstatement about I think that military conscription throughout history is worse is a worse grievance than women's grievance of not being able to vote

Brian AtlasI think that is worse than any grievance possible well I I mean I'm also prepared to say like worse than what wait what you literally the statement you said yes I said women's

Brian AtlasCollective grievances but the I I think the ultimate grievance that that women often cite is not having the right to vote oh yeah that is well you also had problems in the past where it was like

Laurenlegal to abuse your wife to like beat the fake news it's never been positively looked upon to be a wife-beater throughout absolutely looked upon an honest Society but it's been like a lot you had to have

Laurenat fault divorces and it was extremely difficult to prove abuse so you'd have to prove abuse in a court of law to even get the divorce which was just okay well we I don't know in the 1700s

Pixiethe frequency of domestic violence in but I mean you have what is it there's like history textbooks talking about like how domestic violence um specifically I don't think it was the

Pixienorm I really don't know it's not about it Joseph was also not the norm the majority of people did not get drafted throughout history but when it comes to like domestic violence domestic abuse yeah it was widely popularized that hey

Pixiethis is something you actually should do you should hate your wife when she gets out of line or even when she doesn't like you you can and you can and it's fine one of my dad's favorite lines from like

Laurenan Irish movie is here's a fine stick to beat the lovely lady oh my God that's a yikes okay comparing military conscription to not having the right to vote

AlessiaI like I don't see how you arrive at not having the right to vote is worse they just sound like they're both held because I mean they both come with like um consequences like not having the right to vote it's not just not having the right to vote you didn't have rights

Brian Atlaslike at all like as a person or are they like women like they were kind of like a sub-genre okay pixie do you know what do you know when um World War II or excuse me World War the dates for World War One

Brian Atlasum I can't remember 1914 to 1918. so women women got the right to vote in 1920 just two years after one of the most brutal at the time

Brian Atlasuh the most brutal war that had ever been seen most casualties most injuries um I think if you were 18 years old in the

Brian AtlasYears preceding that it would be a pretty like an it'd be pretty hard for you to argue that women who didn't have the right to vote were

Brian Atlasworse off than the men that got sent to Europe during World War One and we're Pat where there was forced military conscription all right

Pixieyou are literally comparing basically all women did not have this right yes um they were under the subjugation of either their husbands or fathers it was

Brian AtlasI'm pretty under the subjugation or the protection it's not protection when they can legally beat your ass um you're saying this as if wholesale

Pixiemen were just every day no no I'm saying the fact that it could be any that all women were not guaranteed these protections that's what I'm saying I'm saying that if you're a woman and you don't have the right to vote you don't

Brian Atlashave the right to change legislation guess what like if a man what percentage of men do you think were just frequently beating their wives it doesn't matter about what percentage it matters that you couldn't get Justice for it I don't

Pixiehave it like it doesn't matter again it's not what percentage it's the fact that it could happen and it was seen as normalized and okay if it happens because that's just a dumb lady you know second class citizen like broad should

Amy Dangerfieldisn't even smart enough to vote even today women at the time I feel like didn't feel like that though when you like some of them may be depending on circumstances but when you look back at a lot of the videos from women as a feminist movement was happening they're

Amy Dangerfieldasking them like what do you think about all of this and they're like I don't know about it I don't know about this women's Liberation [ __ ] like this could honestly potentially be bad it could potentially put us in bad situations

Amy Dangerfieldthis could be dangerous I like the freedom to be able to be at arm and be a mother and not have to go out there in the workplace

Emmyfeminism is about like you can either choose to be a stay-at-home mom and not go to work not through the school and it's fine or you can choose to be a career woman so I think that's the point to have the freedom to choose versus

Amy Dangerfieldbefore like it's not normal for women to go to college for example right but that doesn't necessarily equate to them being oppressed and I think that's a big problem is people automatically assume that women at the time were oppressed

Amy Dangerfieldthere's a lot of women who are more than happy doing that and there's a lot to do that and there's but there's a lot of women now today who when they want to live that more traditional lifestyle they are judged by the boss babes of

Amy Dangerfieldthis generation by the women who are making a lot of these arguments that we're discussing here today and literally look down on women who are advocating for a more traditional lifestyle I think true feminists really

Emmyare just for women's Choice like it's for women's Freedom like if you want to be a stay-at-home mom if that's all you want to be that's totally fine just don't judge a woman who is sexually liberated and trying to do their own

Brian Atlasthing because men can choose to do that too and it's okay I think um when it comes to arguments especially we shouldn't shame women for being promiscuous and having high body counts um yeah if we're not shaming men I mean it

Pixiedepends I feel like I'm more so stigmatized for it yeah no women are stigmatized but I think that that is such a cop-out answer though I feel like at the end of the day you both still risk I see these and you both still risk

Pixielike the being a child coming alive out of that Cory does so honestly the whole idea that's like oh no it's just different it's I think it's a callback for consequences so I can biological reasons because of paternity uncertain yeah no and I'm saying the consequences are the same and I don't think you

Pixieshould cope with the idea that like oh no like you still have these immense responsibilities at the end of the day and if you want to talk about Evo psych you

