Feminist CRIES And WALKS OFF When Asked "Define Misogyny"?! REVENGE By SEX?! | Dating Talk #109

Date: 2023-10-16

Duration: 5h 27m

Guests

Brian Atlas

RRachel (DT109)>

AAriel (DT109)>

YYasmin (DT109)>

BBecca (DT109)>

VViolet Brandon >

MMadison (DT115)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS Reader(audience)

SPEAKER_01TTS/Clip(audience)

SPEAKER_02Violet(guest)

SPEAKER_03Nick(audience)

SPEAKER_04TTS/Clip(audience)

SPEAKER_05Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_06Ariel(guest)

SPEAKER_07Yasmin(guest)

SPEAKER_08Becca(guest)

SPEAKER_09Rachel(guest)

SPEAKER_10Madison(guest)

Key Moments

Key MomentViolet reveals she left her management company (nudies) in 2023, losing access to her 13M Instagram follower account which was technically owned by the manager. Now goes by her real last name Brandon.

“I've been with them since I was 18 and they put me on all of my accounts... I wanted to move on... I had a Instagram account with 13 million followers yes I did and but it wasn't yours”

Key MomentViolet confirms she has made 7 figures in at least one year from her adult content career and owns multiple properties.

“seven figures yeah we could say... have you in any year did you ever make seven figures yes”

QuoteViolet on reconciling Catholic faith with adult content career: "We're in a broken world and I was kind of born into that... I'm just a product of my surroundings."

“we're in a broken world and I was kind of born into that... I'm just a product of my surroundings as I grew up”

Key MomentRachel reveals her high school ex stole and totalled her car, then framed her with police. He had taken her keys under pretense of charging his phone.

“they had my keys little did I know that they were actually going to drive my car they went to get McDonald's into a waste management truck”

Key MomentRachel reveals the same ex faked his own death to try to win her back — had a friend call saying he was unresponsive in hospital.

“he had his friend call me and tell me that the nurses said that he wasn't going to make it and he was unresponsive”

Key MomentRachel reveals the same ex pulled a knife on her at his house, nicked her finger. She escaped by distracting him with sex.

“he pulled knife on me... he just kept repeating it and like why didn't you leave... I had sex with him so yeah it's okay”

QuoteYasmin says feminism and career-focus taught to women is a "mind virus": "I do think it's a mind virus and that's what I was taught in school and college."

“I do think it's a mind virus and that's what I was taught in school and college”

QuoteRachel says about her sex work experience: "I realized — what would my dad think — that's like sounds dumb." Moment of self-reflection.

“I kind of realized oh in the long run like this isn't going to be good for me... what would my dad think like sounds dumb”

Key MomentRachel reveals she had sex with a man out of spite after he called her a derogatory name at Chabad. She laughed during the encounter and he kicked her out afterward.

“I went over there... cuz I was just talking to my sister about how I should be using those... he got kind of I could tell very uncomfortable”

QuoteViolet says she would stop adult content and have as many children as her future husband wants: "I'll pump out as many babies as my man wants me to pump out."

“I'll pump out as many babies as my man wants me to pump out when I get to that place in my life”

OtherBrian asks Violet to say she supports "Big Labia Matters" (#BLM) — his satirical nonprofit. She says it into camera with raised fist.

“I support big Labia matters”

Key MomentRachel reveals she performed oral sex for money via Craigslist on two occasions ($129 and $100) — a man who initially advertised a "poolside catering" gig.

“he paid 50 to 75 for an interview in person with potential for you to make more... I made like 129 and then 100”

ControversyRachel cries and walks off after Brian asks her to define "misogyny." She called the panel misogynistic after a viewer donation told her to abandon feminism. Could not define the word, became visibly upset, said "I'd like to go home," and left despite Brian trying to keep her talking.

“you guys are all just like really misogynistic... I don't know I don't like this... I mean no I'd like to go home”

QuoteBrian frustrated after Rachel leaves: "I literally asked her how she defined a word she used" — defending asking her to define misogyny as a completely reasonable request.

“I literally asked her how she defined a word she used... I was trying to understand her position”

QuoteBrian's end-of-show vent about talent flaking: 10 flakes, stalker calling police before show, talent coordination burning him out, disrespect for people who flew/drove in. "The show is literally sucking the life out of me."

“I'm working 80 hours a week on the show I'm dealing with a bunch of behind the scenes... the show is literally sucking the life out of me”

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

Brian introduces show; lists 10 flakes/no-shows by name. Guests introduce themselves: Rachel (21, UCSB biopsychology), Ariel (23, paralegal/aspiring attorney), Yasmin (32, sales), Becca (29, medical aesthetics sales), Violet (23, adult content creator — formerly Violet Summers), Madison (18, SBCC/Whatever Podcast staff). Violet discusses leaving her management company and losing her 13M Instagram account.

Violet's OnlyFans Career and Catholicism

Extended discussion of Violet's adult content career: started at 18, primarily solo, some girl-girl. Left nudies management in 2023 and lost 13M Instagram account. Makes 7 figures; owns multiple properties. Goes to Catholic church with grandma; had confession. Family knows and is supportive. Reconciling faith with profession.

Relationship Status Round

Each guest describes current relationship status and history. Rachel: single, 4-5 people she is ignoring. Ariel: single 5 months (Christian, virgin, purity ring, no men in picture). Yasmin: single, celibate until right person. Becca: single 1+ year, FWB with ex. Violet: single since 17, all relationships tied to content/work. Madison: in relationship (~1 year, boyfriend Frankie).

Feminism vs Traditionalism Debate

Central debate of the episode. Becca identifies as partly feminist (equal pay/Independence) but also wants traditional relationship. Yasmin is firmly traditional: career focus is a "mind virus" from school, women's purpose is nurturing/family. Rachel is pro-feminist. Violet and Madison lean traditional. Brian argues non-traditional women want traditional men but the two are incompatible. TikTok video reaction: liberal woman who wants traditional treatment from a non-conservative man.

