Men Make NO EFFORT?! What Do They Bring To The Table? HEATED DEBATE w/ Feminists! | Dating Talk #131
Date: 2024-01-31
Duration: 6h 12m
Guests
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_00TTS Reader(audience)
SPEAKER_01Jake(guest)
SPEAKER_03Ariana(guest)
SPEAKER_04Kayla(guest)
SPEAKER_06Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_07TTS Reader(audience)
SPEAKER_08Lily(guest)
SPEAKER_09Toia(guest)
SPEAKER_10Vanika(guest)
SPEAKER_11Shay(guest)
SPEAKER_12Katie(guest)
Key Moments
00:02:54
IntroGuest introductions begin. Kayla opens as first guest: tooth technician, 24, Joshua Tree CA.
“my name is Kayla I'm 24 years old I'm from Joshua Tree California and I am a tooth technician”
00:03:15
IntroToia introduces herself: 20yo UCSB economics student, Bay Area. Says she is "so single and so happy about it."
“hi I'm toia I'm a 20-year-old from the Bay Area I go to school here at UCSB and I'm a student”
00:03:16
IntroKatie introduces herself as non-monogamous/polyamorous with an overseas lover.
“my name is Katie I'm 29 I'm originally from Vermont and I work in child care”
01:34:24
Key MomentBrian states his personal rule: if he goes on a first date and is interested, all other men must be out of the picture before a second date.
“my personal standard on this is if I go on the first date with a girl and I'm interested in pursuing her all the other guys have to be a rap”
02:34:42
QuoteJake discloses that his own promiscuous past has "come back to bite" him with principled women.
“if I could take back time I'd probably be a little bit more frugal with it if I was your age”
03:09:06
OtherNaraj mock proposal moment: Brian puts a ring on Vanika's finger on-air. Vanika says she would consider marrying Naraj if he is willing to wait while she builds herself.
“he drove you here yes because my car broke... will you marry Naraj”
03:48:06
OtherToia reads her lengthy written list of partner requirements live on air, covering ~20+ detailed criteria.
“emotional and not afraid to admit their feelings existential and or philosophical interested in the world driven and ambitious...”
04:04:12
QuoteJake states his ideal woman must 'fear God', preferably be a virgin or very low body count, feminine, submissive, and want to have a big family.
“she has to fear God she has to be a Godly woman she has to not has to but preferably a virgin if not a very low body count with only Partners feminine submissive loyal and just wants to have a family and multiply”
04:07:24
OtherBrian reads out his detailed partner preference list on air — including preference for natural bodies, no plastic surgery, no big labia plasty, moderate looks, introversion, low body count.
“any race is fine but I do have a slight preference for white women... strong preference for no plastic surgery no fake tits no fake lips no BBL”
04:38:00
ControversyJake claims feminism is "the worship of the devil" and cites book Occult Feminism by Rachel Wilson.
“feminism is the worship of the devil... you can read a book called occult feminism by Rachel Wilson”
04:45:12
Key MomentKayla reads out Mallerie Millett quote on destroying the American family through promiscuity and homosexuality.
“why are we here today she asked to make a revolution... how do we destroy the American patriarchy by destroying monogamy... by promoting promiscuity eroticism prostitution and homosexuality”
05:31:48
ControversyBrian's warfare argument: male suffering in WWI/WWII and forced conscription outweighs all women's collective grievances historically and in modern day.
“that sole grievance that men have nearly exclusively experienced outweighs in orders of magnitude more than all of women's Collective Grievances and that is Warfare”
06:08:00
QuoteBrian closes show noting circumcision as modern-day male bodily autonomy argument.
“most men in this country are circumcised upon birth... they have their genitals mutilated I know you're laughing I'm sure it's funny to you”
Topics Discussed
00:02:54
Introductions & relationship statuses
Guests introduce themselves with name, age, location, occupation. Panel discusses current relationship statuses including long-distance, polyamory, situationships, and singlehood.
00:26:49
American men vs international men
Discussion on whether American men lack effort compared to international men. Toia and Shay argue international men (European, Israeli, Australian) put in more effort and are more mature. Jake and Brian push back.
00:35:00
Do men make enough effort in dating
Main debate: whether men make adequate effort in modern dating. Panel discusses LA dating culture, hookup culture at UCSB, and what constitutes effort (flowers, dates, communication).