Pixiesure it's not Shadow possibly you're fine now it looked different to how it looked a second okay we're fine okay what up hey I was gonna say and if you want to talk about Evo

Pixiepsych there are strong like evolutionary imperatives for a man to stay with a certain woman to not go like sleep with around multiple because it's harder to guarantee impregnation in that way guaranteed paternity yeah guarantee

Pixiepaternity and then on top of that you know you still restate I see these if you sleep around especially back then so it makes more sense to stay with one woman and then again the consequence of having a child even if your physical body is not going through those changes

Pixiethat you know responsibility that you still feel obliged to so there are strong Evo psych reasons for men to not sleep around that's not what I was arguing I was saying why men are more

Pixiewhy men care more about women's promiscuity well you're I okay I thought that you were arguing that like it doesn't matter if men are promiscuous or there's biological reasons why it's okay foreign

Amy Dangerfieldwould be the opposite I feel like what you're saying is a point for what he is making why we why men don't like women being promiscuous because they want to guarantee their paternity if the woman is sleeping with multiple men he cannot

Amy Dangerfieldguarantee that that's going to be his kid he could become resources no but but here's the thing our brains don't know the difference and yes we had our logic

Amy Dangerfieldand we have our reason but 95 to 99 of everything we do is subconscious we don't consciously think about it it's based off programming and then a lot of the conditioning in that old part of our

Amy Dangerfieldbrain that is literally still dictating our emotions and decisions to this day but why are we so different in our perspectives if we're both similarly programs that's where the nature versus nurture argument comes in so I do agree

Amy Dangerfieldthat nurture does to some degree have some pull it absolutely does but I'm saying on the balance of probability when you put people into an environment and there is no external influences I feel like people will still have a

Amy Dangerfieldnatural inclination or drive or proclivity to act within a certain way everything without any societal pressures and Norms if you they were just free roaming like in the forest

Emmylike we were all like Nomads without any sort of social constructs people would care highly about body count like yes I try I think that women would still feel low self-esteem I think they would still

Amy Dangerfieldsuffer depression I feel like they would still suffer uh suffer uh what's the word it's escaping me right now but they would still feel these things naturally without society's judgments based on

Amy Dangerfieldthem and that's where society's judgments come from we didn't pull this [ __ ] out of thin air and decide let's just make our own rules their rules were

Emmycreated out of natural so I would say that the rules of in the capitalistic Society is created around capitalism and I would say that social economic like

Emmyyour your degree of happiness is largely determined by income like there's like a technical like economics of happiness and the scale goes up like if you're you know making zero income you're miserable here's like the happiness skill but then

Emmyif you make 70 okay a year it's like all the way up here there's like a huge difference and then I I know it like diminishes it's kind of like an e curve but when you make her for 100k it doesn't really make much of a difference to your happiness levels apparently yeah

Brian Atlaswe need to wrap up here soon so I do need to move things along um let me just get in these chats okay we have oh actually Nick can you pull up twitch guys go to twitch.tv slash

Brian Atlaswhatever drops to follow drops the prime sub uh thank you guys for all the uh follows and primes twitch.tv whatever all right we have hold on we have let me see

Brian Atlasuh I think sorry that we're just getting to these now guys um Gordon's fisherman Kathy can you read this one Kathy we need the details so your mom has wait

Kathyuntil Mike was oh Kathy we need the details on your mom asking for Brian um okay

KathyEmmy got a point Western Society failed education and failed women with societal expectations pixie men and women aren't

Brian Atlasequal the East treats women better and more naturally hashtag passport Pros um what are the details on your mom asking for Brian I don't know if I

Brian Atlasshould tell you that like oh yeah you want to set this up after the shows that we're saying all right Eyes Wide Shut hey thank you for the Canadian 50 imagine triple majoring in the result

Brian Atlasbeing straight to DVD Joe Dirt your response pixie I don't know how to respond to that you can roast them back look at he's got some he's doing two thumbs up I don't know you could I don't

Pixieknow I think it's kind of sad he paid how much money Canadian 50 so that's like a dollar American I think I think it's kind of sad to pay fifty dollars Canadian someone Canadian fifty

Brian Atlasdollars to call someone Joe Dirt that was a good movie it's not I think it might be a company I think it's a compliment right right Lauren is probably a complimentary probably probably a compliment okay all right Conan 19 opinion on the man with a lot

Pixieof body hair or zero body hair uh ladies do you prefer body hair or do you prefer a guy with minimal or no body hair

Emmyminimal minimal too much it gets like kind of gross it gets inside it's okay to have a little spine it's just

Laurenlike like the back I don't know you can't expect me to like back hair if they look like a bear I'm out no I won't let me see a little something

Brian Atlasyeah I like I like super masculine so just hairy just like big and hairy okay uh Amy yeah minimal I would say okay all right yeah I want a bunch of soy boys

Brian AtlasI want the pain I mean what if they're like you know gain okay we have dragons Talon thank you man uh thank you very much women could vote before 1920 it was

Brian Atlasjust a state issue not a federal 25 female Mayors hundreds of elected female positions and even one female U.S House of Representative member before

Brian Atlas1920 men were not the only ones who voted for them also this whole like um this whole thing about women not having the right to vote it was a very short

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