Rachel's Relationship Horror Stories

Brian reads from Rachel's pre-show notes. Stories include: ex stole and totalled her car then framed her, faked his own death, pulled a knife and she escaped by offering sex; open relationship that was only open on boyfriend's end; slept with drug dealer for $129 and $100 via Craigslist; obsessive stalker who printed coloring pages and showed up at her window with a new friend; simp ex who bought a puppy at her joking request and nearly got a restraining order.

Revenge Sex / Getting Back at the Person Who Called You a Bad Name

Rachel reveals she slept with someone out of spite after he called her a derogatory name at Chabad. Matched him on Tinder a year later, went over, had sex, laughed at the condom moment, told him horror stories afterward, and he kicked her out.

Racial Preferences in Dating

Round-table on racial preferences. Ariel: prefers white men, dated black men before but happier since switching. Becca: prefers white men. Yasmin: same race (Persian) preferred but not exclusive. Violet: no preference (last partner was Asian). Madison: attracted to white men (brunette, brown eyes, thick eyebrows); first two partners were Asian.

Height Preferences

Round-table on height requirements. Becca (5'7"): 5'6" minimum, 5'10"+ preferred. Yasmin: above 6 feet preferred. Madison (5'2"): 5'6"+ preferably. Violet (5'0" inferred): not a size queen; high school BF was 5'5". Brian: women's height must start with 4 (jokingly about preferring petite women).

Sugar Daddies, Sex Work, and OnlyFans

Discussion of sugar daddies (Becca had one unintentionally — her spineless ex). Violet's OnlyFans: someone tipped her $5,000 in a night. Violet on weirdest requests: scat (declined), peeing in nature (has done). OnlyFans content restrictions discussed. Whether OF girls simp for men to compensate for their work.

Firearms Ownership

Round-table: would you date someone who legally owns a firearm? Yasmin says yes (protection). Becca: yes (ex took her shooting, changed her view). Violet: yes, owns two guns herself. Madison: yes.

Rachel's Walkoff — Misogyny Debate

Viewer donation tells Rachel to abandon feminism. Rachel calls the panel "misogynistic." Brian asks her to define misogyny. Rachel becomes upset, cannot define it, starts crying, and leaves the show at ~3:43. Post-walkoff discussion: Brian frustrated (was just asking for a definition), Yasmin says it was Rachel's first time facing consequences of her actions, Madison says keeping her crying would not help.

After-show Discussion Topics

Topics after Ariel and Rachel left: love and whether it's necessary for long-term relationships; deal breaker if guy doesn't perform oral sex; most attractive hobbies; would you date a trans person; immigration and 50/50 split debate; Grim Reaper hypothetical (sacrifice yourself or spouse); Alpha/Beta male theory; reactions to streamers Asmongold and xQc Instagram profiles; Violet invited back for Tuesday show.

If a Guy Gets a Girl Pregnant

Brian asks: what do you say to a guy who got a girl pregnant but doesn't want the kid? Panel: step up, take responsibility, use protection in future.

Pro-life / Pro-choice Round

Brief round-table. Becca: pro-life. Yasmin: pro-choice politically but personally pro-life. Violet: keeping private. Madison: goes back and forth.

Wrongful Conviction Loyalty Test

Brian asks: if your boyfriend/husband was wrongfully convicted, how long would you wait? Violet: forever (would be like military wife). Becca: yes, 10+ years. Yasmin: forever. Madison: yes.

Grim Reaper Hypothetical

Brian asks: Grim Reaper says take your life or your husband's — who do you choose? Yasmin: herself. Violet and Becca: themselves (strategic reasoning about husband fighting the Reaper). Brian debates whether self-sacrifice or survival is more "Alpha."

Transcript

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Brian Atlasdemonize typically men because you very rarely hear the term toxic femininity and it demonizes masculinity so my question is if toxic masculinity does

Brian Atlasnot mean that masculinity is toxic if you can separate the toxicity from masculinity what would be left that's not a gender neutral

Brian Atlastrait I still like this all just sounds like word solid I'm so confused by what you're saying I'm so sorry okay what is what is something that men do that is

Racheltoxic that is exclusively something that just men do essentially I mean there's a lot I think that makes a lot of sense but okay okay um I know we were discussing this a

Rachellittle bit before this but like for example if you go to like the biology of like human attraction it's like women do look for men that have resources and I

Rachelguess you can also like tie this into toxic femininity is a lot of women will almost some some women will abuse men for their resources but some men

Rachelwill kind of use that as like a weapon in a sense it's like what do you mean use what their resources as a weapon yes what they like will buy a girl a

Rachelperson throw that or what are you talking about well there's also like sometimes you can like you know Guilt Trip people with that stuff or sometimes you can make someone so dependent on you like dependent on someone's resources I

Brian Atlasfeel like this is getting really off topic I have no idea like well no but I'm trying the the conversation was about masculinity you referenced toxic masculinity so I'm

Brian Atlastrying to get at what you what precisely you mean when you say toxic masculinity CU I'm arguing the position that I don't believe there's toxic masculinity you said whoo you had a big reaction you're like that's a hot take that there's not

Brian Atlastoxic Mas so I'm asking you to provide evidence for the toxic masculinity that you assert exists okay

Rachelgoing see I can't use a lot of what I can very well argue without it getting bleeped oh are you talking about delete

Rachelpeople deleting themselves no um are you talking about sa for example I'll try to use soft terms here as far as mental health and stuff it's

Rachelsometimes toxic masculinity doesn't so much I'm not referring

Rachelto man I don't know how to say anything without like triggering things or who are you going to Tri who who's going to be triggered no words that we can't

Brian Atlasyou okay okay all right fine I'm so sorry I mean that sounds like a cop out but okay um last I mean I guess another question for you questions for you on this um do you believe in like some of

Rachelthese other terms like do you think mansplaining is a thing I mean I like to use that term all the time like I I get caught up in mansplaining to Men A lot of the times and I laugh at myself oh yeah it's just