01:34:24
How long to wait before sex / the waiting standard
Extended debate on whether women should wait to have sex vs sleeping with someone immediately. Discussion of double standards when women sleep with some men immediately but make others wait. Reddit post about woman sleeping with FWB while making boyfriend wait.
02:27:00
Ho phases & past promiscuity
Panel discusses personal "ho phases." Kayla describes overlapping dating at ages 17-19. Katie discusses polyamory. Jake reflects on his own promiscuous past and regrets.
03:00:00
Do men need to pay on first dates
Brian argues men should only pay for traditionally-minded women. If a woman is non-traditional, she should expect non-traditional treatment (50/50).
03:06:00
Penis size discussion
Tangential discussion after TTS donation. Guests estimate ideal penis size via hand gestures on camera.
03:09:06
Vanika / Naraj proposal moment
Brian stages a mock marriage proposal between Vanika and her admirer Naraj (who drove her to the show after her car broke down). Vanika tries on a ring but declines immediate marriage.
03:13:00
Polyamory / open relationships
Katie discusses non-monogamy and having a primary overseas lover. Brian and Jake argue polyamory is bad for society and family formation. Destiny divorce cited as example.
03:36:00
What guests are looking for in a partner
Guests share their dream partner lists. Toia reads her lengthy written list. Brian shares his detailed preferences including dislike of plastic surgery, preference for natural women, introverts, low body count.
04:00:00
Feminism: history, the patriarchy, wage gap
Jake quotes feminist Mallerie Millett on destroying the American family. Discussion on whether women are oppressed, the wage gap, STEM participation, and the definition of patriarchy.
04:53:00
Are women better looking now or in 10/20 years
Light topic: guests say whether they think they will be better looking in 10 or 20 years. Most say yes; Brian says he peaked at 19 and won't be better looking.
05:30:00
Men vs women oppression: warfare & conscription
Brian argues male-specific suffering from warfare and forced military conscription outweighs all women's collective grievances. Guests debate selective service, bodily autonomy, circumcision, and historical context.
Transcript
Page 7 of 7
05:39:04
Kaylasomething like build protect five
05:39:13
Toiacreate yeah I definitely think Society needs men I think I don't think that every woman needs a man um As a caretaker in her
05:39:23
Kaylalife not every woman but I do think Society 100% needs men men need need women because I think in like you're a Christian didn't like women come from
05:39:35
Katieman or was it the other way around was created from the rib of Adam so was created she was created actually as as a hel for ad in my opinion Men Are from Mars and women are from Venus and we're both here
05:39:47
Brian Atlason this Earth for a reason that was beautiful thank you what she said it's a great book too okay all right um I'm trying to think well we're going to wrap up um really Last Chance
05:40:00
Brian Atlasanyone final closing statement from anybody before I wrap up here 3 2 one want to add something okay like a
05:40:11
Arianaold conversation but yeah I think that men even though they may be providing and the woman may be at home I still think it's their responsibility to raise the child and be involved there still
05:40:22
Arianahas to be emotional support from the father and there should be engagement as well it's not just all on the do you want a response from that was that directed at what we were talking about before yeah
05:40:34
TTS Readeryeah so I think there's a mischaracterization from both of you that's that when you what I say Mezo rifo donated $100 the patriarchy favors women and
05:40:46
TTS Readerprotects them the patriarchy must remain strong and true it is in fact a double-edged sword for men power in exchange for plenty disadvantages we need each other yeah
05:40:59
Jakeyeah so like yeah like like I was saying you said before that you didn't want a response when you said it that that you think that women should be Pro providers
05:41:10
Jakeand mothers I think that it's doable yeah women women can be providers as well you can be that's fine and what was your statement again that the men need to be there for the children yeah so no
05:41:22
Jakeone ever said that women can't be providers and that men shouldn't be there for their children but I'm just talking about I was talking about in my ideal standards it would be the man who's the provider and the mother would take the the primary role with the
05:41:35
Vanikachildren so she want to say is like taking care of a kid is supposed to be equal no as long that's what she's trying to say and that are you are you saying like 50/50 in terms that they should spend the same amount of time
05:41:47
Arianawith the child when it's when it's young not the same amount of time but they should definitely spend time with the child just because they work doesn't mean they don't got to or child there should be responsibility on
05:41:58
