ØF Lawyer vs. Lauren Chen HEATED DEBATE! | Dating Talk #92

Date: 2023-08-21
Duration: 4h 04m

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS Reader(audience)
SPEAKER_01Emily Rainey(guest)
SPEAKER_02Shia(guest)
SPEAKER_03Haley(guest)
SPEAKER_04Jasmine Jafar(guest)
SPEAKER_06Lauren Chen(guest)
SPEAKER_07Madison(guest)
SPEAKER_08Brian Atlas(host)

Key Moments

00:03:23
QuoteJasmine Jafar introduces herself as 28yo OnlyFans creator AND licensed attorney, earning low-to-mid six figures per month on OnlyFans vs six-figure annual salary as attorney.

my name is Jasmine Jafar I'm 28 and I am an only fans creator and a licensed attorney... only fans is six figures a month

00:06:14
QuoteLauren Chen introduces herself as 29yo TPUSA contributor and Blaze TV host/YouTuber.

my name is Lauren I am 29 and a TPUSA contributor as well as a Blaze TV host and YouTuber

00:09:54
QuoteJasmine describes quitting her law firm job for OnlyFans as a "no-brainer" — more time, money, happiness, and freedom.

when I saw that it could definitely be a career for me it was like a no-brainer so more time money happiness freedom

00:12:00
QuoteJasmine describes father's ultimatum to stop OnlyFans; she refused for the first time in her life. Family didn't speak for months before reconciling.

he calls me and he's like you know what this is a terrible thing... and that was the first time in my life that I was just like no

00:24:39
QuoteEmily Rainey arrives late (~20 min in) and introduces herself as 26yo social media and OnlyFans creator, in a 4-year relationship.

yes hi I'm Emily Rainey I'm 26 and I do social media and only fans... I'm in a relationship

02:00:00
ControversyJasmine Jafar vs Brian Atlas (and Lauren Chen) heated debate on mandatory selective service / draft. Jasmine argues draft is not a live issue in 2023. Brian calls her dismissive of men's concerns. Jasmine muted twice via viewer donations during this debate.

the biggest issue for a man in 2023 right now is that he had to spend 10 minutes registering for something that is very likely to not come to fruition

02:02:01
OtherViewer pays $500 to trigger Jasmine's microphone mute during draft debate.

$500 to I think that does trigger a mute that's fine I'm tired of this issue anyway

02:02:59
OtherBrian Atlas mutes Jasmine for 10 minutes after TTS chat insults her credibility as a lawyer.

Nick it's a 10-minute mute on number nine is it all right sorry Jasmine

02:04:05
QuoteAfter being unmuted, Jasmine jokes: someone can pay another $500 and she would be quiet for that.

I'm back oh God I'm sorry I'm sorry guys someone can pay you another 500 I'd be quiet for that

02:40:02
QuoteLauren Chen explains she changed her YouTube handle from "Roaming Millennial" to her real name because older conservatives at in-person events were confused by the screen name.

I started doing in-person events and with a lot of older people and they were really weirded out by a screen name they did not understand

03:12:00
ControversyExtended debate between Jasmine and Brian on promiscuity statistics (GSS data). Jasmine argues access to hookup culture does not translate to behavior. Brian argues women are more promiscuous by capability. Jasmine dissects his logic: missing bridging premise.

you're missing the middle so premise two would have to be women are acting on this accessibility therefore women are more promiscuous you don't have that second premise

03:28:00
QuoteHaley reveals her husband is a dedicated Eve Online player with spreadsheets, fleet meetings, and post-fleet debriefs.

my husband is a pretty dedicated Eve player... he has spreadsheets out and they have meetings about it and then like post fleet meetings

Topics Discussed

00:00:00
Introductions & Show Announcements

Brian opens from Santa Barbara, CA. Recovering from illness. Hurricane and earthquake (5.5) in area; 8 guests flaked. Guests introduce themselves: Jasmine Jafar (28yo OnlyFans/attorney), Shia (26yo model/hotel), Haley (20yo flight instructor/UCSB), Lauren Chen (29yo Blaze TV/TPUSA). Emily Rainey (26yo OnlyFans/social media) joins ~24min in. Politics round: Jasmine = libertarian-left, Shia = apolitical, Haley = fairly progressive-left, Lauren Chen = right-wing/conservative, Madison = moderate/slightly right-leaning.

