ØF Lawyer vs. Lauren Chen HEATED DEBATE! | Dating Talk #92

Date: 2023-08-21

Duration: 4h 04m

Guests

Brian Atlas

JJasmine Jafar >

MMadison (DT94)>

EEmily Rainey (DT92)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS Reader(audience)

SPEAKER_01Emily Rainey(guest)

SPEAKER_02Shia(guest)

SPEAKER_03Haley(guest)

SPEAKER_04Jasmine Jafar(guest)

SPEAKER_06Lauren Chen(guest)

SPEAKER_07Madison(guest)

SPEAKER_08Brian Atlas(host)

Key Moments

QuoteJasmine Jafar introduces herself as 28yo OnlyFans creator AND licensed attorney, earning low-to-mid six figures per month on OnlyFans vs six-figure annual salary as attorney.

“my name is Jasmine Jafar I'm 28 and I am an only fans creator and a licensed attorney... only fans is six figures a month”

QuoteLauren Chen introduces herself as 29yo TPUSA contributor and Blaze TV host/YouTuber.

“my name is Lauren I am 29 and a TPUSA contributor as well as a Blaze TV host and YouTuber”

QuoteJasmine describes quitting her law firm job for OnlyFans as a "no-brainer" — more time, money, happiness, and freedom.

“when I saw that it could definitely be a career for me it was like a no-brainer so more time money happiness freedom”

QuoteJasmine describes father's ultimatum to stop OnlyFans; she refused for the first time in her life. Family didn't speak for months before reconciling.

“he calls me and he's like you know what this is a terrible thing... and that was the first time in my life that I was just like no”

QuoteEmily Rainey arrives late (~20 min in) and introduces herself as 26yo social media and OnlyFans creator, in a 4-year relationship.

“yes hi I'm Emily Rainey I'm 26 and I do social media and only fans... I'm in a relationship”

ControversyJasmine Jafar vs Brian Atlas (and Lauren Chen) heated debate on mandatory selective service / draft. Jasmine argues draft is not a live issue in 2023. Brian calls her dismissive of men's concerns. Jasmine muted twice via viewer donations during this debate.

“the biggest issue for a man in 2023 right now is that he had to spend 10 minutes registering for something that is very likely to not come to fruition”

OtherViewer pays $500 to trigger Jasmine's microphone mute during draft debate.

“$500 to I think that does trigger a mute that's fine I'm tired of this issue anyway”

OtherBrian Atlas mutes Jasmine for 10 minutes after TTS chat insults her credibility as a lawyer.

“Nick it's a 10-minute mute on number nine is it all right sorry Jasmine”

QuoteAfter being unmuted, Jasmine jokes: someone can pay another $500 and she would be quiet for that.

“I'm back oh God I'm sorry I'm sorry guys someone can pay you another 500 I'd be quiet for that”

QuoteLauren Chen explains she changed her YouTube handle from "Roaming Millennial" to her real name because older conservatives at in-person events were confused by the screen name.

“I started doing in-person events and with a lot of older people and they were really weirded out by a screen name they did not understand”

ControversyExtended debate between Jasmine and Brian on promiscuity statistics (GSS data). Jasmine argues access to hookup culture does not translate to behavior. Brian argues women are more promiscuous by capability. Jasmine dissects his logic: missing bridging premise.

“you're missing the middle so premise two would have to be women are acting on this accessibility therefore women are more promiscuous you don't have that second premise”

QuoteHaley reveals her husband is a dedicated Eve Online player with spreadsheets, fleet meetings, and post-fleet debriefs.

“my husband is a pretty dedicated Eve player... he has spreadsheets out and they have meetings about it and then like post fleet meetings”

Topics Discussed

Introductions & Show Announcements

Brian opens from Santa Barbara, CA. Recovering from illness. Hurricane and earthquake (5.5) in area; 8 guests flaked. Guests introduce themselves: Jasmine Jafar (28yo OnlyFans/attorney), Shia (26yo model/hotel), Haley (20yo flight instructor/UCSB), Lauren Chen (29yo Blaze TV/TPUSA). Emily Rainey (26yo OnlyFans/social media) joins ~24min in. Politics round: Jasmine = libertarian-left, Shia = apolitical, Haley = fairly progressive-left, Lauren Chen = right-wing/conservative, Madison = moderate/slightly right-leaning.

OnlyFans & Adult Content

Extended discussion of Jasmine's career pivot from attorney to OnlyFans (6-figure monthly income vs 6-figure annual as lawyer). Family background: Iranian immigrant parents, both sister and mom are lawyers. Parents initially disowned her for months before reconciling. Don't-ask-don't-tell policy with family now. Lauren Chen argues adult content not healthy for society; wants stricter age restrictions on platforms. Shia and Emily also do OnlyFans. Discussion of impact on future relationships (Jasmine says it won't affect her dating prospects with liberal men).

Political Leanings & Values Alignment in Dating

Brian asks panel about political leanings and whether they matter in dating. Jasmine: only dates liberal men; would not date conservative. Lauren Chen: right-wing/conservative, shares values with conservative husband. Haley: fairly progressive-left. Madison: moderate/slightly right-leaning. Jasmine argues politics reflect values alignment.

Feminist Debate: Workforce, Gender Roles, and Equality

Extended debate primarily between Jasmine Jafar and Lauren Chen with Brian moderating. Topics: women in workforce, happiness studies (DINKs vs parents), loneliness epidemic, social media's role in disconnection. Jasmine argues correlation/causation issues in blaming women's workforce participation for loneliness. Lauren and Brian argue meaningful connections have declined.

Male Selective Service / Draft Debate

Debate on whether women should register for the draft. Jasmine argues draft is not a relevant issue in 2023 and would abolish it entirely. Brian argues men's mandatory selective service registration is a real legal burden (felony + federal benefit disqualification for failure to register). Lauren Chen proposes service guaranteeing citizenship model (Starship Troopers-style). Chat suggests mandatory 2-year service for all. Discussion of Ukraine as example of wartime male conscription. Jasmine muted twice via viewer donations during this segment.

Reproductive Rights & Child Support

Discussion of men's reproductive rights (or lack thereof). Jasmine argues biology explains the asymmetry (child in woman's body). Brian argues legal paternal surrender and financial obligations post-birth are inequitable. Discussion of Roe v. Wade reversal. Lauren Chen raises mandatory paternity testing proposal and child support transparency. Panel generally agrees child support should be tracked/dedicated to child.

Male Emotional Vulnerability

Panel asked if men crying or being emotional would change romantic feelings. Emily: loves emotional men, boyfriend is large man who cries (makes her fall more in love). Haley: vulnerability makes her feel she created safe space; net positive. Lauren Chen: attractive if contrasted with confidence; dislikes men who cry regularly. Shia: uncomfortable with excessive emotion from anyone. Brian's World of Warcraft hypothetical: man crying over losing loot roll in-game. Lauren notes husband rages about Eve Online with spreadsheets and post-fleet meetings.

Dating Norms: Who Pays, Who Asks

Round-table discussion on first date bill splitting. Jasmine: person who asks should pay (expects man to pay if he asked her; she would pay if she asked a man). Shia: fine splitting separately. Emily: would not object and would sometimes offer to pay whole bill. Lauren Chen: fine splitting, did pay for dates when single. Madison: would love man to pay but fine either way. Brian argues men are default initiators and therefore bear both asking and paying burdens — inconsistency with Jasmine's egalitarian positions elsewhere.