Jaketheir side it should equal or not equal that's what I'm saying equal so you think it should be 50/50 the man should take care of the
05:42:09
Jakechild and just as much as the mother and should spend just as much time do you think that the child needs the mother more in that time or the father more I think they may need the mother more but that doesn't mean they don't need the father as well I didn't say that they don't need the father as well I think
05:42:22
Jakesaid do they need the mother more in that time when they're young when they're breastfeeding yeah we could say they need the mother more so that's that's what I'm saying that the mother should probably take that primary role but I'm not saying that men shouldn't have a
05:42:33
Jakerole but I say that the primary role of a man would be to provide for the family to be to go to work do the hours that you need to do and make sure that the mother doesn't have anything to worry about financially and that she's got a roof over her head she's got things are all sorted the dad's role is to make
05:42:47
Jakesure everything's sorted so that she can do her best role to raise the kids that's what I think but I don't think that she he shouldn't have any involvement okay yeah and also I don't think that the mother can't work she can work if she really desires to for sure
05:42:59
Brian Atlasshe can your your opinions on that will probably change when you have kids but yeah we'll see okay last hot take here this is for the feminist then I'm going to wrap up the show directed towards the
05:43:12
Brian Atlasfeminists related to our patriarchy and feminism and oppression talk hot take men have been more oppressed than women agree or disagree in some sense
05:43:24
Brian Atlasagree in some sense disagree in totality are we talking about in history as well all throughout history or historically and current and currently and currently
05:43:36
Brian Atlasand currently o no disagree historically definitely not definitely not okay anybody V agree agree I'm still
05:43:48
Brian Atlasanalyzing what okay what about you thoughts you're feminist disagree into the mic if you can I disagree disagree say wait men have been more oppressed than women men have been more oppressed
05:43:59
Katiethan women both historically and in current time modern time I think I disagree disagree Katie I disagree historically but I definitely see it
05:44:10
TTS Readerbecoming an issue currently currently okay yeah grid One Motorsports donated $100 women care of infants and the
05:44:19
TTS Readerhousehold men raised children and mold children into grown men and women all studies point to children raised by men do better than children raised by
05:44:29
Lilymothers alone yo she said did you hear what she said she said this guy has too much money if you ever feel like you want to share money I'll drop my VMO in the bik
05:44:40
Brian Atlasoh snap okay my way uh uh so thank you grid One Motorsports appreciate it um did what was your
05:44:52
Kaylaanswer to my thing I agree with Katie Kayla your thoughts I feel like his torically they had harsher duties and less Freedom they
05:45:03
Kaylajust kind of were given like hard things to do um one of them being protecting women which was harder to do back then because we were taken advantage
05:45:12
Kaylaof um I don't know about now I really haven't heard a man like complain about much I also deal with tough so I mean I could approach the argument from very uh
05:45:23
Brian Atlasquite a few ways I won't linger too long on this few minutes then we'll I promise we'll wrap up so um again there's a lot of different ways that I can make this argument but I'll
05:45:36
Brian Atlasjust use my what I consider to be my ultimate one so and this is for both modern day and throughout human history so if we look at gender specific
05:45:46
Brian AtlasGrievances and oppression um if I were to look at the worst one the worst women specific woman specific gender grievance and compare it to the worst male
05:45:58
Brian Atlasspecific gender grievance just comparatively and I I'll name it in a sec I think the male one is orders of magnitude worse than the mo the female one now if I were to even
05:46:10
Brian Atlascollectively take all of women's Collective Grievances and compare it to this one grievance that men have experienced throughout all of human history I would argue that that sole
05:46:21
Brian Atlasgrievance that men have nearly exclusively experienced outweighs in orders of magnitude more than all of women's Collective Grievances and that is
05:46:33
Brian AtlasWarfare now you have forced military conscription which adds even another layer So Not only was there just soldiers who volunteered to be soldiers but you also had men who did not want to
05:46:43
Brian Atlasgo to war who were forced into war and who came back either maimed injured
05:46:50
Brian Atlassevere severe um uh mental injury uh or just outright dead so um that so male
05:47:02
Brian Atlasspecific grievance I believe outweighs all of women's Collective grievances let's look at World War I let's look at World War II World War