00:10:00
OnlyFans & Adult Content

Extended discussion of Jasmine's career pivot from attorney to OnlyFans (6-figure monthly income vs 6-figure annual as lawyer). Family background: Iranian immigrant parents, both sister and mom are lawyers. Parents initially disowned her for months before reconciling. Don't-ask-don't-tell policy with family now. Lauren Chen argues adult content not healthy for society; wants stricter age restrictions on platforms. Shia and Emily also do OnlyFans. Discussion of impact on future relationships (Jasmine says it won't affect her dating prospects with liberal men).

00:13:00
Political Leanings & Values Alignment in Dating

Brian asks panel about political leanings and whether they matter in dating. Jasmine: only dates liberal men; would not date conservative. Lauren Chen: right-wing/conservative, shares values with conservative husband. Haley: fairly progressive-left. Madison: moderate/slightly right-leaning. Jasmine argues politics reflect values alignment.

01:00:00
Feminist Debate: Workforce, Gender Roles, and Equality

Extended debate primarily between Jasmine Jafar and Lauren Chen with Brian moderating. Topics: women in workforce, happiness studies (DINKs vs parents), loneliness epidemic, social media's role in disconnection. Jasmine argues correlation/causation issues in blaming women's workforce participation for loneliness. Lauren and Brian argue meaningful connections have declined.

02:00:00
Male Selective Service / Draft Debate

Debate on whether women should register for the draft. Jasmine argues draft is not a relevant issue in 2023 and would abolish it entirely. Brian argues men's mandatory selective service registration is a real legal burden (felony + federal benefit disqualification for failure to register). Lauren Chen proposes service guaranteeing citizenship model (Starship Troopers-style). Chat suggests mandatory 2-year service for all. Discussion of Ukraine as example of wartime male conscription. Jasmine muted twice via viewer donations during this segment.

02:40:00
Reproductive Rights & Child Support

Discussion of men's reproductive rights (or lack thereof). Jasmine argues biology explains the asymmetry (child in woman's body). Brian argues legal paternal surrender and financial obligations post-birth are inequitable. Discussion of Roe v. Wade reversal. Lauren Chen raises mandatory paternity testing proposal and child support transparency. Panel generally agrees child support should be tracked/dedicated to child.

02:50:00
Male Emotional Vulnerability

Panel asked if men crying or being emotional would change romantic feelings. Emily: loves emotional men, boyfriend is large man who cries (makes her fall more in love). Haley: vulnerability makes her feel she created safe space; net positive. Lauren Chen: attractive if contrasted with confidence; dislikes men who cry regularly. Shia: uncomfortable with excessive emotion from anyone. Brian's World of Warcraft hypothetical: man crying over losing loot roll in-game. Lauren notes husband rages about Eve Online with spreadsheets and post-fleet meetings.

03:06:40
Dating Norms: Who Pays, Who Asks

Round-table discussion on first date bill splitting. Jasmine: person who asks should pay (expects man to pay if he asked her; she would pay if she asked a man). Shia: fine splitting separately. Emily: would not object and would sometimes offer to pay whole bill. Lauren Chen: fine splitting, did pay for dates when single. Madison: would love man to pay but fine either way. Brian argues men are default initiators and therefore bear both asking and paying burdens — inconsistency with Jasmine's egalitarian positions elsewhere.

03:12:00
Attractiveness Ratings & Self-Assessment

Discussion triggered by Brian on utility of 1-10 scale. Jasmine argues scale is juvenile and subjective (cites cultural variations in beauty standards, Statue of Aphrodite). Brian argues self-awareness is important especially for women to avoid delusional dating expectations. Lauren argues someone out there will find you beautiful but reality-checking matters. Emily says her self-assessment fluctuates day to day. Haley notes uniqueness of individual preferences.

03:18:00
Body Count, Promiscuity Stats, and Pair Bonding

Extended debate on body count and promiscuity. Jasmine argues lifetime body count does not correlate with marriage likelihood (cites studies). Brian disputes using 2018 GSS data showing 1-in-3 men under 30 sexless vs 1-in-6 women. Jasmine counters with 2021/2022 GSS data showing women more sexless. Brian argues women have more access to hookup culture therefore are more promiscuous by capability; Jasmine disputes that access translates to behavior. Lauren Chen argues correlation between body count and pair bonding risk. Debate on whether hookup culture is overrepresented in manosphere discourse.