Attractiveness Ratings & Self-Assessment

Discussion triggered by Brian on utility of 1-10 scale. Jasmine argues scale is juvenile and subjective (cites cultural variations in beauty standards, Statue of Aphrodite). Brian argues self-awareness is important especially for women to avoid delusional dating expectations. Lauren argues someone out there will find you beautiful but reality-checking matters. Emily says her self-assessment fluctuates day to day. Haley notes uniqueness of individual preferences.

Body Count, Promiscuity Stats, and Pair Bonding

Extended debate on body count and promiscuity. Jasmine argues lifetime body count does not correlate with marriage likelihood (cites studies). Brian disputes using 2018 GSS data showing 1-in-3 men under 30 sexless vs 1-in-6 women. Jasmine counters with 2021/2022 GSS data showing women more sexless. Brian argues women have more access to hookup culture therefore are more promiscuous by capability; Jasmine disputes that access translates to behavior. Lauren Chen argues correlation between body count and pair bonding risk. Debate on whether hookup culture is overrepresented in manosphere discourse.

Firearms Ownership in a Partner

Final round question: would you date a man who legally owns a firearm? Jasmine: yes, no issue. Emily: yes, provides security. Lauren Chen: yes, husband has several. Haley: context-dependent; hesitant about urban setting but could accept. Madison: fine. Brian's home-invasion scenario sparks extended discussion with Haley defending non-firearm deterrence options. Lauren Chen notes UK/US difference in home-invasion rates attributed to firearm ownership.

Transcript

Page 4 of 5

Lauren Chencan you do things like gas like how exactly I I mean I think if it's indirect like obviously if you have care of the kids you're going to be driving around and things like that and I think something like a card or even a joint

Jasmine Jafarbank account where you can both monitor purchases I think would do a lot to bring more transparency to something it would just be really hard practic like let's say you spend $100 at Target all the statement shows is that you spend

Lauren Chen$100 on at Target are we Ian when we when we itemize for business expenses we have to keep our receipts I don't think it's unreasonable for like if you're using that money for something to just keep a receipt I think as long as we can

Jasmine Jafartake that burden off of the single mom who already has a billion other things to worry about then to also have to add this additional hurdle I think if we can eliminate that then I'm for it because it's really hard to I mean

Jasmine Jafaryeah I run a business you may run a business it's not easy and and I mean you and I probably make enough that we can delegate it onto our CP like single moms a lot of them aren't in that position financially to be able to do that so I just want to make sure that

Lauren Chenwhatever policy you're trying to advocate for won't have an un um a a huge burden those yeah yeah I mean I I I I don't really know what the minutia of that would look like but I do remember what I was going

Lauren Chento say um regarding you guys talking about whether women Fair better or worse in divorce I think there's a difference between saying women men tend to uh Faire better financially in the divorce terms than men while also recognizing

Lauren Chenthat after the fact a woman is more likely to do worse financially compared to when she was in the marriage which I think is what you two are disagreeing about what you're actually talking about yeah so there this idea that women are just getting divorced because they want

Jasmine Jafarall this money when they tend to actually do and that's one of the reasons I think college educated women and people with more resources are more likely to initiate because I think for a lot of women who don't have their own resources one of the reasons maybe they don't get divorced is because they know

Brian Atlasthat their standard of living will inev inevitably decrease I mean but if the man's the bread winner and she wants a divorce wouldn't it stand to reason that

Jasmine Jafaryou no longer get access to the benefits of that partnership it depends like if she if gave up a career and everything and they have this um system where it's like I will be the bread winner and

Jasmine Jafaryou've given up your career to raise the kids I think this is why these rules were implemented in the first place it's like okay because you did that we we don't want do you want to leave women like that highend dry women who's stayed home

Lauren Chenraised the kids raised three four kids and then the guy runs off with his with has an affair and runs off she should be left with nothing well I think that's why we used to not have like no fault divorce is because those kind of

Lauren Chensituations it does matter how the marriage ends obviously if if a woman is married to someone she invests you know her youth her livelihood taking care of the kids taking care of him and then he you know does her dirty basically is

Lauren Chenvery different than if a woman is just for example a trophy wife doesn't work doesn't have kids and then she wants to divorce them so like I I'm for majority of divorces are these Trophy Wife situations or do you think divorce is

Jasmine Jafarsuper hard for both sexes no matter the circumstances and people aren't just doing it willy-nilly to get a paycheck especially when we're seeing at least statistically it doesn't seem like women are getting this paycheck unless you're using you know Melinda Gates as an example it's not the it's not the

Jasmine Jafarreality for most women and I don't think women I don't think people should be forced to stay in a divorce unless the government has like okay you were cheated on and you have to prove it like that's just going to open up a well we're not just talking about staying in marriage we're talking about whether he

Jasmine Jafarmight actually have to pay to support her so obviously it's like so you're saying he should only have to pay to support her if there's a reason if there's two people and she's home taking care of the kids he's off let's say he didn't cheat but let's say they're just like hey this isn't working I'm really

Jasmine Jafarunhappy you're really unhappy we're arguing let's get a divorce she she shouldn't even though she gave up all those years raising the kids she shouldn't get anything out of that I guess it depends on who files

Lauren Chenwho files for divorce yeah absolutely I I think alimony as a concept has been really overused and I think that's a lot of the reason why young men especially are hesitant to get married is because

Lauren Chenthere's for a lot of men they don't see any benefit from it you're just putting yourself at at a disadvantage if someday she could say you know what I'm not really feeling this anymore I'm going to divorce you but you're still going to be responsible for paying for me for the

Jasmine Jafarrest of your life like I said I'm very and I'm Pro prenup and alimony is not gendered it's literally a formula in Most states and so in a situation I do think like yeah if a man wants to get married you should think about this you

Jasmine Jafarshould think about this possibility but I don't think that it's fair that a woman who has given up so much in order to be a homemaker does shouldn't have any um like shouldn't have anything she

Lauren Chenshould just be left on the street like afterwards if she if she's unhappy in that well there's a difference between saying hey let's look at what our assets are currently and what we've invested in together versus and and kind of split

Lauren Chenthat however it may be versus going forward let's have continued payments so there you know there's a difference there there's a difference between saying hey we built this together even though I was at home so you know let's do some sort of split versus I should be

Jasmine Jafarentitled even going forward to some of what you so you think whatever assets they have in the marriage at the time should be split but it shouldn't be future payments that's so you're just against alimony you're not against um Asset Division depending on the

Jasmine Jafarcircumstance okay I I think that it again depends on the circumstance and I do think courts generally do that's why alimony payments have gone down in general but I do think that courts do look at okay how was what was the

Brian Atlasdynamic of this and and they do come to an equitable decision usually and I the courts come to Equitable decisions when it comes to yes so this is another thing you guys yes so this is another thing

Brian Atlasyou guys Conant it's not that's not true at all Yes Men constantly get in situations where they're in terrible situations when it comes to alimony and child support so just because they're more likely to make more money but

Jasmine Jafarthere's if it's a situation like I said it would be a constitutional like nightmare if there was actually judges or courts that were or there were laws on the books that separated men and women it's a formula you go to most divorce courts it's a formula okay who

Jasmine Jafarmakes this blah blah blah we put it in okay this is how we it's if it's a community property State I mean it just there's a whole lot that goes into this none of that's really gendered and this is something you guys I think a lot of people in this space Also mess up on is they're like oh the courts have a bias

Jasmine Jafartowards women they're usually given custody that's just not true 80 over 80% of custody Agreements are decided by the parents outside of Court an additional there's a huge bias in the courtst this is what I'm trying to explain to you so