Rachellike the overe explanation it's also funny like when you tell a guy something and then they turn around and tell you exactly what you just told them but then they like break it down and it's like

Rachelwell I I was the one that just told you that like very clearly okay understand do you do you let me ask you a question do you think toxic masculinity is a

Brian Atlassexist term no do you think toxic whiteness would be a racist term no do you think toxic Blackness would be a racist thing to

Brian Atlassay I don't know who Jesus Christ I clicked the wrong button do you do you think toxic asianist is would be a racist thing to

Rachelsay I mean man okay I am not in a position to I've never heard those terms would it be but

Brian Atlasdo you think it would be racist to say that there's toxic

RachelBlackness well yeah I don't do you think it would be RAC do you think it' be hold on do you think it would be racist to say toxic whiteness well in all my arguments with

Racheltoxic masculinity I feel like a lot of toxic whiteness kind of plays into that so I can't really say wait toxic whiteness Nick keep it on her please you

Brian Atlasthink toxic whiteness plays into toxic masculinity is there toxic

Brian Atlasheterosexual yes okay um you're like literally making me sweat like with this it's it's a little stuffy in here I mean the doors aren't open

Brian Atlasspeaking of which Nick if you could let a little air in please um wait so okay metaphorical hot potatoes making me

Brian Atlasfeel like a hot potato okay okay but so just to clarify uhhuh toxic whiteness uhhuh not

Rachelracist actual thing toxic whiteness I is it okay to say like since I'm white I'm allowed to think that I don't think that's an AR argument I

Racheldon't know um well just statistically in the United States there can I say that can you say oh so okay just to toxic mindness is

Brian Atlasjust a us thing actually no I take that back you could like go through history the other Colonial powers like yeah you know what that's I don't even know where you're asking great word was it a good word to throw in the colonial

Brian Atlascolonialism yes thank you okay yeah I just gave you a layup there yeah see this is you're welcome yes thank you I'm bad with words that was needed okay so

Brian Atlasthere's there's toxic whiteness yes but and that's not racist no but toxic Blackness is that

Brian Atlasracist no I think that's just like not a a thing I don't know what about toxic

RachelLatino no I don't toxic Asian no I don't know I'm looking at this like okay okay okay all right all right what are you getting

Rachelat that's like triggering it's bringing me back to like Middle School like Middle School yeah when you were go to like have to learn how to type and like the little Labs I was so bad at that I'm sorry the

Brian Atlaswindows oh the noise thing okay I triggered you with my windows reboot sound yes okay good time okay um so

Brian Atlasman's is mansplaining sexist it's funny man's plaining is funny um is woman splaining sexist would that be a sexist thing to say what are your woman splaining right

Rachelnow well when I refer to myself mansplaining I've had men refer to it it's like no actually you're woman splaining so I'm just like I don't know but is woman splaining sexist like do you think that' be sexist thing I just consider it like an urban dictionary

Rachelterm okay is that allow is white what about white splaining is that racist I've I've never heard this before also I feel like comparing masculinity and race is just like so

Brian Atlascompletely I I yeah look I I what I'm trying to get at is I like to use the hate speech test and if you replace the second word with other groups and if

Brian Atlasit's either racist or sexist then it's probably not appropriate to say about by the way Nick that was just a temporary thing um so for example if toxic like if you replace that second word so toxic

Brian Atlasblank and you replace it with another group and you determine that it's either racist or sexist or anything it's probably not appropriate to say about men or white people

TTS Readeryou dinner but on another note him pretty sure the septum piercing girl monkey with symbols playing on repeat in her head not a thought no she's doing good guys guys be nice thank you Robin

Brian Atlasappreciate it do you have a response to Robin you sounds like my dad Robin's your dad do you want to ro you can roast him back like if they roast you feel free to roast back like it's cool you know my dad told me the other day he's

Rachellike the human brain's 8 PBS and I told him mine was 10 and he's like yeah with just all that hollow space b your dad and me would probably get along yeah your dad's Legend hey you know what

Violetthere's there's thoughts there that's a good example of like mascul not like masculinity but like you know Chaos and Order they're both necessary so like femininity and masculinity you know men are just going to like be more

Violetstraightforward than women are exactly also oh yeah yeah but it's necessary like you we need that like straightforwardness in life but we also need like the comforting of a woman so I

Rachelthink that's why I said masculinity is necessary also it like reminds me a lot of like negative and positive empathy I guess that's a good example of maybe perhaps toxic masculinity is like in

Rachelrelationships you need both negative and and positive empathy and they say that positive empathy is more important word but I feel like potentially men seek out

Rachelmore positive empathy than negative empathy and then assume that females need more negative empathy than positive empathy does that count h Huh I kind of

Brian Atlasget that yeah can somebody translate that for me I have okay cool because a woman is always going to more be more who here believes in who who here believes in toxic

Brian Atlasmasculinity it's okay it's all right I I don't hate you for if you do Becca she doesn't want to argue okay all right there you have it folks uh I got some you guys were so kind as to provide

Brian Atlassome pre-show notes for us so I'm going to go over some of those pre-show notes so let's see we have uh who do we start with we'll start with Becca you wanted

Brian Atlasto talk about situationships in the male female Dynamic and dating hot take you can be high feminist independent woman but still need to have a man take the

Beccalead yeah so do you consider yourself highly feminist and an independent woman um I

Beccawould definitely say I am pretty independent highly independent um feminist I'm not sure how feminist I am

BeccaI guess compared to sorry you make fun of me just looking up the you're just okay that's how I think I look up there I do that too I do that too I just had

Beccato roast a little bit okay um yeah I guess in terms of feminist um I guess now you're going to be self-conscious I know I'm um so I will look right here um

Beccaright at the microphone I guess when it comes to feminists like are you a feminist I would say yes hardcore feminist I would say no radical feminist no not radical

Brian Atlasfem are you a turf I don't I don't know what that is Turf trans exclusionary trans exclusionary radical feminist oh I

BeccaI don't know um that's a doozy that's a doo that's a doozy I didn't take enough classes in college on that um so you do you consider yourself highly feminist um cuz you say hot take you can be highly feminist independent woman but still