05:47:11
Brian AtlasI casualties were tens of millions World War II casualties of War tens of millions these casualties injuries and
05:47:22
Brian Atlasdeaths were almost exclusively inflicted upon men uh the vast majority of which were not volunteer so soldiers they were conscripted into the army um you know the the suffering that
05:47:34
Brian Atlasmen not just the death not just the injury but the actual suffering that men have experienced in the midst of warfare take example trench warfare trench
05:47:43
Brian Atlastrench foot chemical weapons uh the the the these men lose their hearing tus from the the constant barrage of shells
05:47:54
Brian Atlasum it occurs to me that that is a far greater level of suffering ing than has been experienced by women including losing your child and the word that I'm
05:48:05
Brian Atlasnot allowed to say on here I'd like to counter with sex trafficking the Warfare of sex trafficking Warfare okay well let me ask you a qu okay we we'll have to use yeah we'll do we'll do sa would you
05:48:17
Unknownrather be would you rather be murdered or sa murdered murdered murdered murdered okay I mean okay that's that's fine would you
05:48:31
Katierather be murdered or lose your child I I enjoy what would you rather like do yourself die I would rather be I would rather child though it's a man's child as well but your point of saying that the mother's sole purpose is to be a
05:48:43
Katiemother and nurture and so we are that much more connected with that child so we are going to grieve the loss of the child that we are that much more connected to than a man I think it's probably fair to say that a mother would maybe grieve just as much but also it's
05:48:54
Brian Atlasa man's child he's losing a child just to be clear so your your argument is that let's just say throughout all of human history the the supposed the the
05:49:04
Brian Atlassex trafficking that has occurred to women is worse than the tens of millions or hundreds of millions of primarily male deaths that have have occurred
05:49:16
Katiethroughout all of human history yes because of patriarchy because of the war is part of that it but the war is part of patriarchy sexual assault is not part of patriarchy how many men do you think
05:49:27
Brian Atlasdecide you're mad at that that be mad at what how many men do you think decide if we go to war or not like how many women get decided if they're going to be as or
05:49:38
Katienot I'm not sure I'm calling the logic none of the women that get sexually assaulted I'm not following the logic on that at all does anyone else follow that logic no but you were your argument was
05:49:50
Brian Atlaswhen I said here's all the men that suffer because of warfare you said well who is inflicting that upon men and so your argument is but other men which to some degree is victim blaming what does I don't think that I think you totally
05:50:03
Brian Atlasjust twisted my words I don't think that's like at all what okay if if say a 100 men send 20 million men to war so th that
05:50:13
Brian Atlasthose 100 men happen to have a penis that doesn't diminish the fact that all those men that went to war were to some
05:50:22
Shaydegree engaged or that that they were in the midst of suffering perhaps they were forced to War I think what she's trying to say is
05:50:32
Shaythat uh the patriarchy is run by men and that patriarchy is what sent these men to war and then I think her argument is that um like these women that are sold
05:50:43
Shayinto sex trafficking these women around the world that are forced into you know marriage at 13 14 years old like I think it's horrible don't get me wrong I think
05:50:54
Brian AtlasI think essay I think saay and any sort of trafficking is a terrible thing but we're if we're having a an intellectual conversation about like quantifiably
05:51:05
Brian Atlaswhat is a larger a bigger suffering I mean you're going to tell me that tens of millions of men through maybe it's hundreds of millions of men who have died in
05:51:16
Brian AtlasWarfare is comparable to we don't I don't know what the numbers are but it's less than how many men have been to War and who have been casualties of War
05:51:29
Brian AtlasI don't think wait and I do want to address somebody made the point of while it's men sending other men to war actually if you look at Queens you look at uh
05:51:39
Brian Atlasmonarchies they did studies and they actually found that queens were just as likely or more likely to go to war than Kings so this whole Trope of well it's
05:51:50
Brian Atlasmen sending men to war actually queens were just as prepared to send men men to war so the whole argument of well it's men doing it to other men kind of Falls
05:52:02
Brian Atlasflat in that regard I'm sure if there's a if I I I am pretty sure if women occupied all positions of government in
05:52:12
Brian Atlasevery single country I'm pretty sure they're still going to be sending men to war you don't think so actually in other countries they send both men and women
05:52:23