Jasmine Jafarwhen we look at child so can I finish this though so another 11% is decided in mediation where the parents decide then another like whatever percent is decided after a custody evaluation by the

Jasmine Jafarparents only 4% actually go to a judge and actually the farther up you go off this comp up this conflict pyramid the more likely it is that the father actually does get custody and another thing is courts don't like to give

Jasmine Jafarpeople things they don't ask for when a woman wants primary custody she's 80% likely to file the appropriate paperwork fathers are 40% that's double so that's another reason you see that discrepancy but the reason that people are like 80% of custodial parents are mothers that's

Jasmine JafarCU that's what the PE what the couple is agreeing to it's not because the court is making that determination well under threat of lawsuit you can you can come to a settlement agreement like two couples

Brian Atlasfor example when it comes to uh custody dispute when it comes to alimon Etc um you can certainly you can come to a settlement but that doesn't mean that both parties are satisfied with said

Jasmine Jafarsettlement well I would tell a guy who wasn't satisfied because a lot of times like I said 80% of the time the judge is just signing off this hasn't gone to court the parents are agreeing hey you should keep the the child and a lot of

Brian Atlastimes that's because the mom is financial the financial ramifications of it actually proceeding into like a in front of a judge and you're having to

Brian Atlasmake arguments in front of a judge uh it's it's catastrophic also because uh if the man's the bread winner not only is he obliged to pay for his own uh

Jasmine Jafarlegal uh his own counsil he has to pay for it for his wife so there's a double impact there think reason or do you think it's more likely the case because it's generally true that even in a two

Jasmine Jafarhousehold two parent household the mother is the default parent the mother is the one that generally like is the one taking the kids to soccer practice practice it would disrupt the routine usually for the man to become all of a

Jasmine Jafarsudden the primary caregiver but again men who do fight for custody do end up getting it so they need to fight for it though whereas the the whereas the mother the father's usually agreeing

Jasmine Jafarbecause it makes more sense most sense for the family so you can't if men want it they should fight for it and they do get it when they fight for

Brian Atlasit I suppose okay I suppose but the the issue is is that you have these really

Brian Atlasjust catastrophic uh awards for child support and alimony which are not even approaching proportional to what is I I

Brian AtlasI think when it comes to alimony and child support it should basically there should be it shouldn't matter what your income is it should basically just be some State guideline hey if you want to

Jasmine Jafarget a divorce this is the maximum you're eligible for so you think there's like a cap I don't disagree with that I don't think people should be getting millions of dollars iny we saw Kevin cner who actually here in uh his divorce

Brian Atlasproceedings we uh our studio is in Santa Barbara County uh Santa Barbara County is overlooking Kevin Cosner's divorce

Brian Atlasand uh they the wife wanted $250,000 a month in I I don't know if it was child support spouse like alimony some

Brian Atlascombination uh it they ultimately end ended up awarding uh I believe it was $120,000 a month in support to the wife yeah so if

Jasmine Jafaryou look at these that's ridiculous I agree with you but those that's not the norm that is a very unique like these Bill like that's why I don't use the example well Kelly Clarkson is paying her husband because these are just these are exceptions but but on a lower level

Jasmine Jafarmen are also getting fleeced in the same sort of way I don't think that at least the data doesn't indicate that men are being fleeced in this way I do believe that there should be a cap I don't think that people should be getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in alimon or child support because that's I agree

Jasmine Jafarwith you there but that doesn't mean I believe that it shouldn't be a thing in general especially child support you guys don't think people should pay child support like you think I mean I think I I I believe in child support because I mean it's not the child's the child

Lauren Chenshouldn't be penalized for whatever their parents are going through I what what I would just want to ensure is that it's being used transparently like you said that there's a cap that is not being used as some sort of way to subsidize a mother's lifestyle which is like a whole different thing that

Brian Atlasshouldn't conflate with the child's support so yeah I agree with that well let's let's move on from this topic I need to get through some chats we have trip F here hey thank you Jazz go ahead Jazz you smoke more on fnf Impossible

Jasmine Jafarnote that 65% of college educated men's first marriages last 20 plus years a better discussion would be analizing by race listening to you drone makes me appreciate my wife more so thank you US

Jasmine Jafarmilitary number three by size I'm glad I made you appreciate your wife more yeah college educated people both men and women do better with with marriage all right we have real life Outdoors thank

Madisonyou uh go ahead Madison it's funny how you invite a whole panel yet two hours in and only milon keeps talking she speaks of her culture in Iran but she

Madisonknows shed never spout this over there why not fight for women's rights in Iran all chest no legs to stand if you're going to complain about me talking so much don't pay to talk to me like I'm

Jasmine JafarI'm supposed to respond to all that is a fair point you don't address her if you want her to be quiet you want me to and yeah of course I can't talk about this over there and that's really sad I do do what I can to fight for women's rights

Brian Atlasin Iran too there you have it folks she is a feminist through and through fighting for the rights of Iranian

Brian AtlasIranian women yes with a fervorous passionate okay uh KV Moga Brian yes you should get a cut from o and donate to a

TTS Readermental health charity what do you think like 20% of your next month's earnings J nassen donated $99 thank you man I

TTS Readeragree with child support but I think the parents should be required to go to the child's house not the child bouncing around sucks to suck when you can't work on your marriage you fan move every

Brian Atlasother week but that would require three different households if there was like a primary household and then each parent had their own and if you're concerned about money that's just a whole another house maybe he means like there are two

Brian Atlashouses but the kid always stays in one house and then the parents swap out you're not going to have it's not going to be stable either way you're not winning that of course not yeah it's a tough situation all right we have Conan

Madison19 thank you man go ahead Maddie I asked about how they would feel about a man crying earlier the verdict is at women want a man to be confident in today's society I don't know if women realize but it's terrifying for a man to

Madisonconfidently approach a woman with the fear of being # Mee word word what do you mean by approach I

Brian Atlasmean well men are scared of like if they were to approach a woman that she would you know I don't I'm concerned that he can't

Haleyfigure out how to approach a woman without bordering on sexual harassment or assault if he's talking about me too yeah right like I feel that like there are men and it may not even be their

Jasmine Jafarfault who just can't approach a woman without it being creepy and it's not all about not being a Chad and I think some men just can't do it charismatically and that can come off as creepy whereas

Brian Atlasother so I I give him that he's probably one of those well yeah I think he's probably there's I think a bigger fear of like if you approach a woman that's not like oh while it may very much be a

Brian Atlasvalid fear of like a false accusation I think the bigger concern for a lot of men is is just being perceived as creepy mhm they don't do anything you know they're not like abusing her in some way

Brian Atlasbut they approach and perhaps they don't quite know how to navigate that in a smooth way and then they're concerned about being perceived as creepy or even

Brian Atlasif they do approach in a smooth manner you the often the difference between like the exact same behavior is going to be viewed in two totally separate ways whether the woman's

Brian Atlasattracted to you or not like the same behavior that would get one guy labeled as a creep would be welcomed from a guy that a woman finds physically attractive that's true and I but I I think there are some behaviors that fall into that

Jasmine Jafarcategory but there are also behaviors like I think like anybody whether you're attractive or not like cat calling obviously isn't a way to approach a woman so I think there are some behaviors where that's true but there are some that are obvious knows and

Jasmine Jafarthere are others like just someone saying hey I hope you have a good day that most women aren't going to be like rapist like that's not a thing sure well and plus two you can also pick up on social cues like you can tell within