Brian Atlasneed to have a man take the lead so you're highly feminist yes how you consider yourself a independent woman yes okay but still need to have a man take the lead when you say have the man

Beccatake the lead what do you mean by that I mean like I think for a guy to be in his like masculine energy like there does

Beccaneed to be that um he kind of takes the lead and and you know whatever that looks like you know what does that well you tell us

Beccawhat does that look like I will tell you um do ITF I will tell you now right now okay whenever you're ready okay I will you're so ready I'm so ready I came

Brian Atlasprepared um take taking the lead would be like him making the first move um wait can I help out here a little bit okay approaching sending the first message

Brian Atlascarrying leading the conversation soliciting a first date soliciting your number setting up the date carrying leading the conversation on the date paying for the paying for the date soliciting a change of venue perhaps

Brian Atlassolic subsequent dates in the setup and financial responsibility for said dates moving things forward physically closing the distance Gap going for the first kiss and moving things forward even further from there physically and

Beccasexually speaking yeah can you send me that list do you want to send it to one of your guide friends sure so they can get on it

Beccayeah okay no yeah that that all sounds like the guy taking the the lead so yes um so I think probably the easiest

Brian Atlasconversational thread that we can go on this you say you're a highly feminist independent woman who do you think on the first date should

Brian Atlaspay I would say the man okay we'll go around the table on this we'll start uh we'll start with you then we'll go around go ahead Rachel whoever asked the other person out on the date whoever

Brian Atlasasks should pay okay what about you the man the man okay Violet the man the man should pay okay Manan the man the man so

Brian Atlasjust to address your thing really quick whoever ask should pay um I want to go around the table on this again more often than not are you asking guys out or are guys asking you out go

Brian Atlasahead have you ever asked a guy out on date oh yeah oh yeah more often than not though is it more so the guy asking you or you asking the guy I mean I don't remember the last time I've asked the guy guy out on a date so like I would

Rachelsay now it's more highly concentrated with men doing it okay what about you definitely them they ask what about you the man asks have you ever asked a guy out no yeah I'm trying to think if I've

Brian Atlasever asked a guy out no I have not how many First Dates do you think you've been on um ballpark it yeah just

Brian Atlasrange 60 I was run I was running the numbers 60 60 okay beautiful 60 first AES all

Brian Atlasthe 61st AIDS they asked you is that correct correct maybe there was one you kind of suggest okay Violet what about

Brian Atlasyou oh my gosh I'm blanking what question yeah uh more more often than not are who's asking who on the first date is it the guy or you the guy yeah have you ever

Brian Atlasasked a guy guy out on a date uh in fourth grade well come to think of it actually Violet okay never mind we don't have to go there um Madison what about

Madisonyou I've only ever been on two proper first dates but I asked the first one and then my second first proper date it was the man asking well let's remove the

Brian Atlasproper dates from this and let's include like uh just more casual Hangouts who's initiating the Casual hangout the guy or you the guy more so but I would too

Brian Atlasright so on the whole like whoever asks should pay it's conveniently ignores the fact that men are overwhelmingly initiators so if your standard is okay

Brian Atlaswhoever asked should pay for the first date well you might as well just say men because men overwhelmingly are the ones asking for first dates so that that like this whole idea

Brian Atlasof like well whoever asked should pay would make kind of sense if there was some degree of equality when it came to initiative but there isn't equality when it comes to

Rachelwho takes more initiative when it comes to dating I can say the advice my dad gave me in fifth grade which are please tell us men are pathetic and have low

Rachelself-esteem and as a female if you ask them out or give them a compliment like it it you're making wonders for them it makes well yeah

Brian Atlasthat's true because most men never have the experience of a woman asking them out so they'll probably remember that like if you ask an average guy out on date that will probably he'll remember that for the rest of his life

Rachelwhereas most women you get I mean some women get out asked out so frequently they don't even remember it later that day mhm it makes them feel special and everyone wants to feel special it's like that's also why females like when men

Rachelapproach and they don't necessarily want to approach men it's cuz like it feels good and also asking someone out is like extremely terrifying for a lot of people especially men it's like not just especially actually no so what you're

Brian Atlassaying is that women are privileged uh no I would say of course they are okay well yes but you're in the privileged position of never having to

Brian Atlasget off your ass to put in any effort into the beginning of a relationship I mean yeah that's true you just allow men to approach you you get to pick amongst all the men that show initiative I mean

Brian Atlasyeah that's true I've had a lot of guys complain you don't risk rejection yeah really um so I don't know why I brought

Brian Atlasit there but uh so okay we're okay this was the fir uh who pays oh I was just addressing the well whoever I should pay but it yes conveniently ignores the fact

Brian Atlasthat men by default are initiators de facto are initiators so um conven venient uh you said that the guy should pay but you said that you're a highly

Brian Atlasfeminist independent woman so how do you reconcile being a feminist claiming to be an independent woman but still needing to have the man take the lead

Beccaand pay for the first date that's yeah that's a good question

Beccaum I think you can or for me um feel like I think it kind of comes down

Beccato the guy I feel like most guys on average

Beccawant to be the one to pay or to feel in control and or have that ability to

Brian Atlasprovide so sure you're you're not wrong like I think U there is a large proportion of men that are prepared to pay for the first date they're going to

Brian Atlaspay for it they're happy to do it um but that doesn't really answer my question because would you if a guy let's say you

Brian Atlasgo on a date with a guy okay and uh the waiter comes do you guys want anything else and he's like no no we're good can you get two checks please would you have would you object to the guy

Beccaasking for two checks I that I would be kind of confused and I

Beccamean maybe if I'm not being confrontational I would pay my pay the tab and then there probably wouldn't be a second date why wouldn't there be a

Beccasecond date would you lose ATT traction for him or yeah yeah I think I would kind of be off put by that and and

Beccanot maybe I would ask him about it later be like why did you want to split the tab and see what he