Brian Atlaslike where like in Israel okay that's One Singular country there's other countries that what percentage of countries um what percentage of
05:52:33
Jakecountries have only male uh conscription I don't have that number I think you'd also look at the casualties in Israel as well and you'd see that the vast majority of them were men who are going onto the front lines and women are
05:52:46
Shaydoing other roles that goes on to my other point that I don't know if the comparison of Oppression could be quantifiable by the amount of death just because if we look at historically the oppression for women starts a earlier on
05:52:59
Jakehistorically like women weren't taught to read girls weren't allowed to go to school most people weren't the vast majority of the world was illiterate right yeah upwards of 90% of people were worked in agriculture started going to
05:53:10
Brian Atlasschool like most peasants regardless most peasants regardless of your gender were like extremely poor did not get an education even the wealthy the only only
05:53:23
Brian Atlaskids that they sent to school were the sons could there be a biological basis for that but you're talking about okay if there's a societal expectation that like women
05:53:34
Brian Atlasare going to get pregnant and they have to have kids and that would take them out of the workforce and your family only has the funds to send one of the
05:53:45
Brian Atlasson or the daughter this is before birth control this is before sanitation this is before women had access to like even Tamp on like so I think the world looked like
05:53:57
Brian Atlastotally and if you had limited resources and granted I'm in favor of the current social order where women are allowed to go into the workforce I'm in favor of it
05:54:08
Brian Atlashowever in the previous social order if you only had the resources to send one of your children into the workforce keep in let me just add one thing also
05:54:19
Brian Atlasmedicine was dog if you're a woman and you gave birth your the the M what is it the maternal uh your chance of dying during during giving birth was much higher back then than it was now
05:54:31
Brian Atlasand if the expectation on women was to go and have children and have kids wouldn't it make sense to invest those resources into someone who didn't have which we fixed now we have modern
05:54:42
Brian Atlasmedicine and hospitals wouldn't it make sense to invest that that those resources and that education into a man who doesn't have the risk of death because of
05:54:54
Shaypregnancy economical factors might still be a thing but at the end of the day that's oppression not allowing women to go to school is the definition of Oppression whether there are these
05:55:06
Shayeconomic factors whether there's an expectation that there's such a high level um probability that a woman would die at child birth these things might contribute to the way Society was run
05:55:17
Shaythere are of course there are reasons for this oppression it didn't come out of nowhere um economic factors were cause everything that you stated that's not incorrect correct but that does
05:55:29
Brian Atlascontribute to this history of Oppression so because now you mentioned education and women who didn't have access to education that was oppression is it are
05:55:40
Brian Atlasmen currently oppressed because less men go to
05:55:46
Brian Atlasuniversity if if the differential is 60% of degrees are being awarded to women versus 40% of men is that evidence of sexism and men being oppressed I think
05:55:57
Shaythat would require a lot more research maybe research has been done on the deciding factors of why those students were admitted and why those percentages because equality doesn't necessarily
05:56:08
Shaymean that we would see 50/50 numbers I'm not sure if a university is looking at two identical applications and they choose to choose a female over a male
05:56:18
Jakeative action yeah so and this happens all throughout the workforce as well people want to hire women over men they always get preferential treatment
05:56:28
Jakethat it's they're undoubtedly looked at more favorably in applications would you disagree um I mean if those are the
05:56:41
Brian Atlasfacts I haven't seen like research studies on that then well okay so let me bring it back to Warfare here really quick so currently in the United States and almost all countries in the world only
05:56:52
Brian Atlasmen are subject to military conscription um there are you might say well it's been a while since we have had a draft well if you look at the Vietnam War there are men that would be alive today
05:57:03
Brian Atlasthey could be in this they could have been in this room right now granted they would be in I don't know what in their 70s ' 80s or something rather old but they would still be alive today had it
05:57:14
Brian Atlasnot been for this very gendered issue of military conscription which is something that's only inflicted upon men and there are men who are alive today who have who
05:57:27
Brian Atlasare um I'm trying to think who are paraplegics who have deformities who have PTSD like mental scars that you