Shialike 3 minutes of talking to a chick if she's interested or not and so she's clearly not interested and be like you know what sorry I'm going to go and then that's how you don't be creepy don't you think there's a portion of men that

Jasmine Jafarcan't pick up things probably shocking amount probably yeah I mean then then there's definitely men who are

Brian Atlasum who perhaps wrongly believe that you ought to be persistent uh but it men are in this sort of damned

Brian Atlasif you do damned if you don't position because there's a lot of you hear these stories of like oh you know I rejected him three times and then

Brian Atlasnow we're married my personal view is if you get rejected

Brian Atlasonce yeah just move on don't push it not a bad rule just take sense you know yeah I think what's hard for a lot of

Lauren Chenguys is that we don't really have a courting culture anymore and so even from Woman to Woman it's going to differ what she thinks is creepy versus acceptable versus cute versus confident so I it's it's hard being on the

Lauren Chenreceiving end as a woman because then you end up going through things that you find are creepy and uncomfortable and maybe even make you feel unsafe and it's also hard on the man's end because you don't want to be perceived as a creep and you don't know maybe how to I guess

Lauren Chenin a way that makes her feel comfortable let know you're interested in so it's it's just it's kind of I don't envy single people is what I'm trying to say it's hard yeah it's hard out there I

Brian Atlasagree I don't agree on anything I agree yeah uh we have a question here from Stiffler ask everyone to rate their looks on the scale of 1 to 10 go ahead

Jasmine JafarJasmine so we got into this last time I think this I have a strike I have an issue with the 1 to 10 measuring scale so we could get into that again I think it's juvenile I said last time it's fickle it's whimsical it's just not a

Haleyway that I ever rate anybody else so why would I rate myself that way Shai what about you six I think like a five and a half I've had a lot of facial trauma and I think that's really brought my confidence

Emily Raineydown that's just a heartbreaking you're like so cute um I'm just saying 10 again I was going to say six but now the

Lauren Chenliteral model has said six so I feel like I got to knock it down like 5.5 he eight like confidence all right there you have it I

Brian Atlasgive myself a uh six 6.9 on a good day I guess I don't know thank you Stiffler for the question um I do need to wrap up here pretty soon but

Jasmine Jafarmaybe we can I don't know how much I want to what was what was the primary thing that you object to when it comes to this rating thing um I just don't I don't rate people that way so like for

Jasmine Jafarinstance why not rate people between 1 and 50 right you could get more precise but it's just dumb to get to that level of precision so for me the 1 to 10 is to why not like why wouldn't you raise

Jasmine Jafarsomeone between one and a thousand or one because it's two so I don't walk around and go is that an eight or is that a nine it literally reminds me of like Myspace days I just might say how old I am 28 that we used to do this on

Jasmine JafarMySpace in middle school since then I've never heard anybody talk about people this way like he's an eight or he's a nine I just go oh that person 's attractive I see how that person's conventionally attractive well I think

Jasmine Jafarin like a common conversation it's not something that would come up but like you can have a sense of where someone Falls when it comes to their attractiveness sure but I don't think that's usually on this one to 10 scale

Jasmine Jafarthat's the issue so I may and and that's where people have differences like I think me and some of the women I could be like oh I think he's more attracted than that guy and they might say oh no I like skaters he's my type you know there's so many there's so much that goes into this so that's why I don't

Jasmine Jafarthink that the 1 to 10 it makes it seem like it's more objective than it is and while there is an no there is an objective component to Beauty but there's also a subjective and cultural right they've done studies where people in like Africa have different

Jasmine Jafarpreferences for Waste to hip ratio BMI then they move to the UK and over a few Generations they start to match the preferences of the UK so there is a cultural I mean even like 15 years ago nobody liked big tits and big ass and

Jasmine Jafarnow Kardashian I think men have always liked big boobs trust me as a girl who is chested I think the standard of beauty we can say has changed throughout

Jasmine Jafarhistory can we not say that like and in cultures like in India people like like big ankles I don't know if you ever saw that Oprah episode but people like different things in some parts of the country in some parts of the world seeing as seeing being seen as too

Jasmine Jafarskinny is is not like if we even look at Art like if we look at the Statue of Aphrodite who you who was the most beautiful woman anyone could even conceive of if you look at her now she is like rolls she doesn't have big tits

Jasmine Jafarlike she this look up the she got healthy body fat percentage range look up the statue of aphrod I've seen the statue I've seen she's not that's not the ideal woman's body in 2023 we were going to depict Aphrodite the Goddess of

Jasmine Jafarbeauty we wouldn't draw her that way and we wouldn't depict her that way anymore today nobody's getting plastic surgery to look like that statue so I'm saying there has there's obviously a cultural component there is a subjective component and there's an objective

Jasmine Jafarcomponent and because of those things I don't think that the 1 to 10 scale I think again it's juvenile it makes sense when you're 12 and you're like with your friends like he's an eight he's a nine but I don't know you guys can tell me if I'm wrong do you guys walk around and

Emily Raineylook at people that way definitely not and I will say too I think it's really depend on like the day I feel like some days I would literally be like wow I'm a 10 like I look amazing and then

Emily Raineysome days I'd be like I look a like five at the best maybe so yeah I mean I don't know I think it's kind of silly too but like we do it here so yeah I'm just do

Jasmine Jafarit well I guess okay here's the do you consider yourself like a a 10 or you just choose to non-answer though no I don't consider myself a 10 I do consider myself attractive now there are days like she said that I actually am like e

Brian Atlasand then there are other days I'm like oh I look good today like that's my experience so first off I think this idea that it's it's juvenile I kind of reject that because we all have our preferences when it comes to who we want

Brian Atlasto date when I can't I don't think anyone here at the table would deny that physical attractiveness is incredibly important for both men and that's not juvenile I don't think that having preferences is juvenile sure but I mean

Brian Atlasthe 1 to 10 scale is a sort of way of doing a assessment of someone's physical attractiveness both yourself and also other people so when you see a girl and you you're like oh she's attractive do

Jasmine Jafaryou go into is she a one two no I'm not I'm not like breaking it down but like there is it's the breaking down component that I'm saying is juvenile that's the component so you're like oh no it's not juvenile to have preferences of course not that's what I'm saying I

Jasmine Jafarthink it's totally fine to be like I find them more attractive than them but I don't go eight nine oh he's two inches taller oh but he I like his tattoos like it it becomes weird it doesn't go through and I would say it's probably

Brian Atlasthe case for most men that it doesn't like go through our head like to assign a number when we're just passing a girl in the street or we're even in the

Brian Atlasconversation with a woman but this idea that when we're having a conversation about it on a podcast and if you do have

Brian Atlaslike sort of a uh if you attempt to have a actual analysis of what's going on when it comes to dating I do think it's valuable I think it's useful yeah if you're a person that

Jasmine Jafarthinks it's useful you're a very different person than I am that's all I'm saying it's I think it's useful to think people are attractive or not but if you're starting to put your prospects on like a scale and oh she's a 10 she's a nine she's an eight she's a seven

Jasmine Jafarshe's a six and a half I don't think most rational adults are dating in that way well here's where it gets dangerous is in today's day and age we have a

Brian Atlasculture of uh you know there's from body positivity uh where we are gassing people up to think that they are perhaps

Brian Atlasattractive when maybe they aren't so so the reason you need to you need to

Brian Atlasif you think that you are a 10 let's say but you're not you whether you're a man or a woman you're going to be disappointed with