Brian Atlassays but so if if it came down to it you guys end up splitting the bill MH is that that's a

Brian Atlaspretty that's a strong negative for you yeah just because in the past I've I've had guys go out of their way to make sure like even before like I never

Beccaeven see the bill come to the table like they make sure it's paid for ahead of time so I've had that treatment and enjoyed that so I

Brian Atlasthink I don't know maybe I've been spoiled well I mean it's it's a holdover of chivalrous

Brian Atlastraditional male behavior when it comes to male men paying for the first dates I guess my whole qualm with men paying for the first date is you ought to only pay

Brian Atlasfor a woman if she also adheres to or believes in Tradition she consid traditional because to me

Brian Atlasit's like you can't be feminist until the check comes like if you believe in gender equality then you shouldn't like and

Brian Atlasbecause if we're talking about how do I explain you cannot recoil at the very idea of gender roles but then expect men to pay because men

Brian Atlaspaying is a gender role so you can't just throw out and discard all the gender roles that have to do with you but then expect the man to still abide

Brian Atlasby every gender Ro that applies to him no yeah no I see your point so if you want to be like you said a highly feminist independent woman enlightened

BeccaProgressive feminist woman who doesn't believe in gender roles and that men and women are exactly the same then shouldn't you pay for your own meal yeah that is fair I

BeccaI guess it comes down well yeah because I do believe in gender roles and then I guess with feminine or uh being a feminist it's wanting that equality with

Beccagender roles so but then at the end of the day I I with the logic of me wanting the guy

Brian Atlasto pay that would be me wanting gender roles why so do you um do you believe in the patriarchy is the patriarchy a thing and Rachel can chime in on this

Beccatoo um patriarchy

Beccaum I believe that for history sake um that the world has been typically dominated

Beccaby men in um place of of in areas of control and

Brian AtlasLeadership but there are cultures that are more matriarch matriarchal okay sure um well I guess my question is why do you support a

Brian Atlaspatriarchal traditional belief of men paying for a woman's time yeah like isn't that kind of the patriarchy like aren't you reinforcing the patriarchy by holding men to this very

Brian Atlastraditional gender role but you're a highly feminist independent woman yeah um yeah I

Beccaguess I mean I've been in situations where I did offer to pay the bill in this were you just not interested in the guy though no I was the one instance I'm thinking of I was very interested in the

Brian Atlasguy but you said you've had like what 50 60 dates mhm First Dates yes with so okay with different men um yes so there's one time that you offered to pay

Beccathe bill but you're a strong independent feminist woman yeah okay um

BeccaI was I think I I didn't I was lacking in self-confidence and didn't feel like I

Beccawanted him to feel the pressure of to buy the meal for me but you were lacking in self-confidence it was when I was like I don't know 19 young you were 19

Brian Atlaswas young okay so but it sounds pretty clear to me if a guy asked to split the bill let me ask if okay before the date yeah I feel

Brian Atlaslike this wouldn't be an organic way to go about it but if a guy was like hey are you cool with splitting the bill and he was asking you to go to dinner I feel like that that would be kind of cringe a little bit

Brian Atlasbut um would you just say never mind on the date for the date when you otherwise were interested in going yeah [Music] um shoot um I guess I would I guess I

Madisonwould still go on the date and and pay the tab split split yeah do you like expect

Madisonmen to pay for every date say you get went on a date with one guy and you kept seeing him after do you expect him to pay for every single date so you really really liked him mhm that's a good question Madison so beyond the first

Beccadate would you like a guy to continue paying for dates I guess it would the first few dates and then few dates and then after that we could have the

Beccaconversation of like hey there would be a conversation yeah if I saw it you know going somewhere and we wanted to keep dating because I I guess I I don't want

Brian Atlasthat pressure of the being the financial provider hold on but we're talking about splitting the bill yes so why you're not being the financial provider you're just

Madisonequally contributing to the start of the relationship the provider would be I'm paying for the whole thing mhm yeah okay so I feel like I've been like if you really did really like the

Madisonguy like I feel like I've been in multiple situations where it's like oh like hey do you mind paying for your I'll just pay for myself and I feel like it's something that you can easily look past especially if you're super duper interested in this guy unless you expect

Madisonhim to pay every single time you're just seeking for financial or seeking for money and for him to provide for you all the time but like are you really all

Brian Atlasthat independent if that's what's all that you're looking for in a guy yeah okay so you said you want the guy to pay for at least the first few dates how many

Brian Atlaswhen you say first few you mean two three four two three yeah two to three three to four and then you would want to have a conversation about moving forward

Brian Atlasmhm is that is that a conversation you would bring up or he let me ask you're you said your longest relationship was 2 years correct

Brian Atlasyes in that 2-year relationship was it did it become 50/50 at any point or did were you guys living together what was the uh we weren't living together we we did get to a point

Beccaafter like I'd say like four or five dates where I'm pretty sure I brought it up like hey like I

Beccacan I can pay for a date and then you could pay for a date and then it kind of became so what's that called like trading off or whatever yeah that way

Beccait's not like we got to split the bill every time and keep track of every penny well okay but So eventually in

Brian Atlasyour two-year relationship it was like switching turns taking turns yeah how long did it take to get to that point was he was he for the guy you dated for 2 years was he paying for the

Brian Atlasfirst dates first couple of dates yeah how long until how many dates did you go on until it's switched I would say four four okay and then is something he

Brian Atlasbrought up or you brought up I believe I brought it up because I and you begr did you begrudgingly be like I guess I kind of

Beccalike you do you want me to start paying um I don't think it was begrudgingly I wanted to be with him and I I guess I

Madisondidn't want him to think I was only in it for to be paid for what do you think it changes about a man if he uh starts paying for the first couple dates then you guys split things

Madisonor just split things initially um I do you think it really changes anything about the way you see them hm

Beccaum I don't I would say

BeccaI I would like to have the conversation with them and

Madisonum gosh um I would just say like if it doesn't change anything about them then what's the point of starting off starting off