03:54:36
Firearms Ownership in a Partner

Final round question: would you date a man who legally owns a firearm? Jasmine: yes, no issue. Emily: yes, provides security. Lauren Chen: yes, husband has several. Haley: context-dependent; hesitant about urban setting but could accept. Madison: fine. Brian's home-invasion scenario sparks extended discussion with Haley defending non-firearm deterrence options. Lauren Chen notes UK/US difference in home-invasion rates attributed to firearm ownership.

Transcript

Page 5 of 5
03:51:19
Brian Atlaspromiscuous but if it's if it it has to be acted upon and women aren't acting if there was equality in the sexual Marketplace then yes men would be more promiscuous because that's men's sexual
03:51:31
Jasmine Jafarstrategy is to just sleep with a whole bunch of women so what I'm saying is what we're seeing is that women have all these options and they're choosing generally except for some women who do want to engage in hookup culture most of them the vast majority of them are
03:51:43
Brian Atlaschoosing to have sex with one partner if we're looking at all the the GSS studies and all that okay well we can go circles on this here let me I
03:51:53
Brian Atlaswant to wrap up the show so uh we have KV Moga or wait uh Brian the O girl increased her sales 13% after fnf and throw them under the bus begging
03:52:04
Jasmine Jafarbeginning beginning of the podcast no Integrity she's a BS lawyer and have BS facts I didn't increase it 133% I said overall the poll I did shows 13 % is coming from all of these appearances
03:52:16
Jasmine Jafarslash like like Business Insider did a pizza on me like those kind of things so word I wish it was 13% hopefully I can go check right now my income went up by 13% after this let's see okay there you have it folks hopefully manifest it uh
03:52:29
Shiaoh last question we're not going to get to uh the Logan Paul stuff tonight CU we're just it's late we've been waiting till since 700 p.m. to know day what the
03:52:39
Brian Atlashell's going on with Logan Paul uh last just last question would uh would you date a guy who legally owned a firearm let's start with you I think it depends on the context if
03:52:51
Haleywe live out in the back you know in the wilderness in Alaska somewhere yeah absolutely setting I mean I would just be confused as to why he felt the need to have it I don't know it just doesn't seem
03:53:03
Haleynecessary it's a it's a tool right it's it's a self-defense in an urban setting I mean that's where you need it the most ideal I mean
03:53:16
Brian Atlashere we'll let everybody answer but okay Jasmine we'll go with you and we'll go uh would I date a guy who legally owns a firearm yeah sure just one yeah good
03:53:26
Emily Raineywith just one it she don't need a whole one he owns a couple whatever sure why not yeah I definitely would I have like a weird fear of like an intruder at
03:53:39
Emily Raineynight or something and I do like the idea of like we have one just in case yeah uh my husband has several Firearms so yes
03:53:49
Haleyabsolutely okay uh so you said no well it I don't I'm not anti-gun like I think recreationally they're fun and you know it and I think if you I just I don't
03:54:02
Haleyknow and for me I guess I don't have very much experience in an urban setting you know in a populated area I just I doesn't like I don't know I don't know in my mind it's like oh you need a gun because there's you know some sort of
03:54:15
Haleyanimal or something like that and it's just like I don't know I I guess I haven't thought about much about it yeah I don't I mean there's ways to prevent that that's a very preventable thing is it you can prevent you can lock your doors you can have you know security
03:54:28
Brian Atlasfootage you can have alarms you well security footage you can live in a building with a doorman like okay let's say you don't have any of those things that's what I'm
03:54:38
Haleysaying if it's a circumstance where it would make sense for you to need need a gun then yeah I guess but I your current place you live do is there a door man no
03:54:50
HaleyI I live in a community of college students and it's there's a very large police presence and I lock the doors and close the windows at night and it's fine okay uh well okay here's a scenario
03:55:02
Brian Atlasright let's say you living with your do you live with your boyfriend's I do not you don't okay maybe one day you're living with a partner
03:55:12
Brian Atlasuh three men are starting to break into your house that you share with your boyfriend mhm uh would you want your boyfriend to have uh a firearm to defend
03:55:24
Haleythe home defend you in that situation I mean I don't think it's necessary that he has a gun to defend like I mean turn on all the turn on all the lights hit the car alarm startle like you know call
03:55:35