Brian Atlasyour dating prospects if you have a delusional sense of your own physical attractiveness so that's why it's import I I think it's important that people have like are based in reality when it comes to their own self assessment of

Brian Atlastheir own physical attractiveness so if you just like willy-nilly oh yeah I'm just I'm a 10 my looks are a 10 you're probably going to have some degree of entitlement when it comes to

Jasmine Jafarwell if I'm a 10 thus I must I deserve a guy who's a 10 I see what you're saying but this is where that subjectivity comes in so I'm on the internet there are men who I am like their dream woman

Jasmine Jafarlike the big tit small like I am they think I'm stunning they think I'm a 10 I don't even think I'm a 10 there are some men who think I'm M or average so if I want to see myself as a 10 there are certainly men who will find me as a 10 I

Jasmine Jafardon't even think that of myself but do the men that you want view you that way I personally obviously like people who with when I'm their type like I like that compati ility so yes if a guy is really into like like a lot of the guys

Jasmine Jafarthat like me they don't like fake tits like they don't like that so and you can yeah you can find a guy that and there are some men that like small tits and there are some men but some men they're like I love Middle Eastern women I think they're the most beautiful I'm not

Jasmine Jafarsaying they are but there are some so what I mean is it what is really the issue with me being like hey I like men who I'm their type and they find me very physically attractive now anyone who says you're 10 out of 10 you're perfect

Jasmine Jafaryou have no flaws that's not even human that's like that's bizarre so that's not usually I think what people are saying when they're a 10 out of 10 but I don't think that like it kind of is though a lot of people have a overinflated sense

Brian Atlasof self they think they're hot but they're not they think they're more attractive than they actually are and invariably they're going to be let down in the dating Marketplace because they're not going to be able to secure

Jasmine Jafarfor long-term commitment uh so this is been a a common phenomenon in Psychology for a while it's called the self-enhancement bias so you're right but I don't think the self-enhancement bias is what's preventing people from

Haleyit's one of various factors you can think that I haven't I don't feel like it um well I think it's important to remember that everyone has unique preferences it's like someone I may find super attractive my best friend does not

Haleythink is attractive at all so that person with their they think they're a 10 they're great they think they're super attractive they will eventually find someone that also thinks that like I they think that's a possibility and it may be it may be to the point where they

Haleyget beaten down so much in the beginning that maybe maybe they kind of have a little bit of a reality check and they now like okay maybe I'm not like a 10 but you know to someone they may be a 10 then someone's preference May match what they think of themselves and in that

Haleycase that's great but you know of course that's really challenging to find and it's going to be difficult for them if they just are walking around thinking they're a 10 all the time but you know to someone they really may be a 10 okay go go ahead sorry well I think there is

Lauren ChenI firmly believe that there is someone out there who thinks that you are gorgeous and is going to be attracted to you I think that's definitely true but think where Bri's com and why a of like

Lauren Chenself is is that are you going to be attracted to that person right because if you're someone who you like you're single and you've been single for a long time and you you you meet someone and

Lauren Chenthey find you beautiful they're super attracted to you but you think you can do better perhaps there's a possibility that you can't and no one wants to like quote unquote settle but I think it is

Lauren Chenyou know having realistic expectations is kind of why it it might matter and not necessarily that we quantify how good-looking we are but just kind of like you know what pool are you working with right I I think anyone who's like I

Jasmine Jafarcan do better cuz I'm more attractive than a person I don't think that's yeah that's not a nice person and you probably shouldn't want to date them anyway I guess here's here's the thing

Brian Atlasthough when it comes to differences between men and women is that I think it's really important you have especially I think especially so for women that you have an accurate self

Brian Atlasassessment of your own excuse me your own physical attractiveness is because uh men will put women well there's there's a variety of categories

Brian Atlasbut men are a little more flexible when it comes to who they're willing to sleep with and if as a woman you're desirous of a long-term relationship there are

Brian Atlasplenty of guys that you're going to deem really attractive that are that'll sleep with you but they'll never give you commitment and so if you start gunning

Brian Atlasfor like a really top tier guy as a girl you can get sexual access to him but it's not a given that you're going to get commitment from him yeah sure yeah but so as a woman like you can in in

Brian Atlasaddition to not only having sexual access to Men of whether it's status whether it's physical appearance because for men will sleep with women that they would in terms of physical

Brian Atlasattractiveness that they would never consider being in a relationship with yeah however I think it's pretty different for women like for women in order for you to sleep with a guy he

Brian Atlastypically has to be at least physically attractive enough for you to be in a relationship with him typically when women break rules when it comes to you know sleeping with someone quick or whatever it may be is he's just going to

Emily Raineybe really attractive whereas it's almost the opposite for well or she's just super into him like emotionally like they have a wonderful emotional connection and then that like draws a lot more women in

Haleyeven just to like sleep with you so and also everyone's attractive preferences are different right from you know everyone here if you have one guy you know we may not all find him super attractive and so there's like you said

Haleythere's someone for everyone type thing like that's it's not that it's easy to find that it's definitely really difficult but it's possible like oh go ahead sorry well I guess I guess the issue is that women tend to be The

Lauren ChenGatekeepers of sex but men are The Gatekeepers of relationships so the disparity there might be that you know women because we're I guess traditionally The Gatekeepers of sex what Brian is saying is that we're not going to sleep with someone who we

Lauren Chenwouldn't also date in terms of looks but it's men have actually a higher standard for who they would date in terms of looks than who they would merely for example have a one night stand with so

Lauren Chenyou could have like an information asymmetry if you're going into uh you know a date or something where you might like be into the guy and want to date him where he's not actually that attracted to you enough to have run long

Jasmine Jafarterm he only wants to sleep with you to get to the conclusion then you're saying that because of that these women have an inflated sense of self because they think they can get that guy but they can't because they're not attractive enough but they don't know it because

Lauren Chenthey think they can because he's willing to sleep with them is that what you're saying is what is that what you guys are no what I'm saying is that as a woman not every man who wants to sleep with you wants to be in a relationship with

Haleyyou and it's important to be able to discern that yeah I agree yeah so that can also go both both ways absolutely I mean maybe typically one way or the

Brian Atlasother but it's important to recognize that you can go both ways word word okay uh let me see if there's any other chats we do uh let's

Madisonsee oh there's a lot me uh oh never mind not read did we do this one no oh Madison can you read it bro

Madisonthere was a vid of woman walking through New York and men saying smile more were lab labeled as Predators this is why even aesthetically Attractive people are hesitant to approach woman they don't

Jasmine Jafarknow well I don't who who here wants to be told to smile more when they're just walking down the street like I don't think that's a good move yeah but it's not I I don't think they're Predators but they're

Brian Atlasweirdos I yeah I think you can there's ways to approach women that don't make them feel uncomfortable smore is not one of them we already discussed I think the video in question it was a viral video a

Brian Atlaslong time ago uh I mean what my understanding is that they basically trolled the streets for 10 hours and they got a handful of

Brian Atlasand they seem to have targeted typically minority neighborhoods to do this in which is another conversation but uh like there were men who

Brian Atlaswould say hi or whatever um there might have been some cherry picking involved in the editing of that video but

Brian Atlasuh yeah uh let me get this other one Ryan L hey thank you man for the Canadian 100 appreciate it yo Ryan thank you go ahead medison what that other sub was trying to say in layman's terms is Lauren

Madisonyou're a solid 10 when you put looks values and social situations all together you're a perfect t for any moderately conservative man keep doing what you do oh that's really sweet she's married she's married the ring can we see the ring well I I don't I I don't