Beccathem paying for everything versus splitting the tab um I guess it wouldn't make that much of a difference if I'm really interested in them yeah and they like

Brian Atlaslet's say they really can't like pay for the whole meal or whatever but okay so you said that you're a highly feminist independent woman yet you expect men to

Brian Atlasnot only pay for the first date but pay for two three I assume you'd probably prefer you'd prefer if the guy just continued providing indefinitely I assume that'd

Brian Atlasbe preferable yes okay so I just how do you reconcile being a feminist being independent cuz that word means something yes but having like a very

Brian Atlasvery strong preference to the point where if a guy didn't pay for you on the first date he asked to split you would not want to have a second date how do you reconcile

Beccathat um I I guess I just would think that

Beccait's at the end of the day I would want him to I guess that's the the trade-off with considering myself a feminist

Beccaindependent woman is that I still believe there are gender roles in that that I want the guy to feel like

Beccahe's in like he's still in his masculine energy so I don't know mental

Brian Atlasgymnastics I mean that's what it sounds like that's what it sounds like but uh I mean it sounds to me like you want equality only when it benefits

Brian Atlasyou I mean the guy paying for the first date the guy holding let me ask you when do you want to get married yes eventually would you be do uh will you

Beccatake your husband's last name O um keep

Beccait I I I do the hyphen thing okay um who has final say when it comes to household

Beccadecisions who's the head of the household ooh shoot yeah and I I would love it for to

Brian Atlasbe both of us but this is exactly what I'm talking about equality only when it benefits you so you want to you want a guy to adhere to his traditional gender roles lead pay for the first date but

Brian Atlasyou don't want to adhere to your what would be a very traditional thing tradition taking the Man's last name in the case of marriage that is traditionally what women do yeah I don't have an issue with

Brian Atlashyphenation but you best pay for your own way on a first date if you're about that hyphenation you should pay for your you should pay you should try to initiate at comparable levels that's my

Brian Atlasthing okay you you want all the benefits of traditional treatment from men but you yourself you don't want to be a traditional woman so we got a lot of women who are feminist who love traditional treatment from men because

Brian Atlastraditional treatment benefits women but you guys don't want to be traditional women m because I suppose in some ways not being

Brian Atlastraditional comes to your benefit don't you think that's a bit

Brian Atlasselfish do you have a response or should I move on you can or are you thinking I'll give you more time to think if you'd like

Beccaum I guess in a way it is me being selfish if I'm if I am not taking or if I'm expecting these things of men and claiming to be wanting gender equality

Brian Atlasbut then I don't want it when it's on my side so but you want traditional treatment but you you don't want to take your husband's last name I didn't say you don't want him you but what's funny

Brian Atlasis forget the who should pay that's kind of small you said that you want a man to be a leader right but you don't want a man to be head of household that's a big deal to me you want a man

Brian Atlasto lead but you don't want to be a follower is that correct yeah yeah yeah I got to send the

Brian Atlasasteroid on that one holy okay I guess that you cannot this this is the big thing like forget the ho pay women want men and are attracted to men

Brian Atlaswho are leaders and who are masculine and who are dominant but women have been there's this mind virus of feminism which tells like on a biological and

Brian Atlasattraction level I would say most women want men to be leaders pay for pay for the first date take initiative make the first move do all these things right but you also simultaneously you want men to

Brian Atlasbe leaders but you don't want to be followers and that's the breakdown I think in most relationships is you have women who desperately want men to be strong to be masculine to be leaders but

Brian Atlasyou're not prepared to be followers you cannot be a leader with a mutinous is that the word is that is that mutinous with a mutinous non-f follower I cannot

Brian Atlaslead somebody that's not prepared to follow me you can it's like a dance someone's the lead someone's the if both try to lead it's a disaster if both try to follow it's a disaster someone has to

Brian Atlaslead someone has to follow and that's the problem I you're you're shaking your head you disagree I think if you look if you want to be as a woman you want to be more masculine you want to be more dominant you want to be

Brian Atlastake take more of the lead in the relationship that's your call but if you're a woman and you want a guy to be the leader you ought to be the follower that's the only way it

Brian Atlasworks to in order to lead like let's just look at this logically in order to lead someone has to follow right can everybody let's talk

Brian Atlasabout let's talk about businesses in an organization can everybody be the leader in an organization no somebody has to be the shot caller somebody has to

Beccalead yeah I guess it comes down to trust and maybe I haven't had that like trust in a relationship where I feel like oh like yeah I really want to follow this

Brian Atlasguy maybe it's just like this tension I've had within me too I think too I that's because you've been injected you've been in Ed with the feminist mind virus she isn't looking

Brian Atlasfor a leader then she's not looking for what the end maybe if it's no but she wants a guy to pay for the first date she would not go on the second date with a guy if he didn't pay for the first date which is some like gut instinct

Brian Atlaslike because oh this guy's not a provider that's not leading as a guy I suppose you could say you want a guy to lead you want a guy to initiate you want a guy to do all these

Brian Atlasthings but when it comes time for you to hold up your end of the bar when it comes to your traditional gender expectations you're like I don't like those never mind we're going to hyphenate our last names I'm going to

Brian Atlashave you're not going to be the head of the household M I'm not going to grant you your ability to use your masculine instincts to make

Brian Atlasthe best decisions for this family mhm hey that and that's within your right but what I guess what I'm getting at is

Brian Atlasgo date like a guy who's down to split the bill and is gonna when you ask he's not gonna be uh decisive about what he wants to eat and he's not going to be

Brian Atlasdecisive when he's going to have plans MH he's going to be like whatever you want babe you pick do you want that maybe she does I don't know can I

Brian Atlasask a question go ahead um because by the way I just want to say you know other girls can if you have something you want to say please if you have something you want to say to what I say

Arielsomebody you can come in go ahead um so the whole feminist movement really just confuses me because it's like doubl minded um so I have a question for the

Arielboth of you guys since you guys seem to be um feminists and you seem to be also traditional as well at the same time where do you guys both draw the line between being a feminist and then being