Haleythe police call sure you that's not they're not there but so that's not sometimes you don't have enough time to just right but I don't you know I don't having a gun isn't necessarily perfect in every situation either it's so much
03:55:47
Haleymore complex than that and also you know if if they have a gun and you have a gun like no one's winning that you know I mean if you're a good shot you know but uh quick drop I mean you just quick drop
03:55:59
Brian Atlasokay it sense in some circumstances I'm not about how about this uh none of them have guns okay would you prefer your
03:56:08
Haleyyour boyfriend to attempt to expel the evaders with his own Fists or with a gun I mean I don't know I don't I think if
03:56:19
Haleythey if it's possible if it's if it would be realistically possible for them to be freaked out that there's people home CU in my mind when someone's breaking in they're not they want an easy thing they're not trying to have a
03:56:32
Brian Atlasfight they're trying to go into a home where no one's there you don't know that just what what if let's say you have kids too who knows these guys are deranged they're on meth whatever
03:56:43
Brian Atlaswho knows I mean I I okay I they I don't know what you're trying to like he does you're okay you have you can choose any weapon
03:56:54
Brian Atlasfor your boyfriend it could be a truche it well that doesn't make a difference you can give them a trebuchet but they they don't have a weapon they just have their hands but it's three of
03:57:05
Haleythem and one of your boyfriends well the weapon doesn't matter it's a weapon the gun versus a giant knife I mean it's going to have a SAR simar difference between getting into a knife
03:57:17
Haleyfight well I think in my when I think about it I think about it if you walk out with a rifle in your hand regardless if you actually shoot it even if there's ammo in it that is what's going to do
03:57:29
Haleythe scaring so if you walk out with your massive Katana or whatever that's also going to have a similar effect of that's what's doing the scaring away of The
03:57:37
ShiaIntruders or you know Katana and Glock yeah know haven't you seen those like action movie scenes where like the guy comes out like wielding all these knives and then they just shoot him and
03:57:50
Emily Raineyfights over wait okay I actually haven't seen that
03:57:59
Brian Atlasum I don't know do you want your partner to have a firearm in that circumstance I mean I I don't I don't
03:58:09
Brian Atlasthink having a like specific firearm is going to make make like a huge difference I mean maybe I don't know would you would you rather your boyfriend defend you with a firearm or
03:58:21
Haleywith his fists well obviously a firearm any weapon right it doesn't matter but I think I think it's kind of a moot point because there's so many ways to kind of prevent this situation and are there
03:58:32
Lauren Chenyeah really if you had your home broken into home invasions where people are in the home is is pretty rare it does it's only pretty rare or rarer in
03:58:43
Lauren Chenplaces like the United States in places like the UK it's actually very live the United States but why but do you know why that there's the difference a lot of people say it is because of the firearm ownership in the United States because those like uh I forget what they're
03:58:56
Lauren Chencalled hot break-ins when you're actually home and someone breaks in they're they're very very common in other places but not here and it is because I think there's the fear of the firearm right you're just and that's fine people can be scared of a farm that
03:59:09
Lauren Chendoesn't mean well I mean they they've done studies like kind of doing like correlations separated the yeah that's a pretty easy thing to do especially like if you're looking at somewhere like like Europe obviously
03:59:21
Lauren Chenthere's a I would always love to have more variables in a study rather than fewer but that is one of the pretty I mean you also have like demographic overall crime and stuff so like what about so was this found in Europe in
03:59:31
Jasmine Jafargeneral or just the UK because UK specifically is the one I'm familiar i' be curious as to like all because France or or Sweden or Denmark or these places too cuz they tend to have less crime in general if and they don't have firearm
03:59:44
Lauren Cheneither so I'd be curious Australia you know I'm not saying that the I don't know about the rates of break-ins but we're talking about break-ins happening versus you're here versus you're not there yeah so I'm curious if it's just because if it's just UK I don't think it
03:59:56
Brian Atlaswould lead because we'd have to see if it was in other countries too also ideally different US states sure all right there you have it folks uh any final thoughts before I wrap up
04:00:08