Brian Atlasknow where my actual engagement ring is unfortun we had a move so fou yeah there you have it okay we have uh real life Outdoors hey thank you man you have platforms to Advocate on behalf of

Brian Atlaswomen's rights in your culture you choose to promote your o and Bs hubris also I'm not paying to talk to you I'm paying to talk at you wow all right it's like your off but you can keep your

Jasmine Jafarclothes on I mean you're still paying to get a response out of me so um it's I mean if we want to talk about what's going on in Iran we can but it's a very difficult situation and there's very little we can actually do here to help there are things that you know my family

Jasmine Jafartried to get involvement but other than protesting this has been a huge issue that's been going on since the revolution in 19 1979 so there isn't even it's really hard to even donate over there you can't even really send

Jasmine Jafarmoney to Iran so it's not that simple and what am I not supposed to work here and and have a the job I want because people women in Iran can't I mean I get

Jasmine Jafarmany messages from women in Iran and Iranian women thanking me for what I do and for breaking those stereotypes and those um the the terrible archaic part of our culture because there is that

Jasmine Jafarabout gender norms and women being sexually liberated good times good times you play one of your sound effects for me um like the happy one or the good yeah there we

Brian Atlasgo okay so one of the things that came up in a previous chat was uh someone wanted to talk about body count and I said I would get to it so this is us getting to it here at the end of the

Jasmine Jafarshow here before we wrap up um should body count matter I don't have an issue with it mattering for certain people but for me it doesn't matter and I wouldn't be attracted to a guy for which it he

Brian Atlasfinds it to be pertinent information um no one else's body count matters but my own that makes sense sort of so you you

Brian Atlaswouldn't you wouldn't uh mind dating a guy who uh had like 300 previous sexual partners I'd be

Haleyintimidated okay but I wouldn't mind sure um personally it doesn't matter I've been dating this guy for like eight months now he I don't know his body count he doesn't know mine and we don't really care sure yeah same I don't I

Emily Raineythink that it's fine if it matters to you or your partner I think you guys can discuss that privately but um to me it doesn't matter no I think it does matter uh um you know they say that if you're interested in a relationship best

Lauren Chenpredictor of future behavior is relevant past Behavior I I don't know about the statistics for men I still think it matters if you're a woman what your like male partner's body count is but I know for women um there is a correlation

Lauren Chenbetween number of Partners before marriage and likelihood of divorce so I you know we can go into exactly what the reasons might be but I think overall uh you know for a prospective boyfriend or

Jasmine Jafarhusband to care about that I think it it's reason so are you talking about the Institute of family studies because that's the one study that's show interestingly they show that two is the worst and if you have two it like shows it goes up after nine so would you have someone who slept with two people would

Jasmine Jafaryou say they should sleep with a few more so their likelihood of divorce goes down and if we're going to talk about divorce statistics there like the first thing you should be looking at is a college educated woman it's their first marriage and that they're between 25 and 32 because those are the three biggest things that really reduce your

Jasmine Jafarlikelihood of divorce if you just do those three your divorce rate is now at 20% instead of 50 so yeah I do think it's a and I think it's a conversation to have if you're talking about lifestyle right if you slept with hundreds of people you probably party a

Jasmine Jafarlot you probably drink a lot and if the other person doesn't but this and yeah maybe a little bit it does you know if you're like oh the likelihood of divorce and stuff but if someone's going to use that ooh the likelihood of divorce then

Lauren ChenI expect you to pick women that at least on those things that matter far more when we're talking about likelihood of getting divorced I mean I'm I'm for men especially when it comes to marriage being very picky so I'm not going to say no like I yes absolutely with divorce

Lauren Chenrates what they are I think you should be as much as possible trying to I don't want to say head your best because that's not a good way to look at a marriage but yeah I think it makes a lot of sense to try and be as smart and as possible especially like we were talking about you know divorce courts that yeah

Jasmine Jafarall of these things should matter a holistic approach to not wanting to get divorced if you will yeah that study is just funny because it it goes up the highest is two and then it kind of goes down until like nine and then it goes up again so if you're going to hedge your bets if you've only slept with two

Lauren Chenpeople you might want to add a few more in because according to that one think when you when you cross I would want to see the like a multi regression that actually takes into account age because what that tells someone like me is that then the highest being two it's likely people who are younger who are getting

Lauren Chenmarried which we also know the likelihood if you're you know 18 to get it married and divorc is going to be much higher than if you're 25 or something I agree that's why I'm at kind of it's annoying that that's the one study that even shows that is that one Institute of family I think there should

Jasmine Jafarbe more research done on this yeah and I am not just basing my answer off that one study either but do you really need a study to know that promiscuity is an undesir able trait well it's actually so desirability is different than divorce

Jasmine Jafarso actually there has been St studies done on Lifetime partners and that impacting your likelihood of marriage and there's no impact so your body count doesn't actually impact your likelihood of getting married it does impact likelihood of divorce that's true but it

Jasmine Jafardoesn't impact obviously doesn't impact desirability enough because men are still just as these women are still just as likely to get a ring on it as women who have lower body C and that's what we're trying to change with this show

TTS Readerhow about that jine you really need Toop stop bringing up college education education itself is not what leads to lateral attraction even if partners of same education income and socioeconomic

Jasmine Jafarstatus holds more weight than education itself not with divorce and divorce statistics education is a variable that has been shown to have this effect more so than those other ones but I did say

Lauren Chensocioeconomic status uh does impact it well it's hard to divorce them right I mean someone from a certain socioeconomic status you're almost guaranteed to have like gone to college if you parents make over so you can't really like he's trying to say divorce

Jasmine Jafarthem they're they're overlapping I think to yeah they could and people of higher socioeconomic status do get divorc less often and I think maybe that could be because it's also college education and also a lot of couples um argue about

Jasmine Jafarfinances and if you're have a higher socioeconomic status you're not worried you don't have those stresses of like poverty how am I going to put food on the table those things impact your relationship so yeah but okay we were talking about body

Jasmine Jafarcount yeah so body count it doesn't impact desability because those women are just as but those women are just as likely to get married so woman with a high body count and one with a low body count are have the same likelihood of marriage when we're looking at lifetime

Jasmine JafarPartners there is a disc discrepancy if we look at recent partners and the researchers in the study concluded that maybe obviously if you're sleeping around right now maybe you're not ready for marriage you're just at a different point in your life but they looked at

Brian Atlaslifetime partners and they looked at um a probability of getting married and that they didn't find any link there if every single woman that ever existed or

Brian Atlasdoes exist were to have a body count of 300 women would still get married men would I suppose

Jasmine Jafartolerate uh this new thing but it doesn't mean it's a good thing or that it's desire are you saying it's a so it doesn't so if I was telling women like okay it seems like your likelihood of

Jasmine Jafargetting married is the same so maybe men are just tolerating it but they are tolerating it so and also I think hookup culture is misconstrued when you look at the actual stats most people are not it's like 20% that they're showing that

Jasmine Jafarthat is doing this and a lot of times I use the Paro principle or whatever that 20% of men are getting 80% of women well when you reverse it it's the same that 20% of women are so what's really happening is that 20% of the population

Jasmine Jafaris promiscuous and the rest kind of aren't most people if you look at those G GSS studies of sexlessness and whatever over 80% of men and women in the past year have had sex either with one person or with zero it's not this

Jasmine Jafarthing that are men or women I think it's one of those things of like remember when we were in school and it's was like Mom everyone does drugs everyone drinks I feel like hookup culture in these spaces is becoming that because people assume in these spaces like everyone's