Arieltraditional like where do you draw the line at where you can be feminist in this aspect or more so like no just where you draw the line I don't want to get yeah

Madisonyeah I feel like that's mostly just like what you consider yourself in like what you consider a feminist and what you believe in I guess for

Beccafeminists but I don't know yeah

Beccaum I would say yeah it is hard cuz I do I do want that

Beccathat gender like equality when it comes to women getting equal pay and work and things like that but then there is this other part of me I mean I was raised in

Beccaa very traditional home where like my dad was the Sole Provider and my mom was a stay-at-home mom so I do have that part of me that still wants that but

Beccathen there's this also part of me that wants my own life and or I guess like I want that control in terms of like oh

ArielI'm I'm a providing for myself and I'm making the rules in my own world so it's so are you willing to compromise like let's say you meet the right guy

Arieland he's like traditional and he meets like all your you know checks the boxes right are you willing to put aside the feminist identity that you kind of have a little bit and then jump to being a

Beccatrans transitional woman yeah traditional woman yeah I yeah I mean at the end of the day it's I want

Beccato have that I have what what you want have the I I mean if it came down to it I do want the more

Beccatraditional relationship so that would have to be me reevaluating like what does it mean for me to be feminist and independent if I do want the man to be

Brian Atlasproviding for me and if I do want these things let me ask you a question yes do you think that a traditional man MH who's going to be a provider who's going to take care do you want um you want

Brian Atlaskids right yes do you know how many kids you want um I wanted three but now with financials probably two when you start having kids are you going to want to pull back from work a little bit do you

Brian Atlasthink you'll want to take extended time off of work probably yes how how much time do you do you plan to go get back to work quickly after you have kids or would you would you do you want to be a

Beccastay-at-home mom so I I was just saying that I grew up you know in a very traditional home my dad was the Sole Provider and my mom was stay-at home mom um I think for me I want to be a

Beccastay-at-home mom up until a certain age for my kids maybe till they hit like kindergarten both so like so five years yeah five six years and then if you have

Brian Atlastwo kids so like seven six seven years want to take 6 to seven years off so yeah no that's not wrong I don't think that's

Brian Atlaswell it's not it's not wrong for you to want that but I'm trying to reconcile it with your feminist independent woman

Brian Atlasposition um yeah so I during that 7-year period you want your hus you want to stay at home take care of the kids you

Brian Atlaswant your husband to be Soul bread winner for a seven-year period I'm not saying that's wrong I'm just asking if that's what you want it would be I I'll bring you in in just a sec go

Beccaahead um it's hard cuz I think in my mind in this like Ideal World like I would be stay-at-home mom while also still bringing in some kind of income from

Beccalike a side hustle or something and then a side hustle yeah I don't know what blogging about kids who knows blogging about kids I don't that sounds like a waste of money not going to lie blogs

Brian Atlasdoes that do people even I don't know vlogging vlogging about kids I'm just I'm just bringing in a hypothetical so while your husband is a so bread winner and you just had two kids and you have household expenses and

Brian Atlaschild expenses you you're going to want your husband to go like Drop $1,000 on like camera equipment and like editing and yeah no I know it is a big

Beccacommitment okay I'm just trying to think of other ways I could help bring in money at the time of raising kids so you basically want to provide for yourself

Madisonup until the time you're married and are ready to have children and then you're willing to put all your efforts into being a traditional wife

Brian Atlascorrect I would say yes okay so the question you have to ask yourself is is you might want that treatment from a man but because of your mindset and

Brian Atlasbecause you consider yourself feminist and independent you don't want to take your husband's name you want but you want him to be Soul Breadwinner for a

Brian Atlasperiod of seven years mhm do you think a traditional man wants you do you think like tra first off do you think traditional men are feminists do you think traditional men tend to be

Brian Atlasliberal men um not really I assume you're liberal right I'm liberal to moderate yeah okay so you have the other part of the equation is does the man you want

Brian Atlaswant you you have a of like Progressive liberal women who want actually there's a Nick I I'll find it but there's this video that went viral a couple months

Brian Atlasago I think it's in one of the Dropbox folders um we reacted to it it was a woman in a car and she was saying how she's super liberal and Progressive but

Brian Atlasshe still wants the traditional treatment um I'm going to see if I can find the video cuz that's kind of topical okay but do you think a

Brian Atlastraditional guy who is going to be okay with you not taking his last name and you being a feminist like do you think most traditional men want

Brian Atlasthat [Music] um I don't you don't know think so but so don't you think you should

Beccasorry sorry I didn't mean to cut you off continue the last name thing is funny because I just really like my last name if it was like a lame name then I'd be like okay but but I know I know it it

Beccacomes down to like it shouldn't matter if you know if I had a cool last name or not it's it's more of the principle of

Beccait I guess so anyways that's a side note but um yeah okay I guess yeah I'd have

Rachelto do here you had something soul searching yes my whole thing is is like I think you can be a feminist and still want those things because like biologically like you want a man with resources it's like you're talking about

Rachelhaving a kid someday wanting to support it like that's a biological part of us and like biologically you want a man that's going to protect you it's like you're going to want someone that's going to be able to provide for you cuz it's like hey pregnancy and having

Rachelchildren is hard and like yeah I think men do see it that way I think part of feminism is like it not being necessarily completely transactional it's like you don't necessarily want to

Rachelfeel like you're bought also I don't think a leader is necessarily a provider because yeah you can have a provider but you could like boss that around like you can get what you mean and like I think that's the same as like going on

Rachela first date is like initially you want to see that that person is going to put it in and also it's like that courting like that courtship like you could look at flowers for example like a bouquet of flowers it's like people buy them now

Rachelbut back in the day people used to pick them and it was like a proof of their ability to forage it's like look at all these qualities I can provide for you keep going keep going go ahead and

Rachellike it's nice like I'm not gonna lie like one time some guy like hit me up at like 1:00 a.m. like as a booty call and I was like no you have to go out and like literally pick me flowers like pick me a bouquet and like maybe maybe I'll