05:57:37
Brian Atlascouldn't imagine saw saw horrific things um various injuries that are alive today that are suffering a lot of homeless people who 80% happen to be men um a lot
05:57:47
Brian Atlasof homeless people are veterans so I mean uh you know this is something that and to this day I mean when it comes to Warfare all men in this country have to
05:57:59
Brian Atlasregister for the Selective Service something women don't have to do and so to me when it comes to feminism feem it occurs to me that feminism will only
05:58:09
Brian Atlassecure if if equality feminism will only secure equality if said equality stands to benefit women so feminism to me is not an
05:58:20
Brian Atlasequality movement because if said equality could somehow conceivably come to the detri detriment of women feminists will not fight tooth and nail
05:58:30
Brian Atlasfor it for example dra uh draft Equalization well women should be able to get drafted that would be equality wouldn't it but feminists are not fighting for that equality you only fight for the
05:58:42
Lilyequality that benefits you and that's why feminism is not a true equ egalitarian or equality movement well I think based on the argument I'm making about sex
05:58:54
Lilytrafficking my feminis feminist views are based on autonomy okay I think I have to argue for my bodily autonomy first before I can start advocating for other things that I need outside of what's going on right here if I can't
05:59:07
Brian Atlaseven control what's going on right here within my own body how do you expect me to fight for something beyond that right and the well the bodily autonomy argument is is perfectly applied to the
05:59:18
Brian Atlasforced military conscription argument and I would ask I would ask actually add another layer to it um first off uh abortion is not outright banned in I'm assuming you're talking about abortion
05:59:30
Brian Atlascorrect well I was going to talk about consent and sex or anything like that that's not something that's that's I mean I'm thinking of something that's legislated by the government yeah we can talk about abor um but depending on your state you can as a
05:59:43
Brian Atlaswoman you can still get an abortion in this country there are certain states where the roie Wade pushed it back down to the States um but I mean I think men have a far greater bodly autonomy argument to be made when it comes again
05:59:55
Brian Atlasto forced military conscription every single male in this country by law is required to register for the Selective Service and every male in this country depending on their age is
06:00:07
Brian Atlaspotentially subject to being forced to go and fight and to go and die and no offense to you but I would argue that's a bigger bigger bodly autonomy concern than
06:00:22
Brian Atlasabortion are you with or against military or do you have an opinion on that state well here's the the thing you cannot I don't think you can get rid of the draft so I'm not in I think we
06:00:33
Katieshould equalize the draft I think women should be subject to military conscription because there's just lening the war though like what's that what about lessening the need for
06:00:45
Brian Atlaswar like instead of being just like oh let's have equal like you where you stand on war is bad war is bad but like if you can never get rid of the draft
06:00:56
Brian Atlasbecause there's conceivably some scenario where you would need a draft so the it's never going to go away I don't care we should just remove this concept
06:01:08
Brian Atlasthat we can never abolish the draft what feminists need to start doing is fighting for women to be subject to military conscription to add on to that you might think well there's not going to be a draft blah blah blah if men
06:01:20
Brian Atlasdon't register for Selective Service it's a felony they face a $250,000 fine they if you don't register you could face certain penalties like you won't be eligible for certain F Federal benefits
06:01:32
Brian Atlasyou can't get certain federal jobs you can't get student loans um there's there's a few others that aren't Ur coming to me immediately but again if we're going to have a bodly autonomy discussion we absolutely need to
06:01:44
Brian Atlasconsider the lack of men's bodily autonomy and every single one we're in California women have bodily autonomy in California I don't know how many 18-year-old men there are uh while you guys go to UCSB there's about 20,000
06:01:56
Brian Atlasstudents at UC CB 10,000 of those are probably around your age cohorts from 18 to 21 they've all had to register for the selective service if they want to vote that's another thing I forgot so
06:02:09
Brian Atlasthat's certainly a lot of men locally who you know who don't really have bodly autonomy but I don't see feminists really fighting for any Equalization of of
06:02:19
Lilythat I feel like feminists are fighting for equal rights and focusing on focusing on getting females to wear men are and so one day maybe in the future but we have to get there that's like far
06:02:32