Jasmine Jafarhooking up and this is just becoming a thing everyone's body count is like in the hundreds it's not true most people are having sex and you think it's equal one to one what do you mean when it comes to you think men have more Partners yeah no men have more Partners

Lauren Chenthan women do that's true yeah that's true at least I mean I I don't know about like among certain populations but in G yeah that is from what I remember across all age groups that was the case and I also want

Lauren Chento say that it is like it's a double-edged sword cuz I know a lot of single Christian women who want to wait until marriage and we can say that men you know they desire they want to marry

Lauren Chena virgin a lot of men don't want to date a virgin and wait to marry her so it is like it's it's hard like you're kind of I mean as as a woman if you want that that's going to be a challenge for you even to just be able to be in a

Jasmine Jafarlong-term relationship with a man in this day and age and not put out so that's like it it's hard in that situation I agree with that I think that it can be hard but this idea that people are just having these crazy high body

Jasmine Jafarcounts and up in the hundreds that's very rare the average is not anywhere near that and most people upwards of 80% if you look at who they've had sex with in the past few years it's a partner in a relationship or a marriage people

Jasmine Jafararen't just going off and and 200 people the way the manosphere likes to think well I mean the stats that I'm familiar with and I'm familiar with the GSS uh the General Social Survey whatever it's

Jasmine Jafarcalled the 2018 one is probably the only one you're familiar with because I am familiar with that one yes how about the 2021 or 2022 because you should look those up and those have a very different result what is the average uh for so the

Jasmine Jafarone he's referring is one that kind of blew up in these spaces where it shows that like a third of men aren't having sex in the past year but that there's also one from Pew research yeah so which

Brian Atlasshows that that I think it's uh 60% of men in the age range of 18 to 29 report being single whereas in that

Jasmine Jafarsame exact age cohort women are uh much more likely to be in a relationship so there's been other ones that don't show that but also one of the reasons for that is women tend to date a couple

Jasmine Jafaryears older so if they were to expand the male side of that to like 33 34 then the number would be a lot um a lot less because there's a lot of women if you're only cutting it off at 29 well 28 27 26y

Brian Atlasold women are dating men that are 30 31 32 then that's part of where that discrepancy comes from age age could explain that but it's still a pretty

Brian Atlasstaggering I mean the fact that there's in the cohort of men between 18 to 29 if 60% I forgot if it was uh the exact

Jasmine Jafarnumbers but it's uh like twice as many men are single as women so the other Studies have shown like 10 so it's less than that it's 10% and that maybe there's still some of that even when we

Jasmine Jafarcounter uh measure for age but I but they have shown that if we just increase the male side so if we look at women and cap it at 29 but we cap men at 34 35 that changes significantly because a lot of women are dating men that are a few

Lauren Chenyears older than them something else that I saw that um I forget who it was that posted about it but that might explain at least some of the the disparity between men and women being single and this just frustrates me makes me really glad that I'm not single is

Lauren Chenthat women are a lot more likely to qualify what their relationship status is with the same person as being a relationship versus a man who might say oh no we're not in a relationship like we're just cat or whatever that is and I

Jasmine Jafarcould totally see that cont contributing to at least some of it yeah I agree that could contribute to some of it but I don't know if that whole number first of all again that hasn't been replicated and also with the age and that I think all three of those things are

Brian Atlascontributing well I mean that to me it almost seems self-evident okay so I mean there's that one study one out

Brian Atlasof three men under 30 has not had sex in the past year the corresponding number is one out of six women under 30 has not had sex in the past year um they the latest version of that actually shows

Jasmine Jafarwomen more likely to not have had sex that's what I so he they're stuck on 2018 because 2018 is the one year it shows us that's why I want him to use a different year because on those other years it shows women are having less sex than men but that one I did I did think

Brian AtlasI saw the most recent and it was surprising surprising when it's not the 2018 graph well I also I did look and

Brian Atlasperhaps Co is related to this but the uh the number of participants was markedly lower than in previous years so it there was a

Jasmine Jafargeneral Trend and then 2018 had this weird discrepancy and then it's been so 2 it's more likely that if we've done this for many many years the 2018 something was up whatever it it that's why replicability is so important

Jasmine Jafarbecause it wasn't replicated in the Years prior or the years after so and also something people don't understand this 18 to 30 age range when you actually do 25 to 30 it drops down to

Jasmine Jafarlike 9% what it really means is a lot of people men between 18 and 25 were having more sex because they were getting married more they were leaving the house more they were just socializing more but

Jasmine Jafarafter 25 it seems that like virginity and sexlessness is far far far it Dr significantly after 25 than in the 18 to 25 range well it if the numbers from the

Brian Atlasmost recent GSS survey are true uh perhaps even the 2018 numbers are faulty it may very well be the case that's what I'm saying the 2018 numbers are faulty in any case though it does

Brian Atlasoccur to me that I would make the argument that women are more promiscuous than men are okay why because it's self-evident well it's uh for starters uh when have more access to hookup

Jasmine Jafarculture than do men okay but that access is clearly not um resulting in them actually doing it by any of these surveys or any of these and and also if women have all these options if men had the amount of options women have you

Jasmine Jafardon't think they would be far more promiscuous than we're being but they don't yeah but women are not which would suggest hyam is alive and well but women aren't using those options we're seeing like that's the thing you're saying they

Jasmine Jafarhave the options but the options isn't translating to their behavior where do you have it so they may have more options now link that to the conclusion you're trying to make just because they have more options they are therefore more promiscuous or don't we

Brian Atlashave a gap there that we need to fill a premise what you what you basically have is there's a small proportion of men for example on Tinder and they have done studies on Tinder when it comes to the

Brian Atlasbreakdown of who's getting right who's getting swiped on who's not so you have a very small proportion of men that get something like 80% 90% of all the attention on dating apps it's a very

Brian Atlassmall pool of men that get all the attention so what you're going to end up having for example is and I think this is a one so you basically have like a small proportion of men that are very

Brian Atlaspromiscuous that have a high partner count but then you have a greater proportion of women that don't have quite as high of a body count as do the men well again if you're looking at just dating app swipes that's different but

Jasmine Jafarif you're looking at how people actually behave in their behavior like I said it does seem to because if you reverse it it does also seem like 20% of women are sleeping with 80% that's not true what's happening is really that there's like 20% of the population or maybe a little less maybe a little more that are more

Jasmine Jafarpromiscuous and that's what's contributing to this also on dating apps I think it's like there's like three or four times as many men on there as women and that's obviously going to conflate this there's no actual real life scenario where there's like five five

Jasmine Jafarmen for each woman unless you're in like a specific Niche sure which makes it even more difficult for men I agree it makes it more difficult but I don't think it makes women more promiscuous cuz that's the thing you're arguing I do think men have it hard but I don't think

Jasmine Jafarthat that translates to women are now more promiscuous because men on average have more there more promiscuous women than there are men it well the stats show them both like around the same it seems like there's 20% of people that

Jasmine Jafarare just each other and the rest of us are just like with it's not I I don't believe it's a onetoone thing if it's not a onetoone thing the more men have more are having more sex than women are like she even no a smaller

Jasmine Jafarproportion of men are having more sex than women are well that's so from what you're showing me it seems like the majority both men and women are having and I and I said this over 80% of us are having sex with either zero or one

Jasmine Jafarperson and then once you start getting to two to four Partners you start getting to way more men have um what the yeah there's a fly behind you more men are having a lot of Partners than women are so I don't know how you're