Brian Atlascome over it's like it's that sense of like effort have you ever had a booty call though oh a lot yeah okay like two standards this is

Brian Atlaslike what's I mean so okay you have you objected you like almost were offended how dare he ask for a

Rachelbooty call yet you've had plenty of booty calls yeah I've had so many booty calls that I was like you know what I want to feel like someone actually like

Rachelwants to work for it you know it was just like a hey you know what I want can I so did he work for it yeah he he picked the flowers he let me ask you a

Brian Atlasquestion so while he did all this work for it he went out and actually he legit picked flowers yes a whole bouquet he even got

Brian Atlasa variety he walked two blocks for it it was nice um while how long did you make him wait before hooking up or whatever until he finished picking his flowers I thought it was funny oh so you

Brian Atlasy'all hooked up on the first date it was not a date it was a booty call or the oh he so so it was still a booty call but he had to go get some flowers yeah

Brian Atlasthat's so arbit I mean it's funny it's very arbitrary though um mhm and what what's so funny is like women have so much power in relationships I

Brian Atlascan't imagine a guy being able to say to a woman like go get some flowers and then maybe I'll give you some dick

Brian Atlasain't no girl going to be like okay let me get right on it start picking some flow so I can get some di like bro that shit's okay it's also different when you have to ask them to

Brian Atlasdo that you know what I mean they should naturally do that but we had this this was a long time ago we had we went around the table with these some girls and a girl said she told a guy like a a

Brian Atlasguy who was pleasant asked her out and she was like uh she's kind of a fenit she's like uh I don't know um prove uh tell me why I should go out with you prove to me or some

Brian Atlaslike that and like all the girls laughed oh ha and I was like let me ask if a guy if you were interested in a guy and he was like prove to me why I should go out

Brian Atlaswith you all the girls were like I'd just be like who who the does this guy think he is this guy he's got a big ego on to the next boom um

Rachelbut okay so the guy you so okay it was a booty call you said no to the booty call but then heed you flowers and then you said yes to the booty call yeah and then I guess once the booty was over

TTS Readerit was it was just interesting but that's like completely besides the point we're like getting off track en donated $99 toxic feminist is about wanting

TTS Readereverything in females favor but expects guys to be traditional while being a non-traditional hose it's like having eight bodies and forcing her simp boyfriend to be okay that his girl got

Brian Atlasran through shout out to number nine you wish you were number nine uhoh uh yo LP thank you very much for that comment man uh appreciate it yeah I

Brian Atlasmean it's I think that's kind of how dating is you have a bunch of you basically there's an expectation on men that we adhere to our traditional gender

Brian Atlasrules with non-traditional women they want they want all the benefits of equality and all the benefits of traditionalism doesn't make it make sense I don't really get it oh Nick the

Brian Atlasvideo that we were talking about it's what's her name uh it was a new there's a New York Post article I can't find it in the folder so you're going to have to Google it it's

Brian AtlasProgressive woman wants men to pay for dates that should probably trigger like find it for us um okay I don't know what what were we

Madisonwe talking about I don't know paying for dates Bo calls you're talking about her feminist Independence

Brian Atlasyeah um it's just look I you oh you were saying that it's normal like that's what women want like it's normal for women to want a guy

Rachelwho's like provider protector leader etc etc cuz that's like biological yeah like I don't know if you've ever heard of bus but he's done a lot of like David bus I don't know his first name oh just his

Rachellast name yeah but he's a lot of like research with that they like did a study across like 37 countries and outside of like one of them because of like culture Norms like that was the overall take and

Brian Atlassure it it makes sense um let me see here Nick do you have it I'm looking for here I'm going to read this while I'm going to read this while I remember

Brian Atlasseeing Violet on IUN and other social media several years ago glad to see she's still relevant I wish her much success and happiness moving forward F hey thank you man appreciate it um sorry Rachel what were you saying huh

Brian Atlaswhat were you saying something I don't know I was just saying research I think I finished my okay Nick he said you have it I is it is it this

Brian Atlasone oh dude add block rip um no that's not it uh do add Tik Tok to the search term can you pull it over to this screen

Brian Atlasso I can see it yeah um just so we can try to find it um

Brian Atlasgo back um no it doesn't trigger just uh Progressive women Tik Tok men should

Brian Atlaspay sorry guys we're uh yeah that one hopefully the ad block please don't ad block it is uh just turn off ad block on that

Brian Atlaspage do you know how to do it okay very top by the search bar Top by search bar there's a hand sign nope sorry guys give us just a sec click that

Brian Atlasuh pause on the site always is fine just always okay refresh cool cool cool all right if you can pull that up when you can sorry guys we're just getting this article pulled up

Brian Atlashere uh okay I'm a liberal it's hard to find masculine men to date who aren't conservative can you scroll down just a little bit uh I think let's watch the actual scroll down scroll down I think is this the actual video

Brian Atlasno that's just a screenshot scroll down a bit more usually they link that's screenshot there we go uh pause it audio full

Brian Atlasscreen what the you want to know PA pause pause pause pause pause full screen please okay start it go ahead I guess do

TTS/Clipyou want to know pause pause pause pause pause video tab please go ahead realizations I recently had was that as a liberal woman it is really

TTS/Cliphard to find a man who is willing to play the more traditional masculine role in the relationship in today's day and age who is not a conservative a man who wants to pay on the first state who

TTS/Clipwants to open your door who has that want and desire to take care of you and to provide who is not a conservative and obviously as a liberal woman I do want to be respected for my Independence and

TTS/ClipI do want to have my own autonomy in the relationship and not be comined or conform to the traditional female Homemaker childbearing role and most of

TTS/Clipthe men that I've dated who do have that more natural provider masculinity about them are normally conservative so I don't really know what to do because I don't want to compromise my morals and

Brian Atlasvalues just to find a man but am I asking to have my cake and eat it too yes yes you are okay so does that uh

Brian Atlasum does that video kind of capture a little bit of how you feel yeah i' I'd say yeah okay

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