Lilyin the future I I see where you're coming from your point is 100% valid but I think there's just issues that we're working on right now and maybe one day in the future once we've achieved these issues then this bigger issue can be talked about you you think in the future
06:02:44
Brian Atlaswomen are or feminists are going to start advocating like they'll be in the streets with hats saying we want to get drafted too we want to get shell shot we want to get trench you guys are bringing up two contradictory opinions
06:02:57
Lilyyou say you want women to stay at home and nurture and raise the kids well in prior to this debate yeah not right now I'm talking about earlier in this conversation you guys had such strong ideal about how a woman like needs to be
06:03:09
Brian Atlasthe nurturer for the child I say that I just said I I don't I I just said I don't think a woman a woman's career makes her more physically like makes her more attractive as a potential I didn't
06:03:20
Jakesay that they have to I said that's my preference want protect them stay at home is my preference and if they do take that Ro upon themselves then I
06:03:32
Lilywould be willing to go to war we're talking about World War I that's 1918 back in that day people were having kids at 18 19 20 okay you're these women who many men had the same
06:03:43
Lilyexact values like you did so it made sense for the men to be dra exactly there's a lot of guys like you they think about this it makes sense for the guys to go out in war if a man has this if a man has this opinion that the woman
06:03:56
Jakeshould stay at home nurture the raised the kid you know so that way he has something to come home to when's back but then again like I'm I'm I'm saying that I'd be happy to do that and to take that to have that gender inequality if
06:04:07
Jakeif that was the case and if my wife was staying at home but you guys are saying that you don't want to play your role in the gender equality Spectrum if we're talking about traditional gender roles but you want us to play our role well that's we're now we're talking about
06:04:19
LilyWarfare if it's Warfare Warfare it's a different story because I think my my opinion on the matter would change based on circumstance personally for me what do you mean what do you mean what circumstance for example if there was a
06:04:30
Lilywar going on and was being drafted um and my let's say I had a husband right and I had a child I someone would need to stay at home whether it's me or my husband we have to make the decision who's staying at home and going to take care of the child that's why I say in
06:04:42
Lilytimes of warfare people go back to their tradition exctly in terms of warfare I would I would revert back to my traditional I 100% would so okay so you're a feminist uh the you're feminist in peace
06:04:53
Brian Atlastime yes sorry no you're you're yes you're feminist in is come full circle yeah there's no Fe there's no there's no Fein let's just go home we're going to rap we're going to rap soon but
06:05:05
Brian Atlasthe there's hold hold there's stop the there there's uh there's no feminist when uh China invades there's no feminist when Russia invades there's no you seen that Meme where like a lady cleaning the dishes
06:05:19
Brian Atlasand it say and it says like feminist dring water time ex yeah exactly um or not uh traditional women during uh war time yeah um oh there there was something on that uh oh wait no I'm
06:05:32
Lilyalmost done I swear I swear I swear you said that for the past 30 minut I swear no you said we 10 hold on hold on wait wait last thing last thing last last two things um wait what was it it was
06:05:42
Brian Atlasabout um oh okay okay sure so you you mentioned World War II you mentioned 1918 so in 1920 World War one was 1918
06:05:51
Brian AtlasWorld War II was like 1940 okay World War I was uh 1914 to 1918 world I was I believe 1939 to 1945
06:06:02
Brian Atlasum so in 1920 women got the right to vote now one and keep in mind for the vast majority of human history men the vast majority of men didn't have the right to vote it was a very small period
06:06:15
Brian Atlasvery small period of human history I think about a 100 years maybe maybe less than that where more men uh a gradual uh increase of of more men having the right
06:06:27
Brian Atlasto vote than women one of the the primary reason why that was is we were getting involved in these very like almost Global Wars a lot of Wars so men were had uh forced military conscription
06:06:40
Brian Atlasthe way that men got the right to vote before women is because men were subject to military conscription while women were not which in my view is a privilege it's a female privilege to not be subject to go be forced onto a
06:06:51
Brian Atlasbattlefield and go again go get trenchfoot go get chemical gas go get a shell through your skull I think it's a privilege that women got to stay
06:07:00
Brian Atlashome let me ask you a question in 19 let's say you're it's 1914 you're an 18-year-old you're in Germany or France
06:07:10
Brian Atlaswould you prefer to be an 18-year-old man or an 18-year-old woman in France or in Germany in 1914 think a man actually you'd prefer