Brian Atlasyou're concluding that women are more promiscuous simply by virtue of their accessibility to but that accessibility isn't translating to behavior it is though how because stats all show the

Brian Atlasopp that's all happening how is that so tell me how it's translated if you have more capability to do something then you're much more likely to enact on it so your argument is premise one women have more capability conclusion

Jasmine Jafartherefore women are more promiscuous you're missing the middle so premise two would have to be women are acting on this accessibility therefore women are more promiscuous you don't have that second premise that second premise is not borne out by what we're seeing in

Lauren Chenthe Behavior well it's hard because any of the stats I've seen about this they just give like an average they don't give like a mean median mode kind of

TTS Readerbreakdown that was base donated $99 all right someone shut off Barney's mic for the night at no point in your rambling incoherent response were you

Jasmine Jafareven close to anything that could be considered a rational thought everyone in this room is now Dumber for having listened to it I mean we are Brian is directing a lot of the questions I don't mind being muted for the rest of the

Lauren Chentime it's late and I think we're ending soon so I'm all for it well I guess the only thing I'd say about the promis cuy is that if we take being priscu as like a personality attribute and give it to

Lauren Chen20% of the population it's more likely that 20% of the female population who is promiscuous is actually going to be able to go out and sleep with someone than the 20% of the male population right so

Jasmine Jafarbut then I think that would bear out in the data in the sense of then men would it's hard because the averages might still be the so you think the top promiscuous woman is having way more sex than the top promiscuous man oh yeah oh

Jasmine Jafaryeah 100% I think if a woman is promiscuous she's able to sleep with way more men than if a man is promiscuous so like an NBA player Drake like if we're looking at the top so he's not having so women are but it's like you for for

Jasmine Jafarsomeone to be at the top you you chose Drake or yeah but for a woman to be getting sex to be per and being promiscuous she just basically needs to be a woman cuz we're when we also look at body count the ones at the very top

Jasmine Jafartop are men like that are sleeping with hundreds and hundreds of people there are more men doing that than there are women doing that so that has been shown so I don't necessarily know what we're comparing here well yeah I mean it is hard right because we're comparing

Jasmine Jafarpeople who are promiscuous and then men versus women and then the number the highest body counts are obtained by men and then we look at averages men on average also have more so I don't know where we're drawing this conclusion that

Jasmine Jafarall we have is the accessibility argument and that hasn't translated to anything we've seen in Behavior other than Brian's feelings well I mean it's I don't need a

Brian Atlasstudy for example to know that and I think you would actually agree with me here that it's easier for women to get laid it's easier for women to get laid but women aren't as

Jasmine Jafarinterested in just getting laid with as many people is that so you think so as men are yeah I mean this is an argument you you would make men are more they're less sexually selective so I think women you like you guys are kind of jealous of something we don't even want which is

Jasmine Jafarlike a lot of men like want to us like we're like okay and you guys are putting yourself like oh I wish I had that because I would all these men okay but we're not doing that just because they're all in our DMS we're it's not actually well it's not clear to

Jasmine Jafarme that that uh I think there's plenty of women that engage in hookup culture and they are uh it's a minority of people on both

Jasmine Jafarends now maybe more men would want to that's true if they could I agree with that but women even though they can't and most of them still

Jasmine Jafararen't I don't think that's true that's what the data says and that's so I know you don't I haven't seen your data well can I pull it up I mean you're just denying like this

Jasmine Jafaris and this is just this is what's happening is that most women aren't taking these opportunities you guys think just cuz we're out on the street and all these men would have sex with us you guys know that women are you guys say in the same breath women are very

Jasmine Jafarselective they only want to this type of man and then in the same breath you're saying oh but they everybody and they're super promiscuous I mean yeah there's rampant promiscuity and where are you getting

Jasmine Jafarthat from because most people seem to just have one partner and they're having sex most people have just one part I just said over 80% and that 20 that GSS study if you actually go into it and they start um differentiating between

Jasmine Jafarpartners you find that most the majority of people when they say have you had sex in the past year they've had sex with one partner they're in relationships or they're in marriages no the the data

Brian Atlasactually shows that there's a I think it's uh 20% of women if we're going based off of the Pew uh research that's been done that

Brian Atlas20% of women are whether they know it or not are actually in some sort of polyamorous situation in other words they're sharing a guy but they're still sleeping with that one guy thinking they're in a relationship so how is that

Jasmine Jafarevidence of promiscuity in fact wouldn't it be the opposite no well because then you have a smaller purport then you have men who are getting no access to sex that's true and I think that times that men get no access to sex it's m be

Jasmine Jafarbecause they don't want they want it but they can't get it whereas when women because there are more women that aren't having sex they're choosing you can make that argument but there are more women except in 2018 that aren't having sex than men and you could argue that's by choice but if you're saying women are

Jasmine Jafarmore promiscuous then that probably wouldn't be the case right what wouldn't be the case that women are choosing not to have sex more than men are if they're super promiscuous well I

Jasmine Jafarwould have to see the the new GSS well you just said the G GSS what does the new GSS study show that men are there are more sexist men or sexist women because except for 2018 It generally shows that women are more sexist than

Brian Atlasmen and they're doing so by choice and you're saying because they have all these options it's not clear to me that that there's truth to that though I mean how would you how would you for example

Brian Atlashow would you for example explain the the incidents of men who for example are incels yes I do think there is a small portion of men and there is no woman could be an incel I agree but that

Jasmine Jafardoesn't mean that because there are men that are incels and women that know woman could be an incel that women are more promiscuous I don't see how that is related to that it's like a how is that

Emily Raineymore um I feel like from the women that I know at least um they typically like if it's a woman who does want to engage in casual sex she typically wants to find like a guy that can can just be

Emily Raineylike a hookup partner um she doesn't typically want to like sleep around and that's typically pretty easy to find like a guy who's willing to do that obviously but yeah I don't find that like many women just want to like sleep

Jasmine Jafararound and get all these like guys whereas the opposite I think is true for men Sometimes women generally are sexist by choice and for some men it's by choice but for a lot of men it's not by

Jasmine Jafarchoice which is counter to your argument that women are more promiscuous because so many of them are choosing I I think You could argue all women are choosing to not have a higher body count than they already have because we all have

Brian Atlasthe opportunity to but okay hold on yeah NE okay the thing is is a lot of men by

Jasmine Jafarnecessity have to be monogamous because they so wouldn't they be so and women don't but most women still are so aren't they less

Brian Atlaspromiscuous no because if you're you're unable as a guy if you are unable to act on your desires to actually secure sexual access from a lot of women

Lauren Chenthen yeah so therefore women are more promiscuous so you're making arguments that I don't think support your conclusions wait are when you say that women are more promiscuous do you mean that they're actually having sex whereas men are not more promiscuous not

Lauren Chennecessarily because they don't want to have sex but because they're actually not able to find the partners that women are like is that how you're defining promiscuity how are you defining promiscuity if men were capable of

Brian Atlasgetting sex very easily then I would say yes more men would be promiscuous however very few men are capable of engaging in promiscuity so I would argue that there are more women who are

Jasmine Jafarpromiscuous who are successfully promiscuous than there are men and I don't think that's not born out anywhere that's all I'm saying it doesn't seem that women even though they have the opportunity they don't seem to be taking

Jasmine Jafarthose opportunities and yeah it's true that there are more sexless men who don't have options but that doesn't support the conclusion therefore that women are more

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