Brian Atlasspeak now forever hold your subscribe my only fans don't do that guys don't do it don't do it they will final thought I mean I had all
04:00:19
TTS Readerthese questions ready and we never got to them what were your what were your questions n it's too it's too late now last Bender the offender donated
04:00:30
TTS Reader$99 if I were a thief sneaking into your house and I your partner is pointing a 12 gauge at me I would leave yes and if my if my partner also you came in through the garage and he he walked in
04:00:43
Shiaturned on the light started screaming at you and then hit the car alarm button you would also probably leave depends what their motivation is I've never heard the car alarm one like
04:00:53
Jasmine Jafaroh someone's going off hit the hit the panic button yeah make people run away because it causes noise neighbors loose energy donated
04:01:03
TTS Reader$99 Brian's new intro welcome to the insufferable podcast welcome you could have been anywhere in the world you probably should have I apologize for
04:01:14
Brian Atlasthat drugs and alcohol highly recommended all right there you have it uh LP thank you very much for much appreciated uh final thought Lauren Mary
04:01:26
TTS Readeruh thank you so much for having me on I appreciate it and if people want to hear more of me you can find me on YouTube Lauren Chen oh got another one Raven DT donated
04:01:36
TTS Reader$100 this is why military service should be compulsory for both men and women it's clear none of the women have been in life or death situation even military
04:01:46
Haleypilots carry firearms when on Military flight Ops over hostile territory I'm very grateful that we have a military so I don't have to be in a life or death situation on a daily basis
04:01:58
Haleythat's why we have a military to protect ordinary CI citizens and of course military aircraft have weapons on board it's a military aircraft that makes sense and we're lucky to live in a country where we're not facing those situations as much as other countries
04:02:11
Jasmine Jafarare the majority of us are going to go through our lives with without a life or death situation and we should all be grateful for that and I don't think men's only role in society should be protecting women in this post-apocalypse
04:02:21
Brian Atlasthese scenarios that people come up with weird by the way why did you change uh your name from roaming Millennial to just your name oh I started doing in-person events and with a lot of older
04:02:34
Lauren Chenpeople as well because it's like right conservative politics and they were really weirded out by a screen name they did not understand like yeah you are the roming m so what's your name it's like no but that's like what I got it was
04:02:44
Lauren Chenjust easier to yeah probably better to go with just your name and no one does that any that's so 2016 to have the screen name moniker thing people usually just do the name now so yeah or there's
04:02:57
Lauren Chenjust some people that still want to like have some semblance of uh like anonymity or privacy even though yeah that's true that's true but uh but that also makes inperson events harder too so oh yeah I
04:03:09
Brian Atlascan imagine well it was a good it was a good thing uh everybody check out uh everyone's Instagrams are in the description if you want to go follow everybody um thank you guys for uh bearing with me here I've kind of been
04:03:21
Brian Atlasdying the whole show still kind of getting over my sickness I so appreciate it guys guys last call hit the like button please on your way out thank you for tuning in tonight you could have been anywhere in the world but you were
04:03:33
Brian Atlashere with me I appreciate that thank you to everyone who super chats donates and uh so generously supports the show means the world uh
04:03:44
Brian AtlasArab Money 52 Mitch Jones thank you for the uh champagne pop much appreciated you're you're a legend thank you to the wonderful panel tonight for uh coming
04:03:54
Brian Atlashere I know you guys braved the uh treacherous hurricane conditions that and earthquake yeah there was okay there was a hurricane and an earthquake 5.5
04:04:05
Brian Atlasyeah yeah the epicenter was in ohigh yeah just like what 20 mil away so uh thank you to our chat mods thank you to Brit who's helping with time stamps any women who want to be be on the show DM
04:04:14
Brian Atlasat whatever on Instagram we we will be live again Tuesday a little early we're going to be live at 6 p.m. Pacific got
04:04:23
Brian Atlassome interesting guests planned for that uh that day it might be Adam 22 it might not we'll see um that'll definitely be a
04:04:34
Brian Atlasvery interesting conversation I think his wife is coming and um got some other interesting guests for that so uh be sure to tune in on Tuesday and we're going to start early 6 p.m I think so uh
04:04:46
Brian Atlasyeah we'll see you guys next time good night 07s in the chat and