06:07:22
Lilyto be a man I think that a lot of guys had um they felt honored to fight for their country I think that pride is we liked it like yeah it was it propaganda it's absolute propaganda okay were you an 18-year-old can you relate to that
06:07:35
Brian Atlaswere you under the influence of propaganda how do you know like do you know how brutal World War I was World War I was the most up until that point was and you could actually argue in some ways World War I was more brutal than
06:07:47
Brian AtlasWorld War II oh no I know the trench warfare you know these these men were on the front lines for months they didn't sleep for months
06:07:59
Brian Atlasroaring shells past you half of your friends all dead you have trench foot your foot is literally black you've been chemical gas you have chemical burns all over your body your ears are ringing
06:08:10
Brian Atlasbecause it's you've been bombarded with shells for months on end you've lost your hearing you you you haven't
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Brian Atlasslept uh yeah World War I was pretty bad mhm and this whole Trope of military Glory that's what the propagandist wants that's what that's what the the P I
06:08:31
Brian Atlasdon't know if Patriots are the right word that's what the propaganda wants to teach men y the reality is Warfare is
06:08:39
Brian Atlasbrutal in ways you cannot imagine there is no glory in war it will break men and
06:08:47
Brian Atlasum the horrors of War cannot be uh the horrors of War just cannot be what's the word I'm looking it's ineffable you can't say it in words
06:08:58
Brian Atlaswords SC if anybody wants to see what's going on in Ukraine at the moment I'll send you some telegram group they tell men that there's glory in war but the reality is when you're freezing cold in
06:09:08
Brian Atlasthe trenches in amen or in the in the ardens or the Argon forest in France and you've been fighting Germans for nine months and you've got chemical burns from the chemical gas you've got
06:09:20
Brian Atlastrench foot you've haven't seen uh you've seen H uh the three4 course of your uh military comrades killed in action you've got ringing
06:09:33
Lilyttis uh I'm sorry but like yes that is I feel personally oppressed right now I was say can we please all we want to go home no
06:09:44
Brian Atlaswe're not going to talk because we are so tired you did a great job clap to the patriarchy last thing on balot I I swear I iwe I promise I promise I promise wait wait last thing last thing last thing
06:09:57
Brian Atlasmodern day modern day last thing last wait wait wait hold on hold on hold on last last thing last thing last thing last thing okay upon birth upon birth oh my God done we're done we're done it's
06:10:11
Brian Atlasliterally going to take me 30 seconds upon birth a literally 30 seconds trust me when it comes to bodily autonomy every single every single not I shouldn't say every single most men in
06:10:23
Brian Atlasthis country are circumcised upon birth let's talk about Bly aut omy they don't have the choice uh that that should be something that they should be able to consent to they they don't have consent they're they're infants um they're they
06:10:35
Brian Atlashave their genitals mutilated I know you're laughing I'm sure it's funny to you that that all these these boys in this country and various other countries have their genitals mutilated without their consent on birth but that's let's
06:10:48
Brian Atlashave a conversation about bodily autonomy those are two ways that men don't have bodly autonomy I'll leave it at that I don't think you want to respond I'm going to wrap up the show all right
06:11:00
Brian Atlasguys Good Times guys twitch.tv/ whatever drop us a follow drop us a prime sub thank you guys appreciate it all right guys last call hit the like button please on your we don't have any chats right Nick um no we're good okay we're
06:11:12
Brian Atlaswe're good on chat um wait you sure yeah we're good okay guys last call hit the what no that's okay last call hit the like button please on your way out thank you for tuning in tonight you could have been anywhere in the world but you're
06:11:24
Brian Atlashere with me I appreciate that thank you to everyone you can hide that Nick thank you to everyone who super chats donates and supports the show any girls who want to be on the show DM whatever on Instagram if you can make it to Santa Barbara thank you to the wonderful panel
06:11:36
Brian Atlastonight um that was it was a good conversation I'm sure I made a lot of friends there with that last 30 30 minutes um thank you thank you guys to the panel I know we went a little late I appreciate that guys 07s in the chat we
06:11:48
Brian Atlaswill oh guys we're going to be live on Thursday got a big guest coming Thursday be sure to tune in Thursday we're doing two shows on Thursday um midday and then
06:11:57
Brian Atlasour dating talk okay guys 07s in the chat good night guys we'll see you next
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