Men Make NO EFFORT?! What Do They Bring To The Table? HEATED DEBATE w/ Feminists! | Dating Talk #131
Date: 2024-01-31
Duration: 6h 12m
Guests
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_00TTS Reader(audience)
SPEAKER_01Jake(guest)
SPEAKER_03Ariana(guest)
SPEAKER_04Kayla(guest)
SPEAKER_06Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_07TTS Reader(audience)
SPEAKER_08Lily(guest)
SPEAKER_09Toia(guest)
SPEAKER_10Vanika(guest)
SPEAKER_11Shay(guest)
SPEAKER_12Katie(guest)
Key Moments
00:02:54
IntroGuest introductions begin. Kayla opens as first guest: tooth technician, 24, Joshua Tree CA.
“my name is Kayla I'm 24 years old I'm from Joshua Tree California and I am a tooth technician”
00:03:15
IntroToia introduces herself: 20yo UCSB economics student, Bay Area. Says she is "so single and so happy about it."
“hi I'm toia I'm a 20-year-old from the Bay Area I go to school here at UCSB and I'm a student”
00:03:16
IntroKatie introduces herself as non-monogamous/polyamorous with an overseas lover.
“my name is Katie I'm 29 I'm originally from Vermont and I work in child care”
01:34:24
Key MomentBrian states his personal rule: if he goes on a first date and is interested, all other men must be out of the picture before a second date.
“my personal standard on this is if I go on the first date with a girl and I'm interested in pursuing her all the other guys have to be a rap”
02:34:42
QuoteJake discloses that his own promiscuous past has "come back to bite" him with principled women.
“if I could take back time I'd probably be a little bit more frugal with it if I was your age”
03:09:06
OtherNaraj mock proposal moment: Brian puts a ring on Vanika's finger on-air. Vanika says she would consider marrying Naraj if he is willing to wait while she builds herself.
“he drove you here yes because my car broke... will you marry Naraj”
03:48:06
OtherToia reads her lengthy written list of partner requirements live on air, covering ~20+ detailed criteria.
“emotional and not afraid to admit their feelings existential and or philosophical interested in the world driven and ambitious...”
04:04:12
QuoteJake states his ideal woman must 'fear God', preferably be a virgin or very low body count, feminine, submissive, and want to have a big family.
“she has to fear God she has to be a Godly woman she has to not has to but preferably a virgin if not a very low body count with only Partners feminine submissive loyal and just wants to have a family and multiply”
04:07:24
OtherBrian reads out his detailed partner preference list on air — including preference for natural bodies, no plastic surgery, no big labia plasty, moderate looks, introversion, low body count.
“any race is fine but I do have a slight preference for white women... strong preference for no plastic surgery no fake tits no fake lips no BBL”
04:38:00
ControversyJake claims feminism is "the worship of the devil" and cites book Occult Feminism by Rachel Wilson.
“feminism is the worship of the devil... you can read a book called occult feminism by Rachel Wilson”
04:45:12
Key MomentKayla reads out Mallerie Millett quote on destroying the American family through promiscuity and homosexuality.
“why are we here today she asked to make a revolution... how do we destroy the American patriarchy by destroying monogamy... by promoting promiscuity eroticism prostitution and homosexuality”
05:31:48
ControversyBrian's warfare argument: male suffering in WWI/WWII and forced conscription outweighs all women's collective grievances historically and in modern day.
“that sole grievance that men have nearly exclusively experienced outweighs in orders of magnitude more than all of women's Collective Grievances and that is Warfare”
06:08:00
QuoteBrian closes show noting circumcision as modern-day male bodily autonomy argument.
“most men in this country are circumcised upon birth... they have their genitals mutilated I know you're laughing I'm sure it's funny to you”
Topics Discussed
00:02:54
Introductions & relationship statuses
Guests introduce themselves with name, age, location, occupation. Panel discusses current relationship statuses including long-distance, polyamory, situationships, and singlehood.
00:26:49
American men vs international men
Discussion on whether American men lack effort compared to international men. Toia and Shay argue international men (European, Israeli, Australian) put in more effort and are more mature. Jake and Brian push back.
00:35:00
Do men make enough effort in dating
Main debate: whether men make adequate effort in modern dating. Panel discusses LA dating culture, hookup culture at UCSB, and what constitutes effort (flowers, dates, communication).
01:34:24
How long to wait before sex / the waiting standard
Extended debate on whether women should wait to have sex vs sleeping with someone immediately. Discussion of double standards when women sleep with some men immediately but make others wait. Reddit post about woman sleeping with FWB while making boyfriend wait.
02:27:00
Ho phases & past promiscuity
Panel discusses personal "ho phases." Kayla describes overlapping dating at ages 17-19. Katie discusses polyamory. Jake reflects on his own promiscuous past and regrets.
03:00:00
Do men need to pay on first dates
Brian argues men should only pay for traditionally-minded women. If a woman is non-traditional, she should expect non-traditional treatment (50/50).
03:06:00
Penis size discussion
Tangential discussion after TTS donation. Guests estimate ideal penis size via hand gestures on camera.
03:09:06
Vanika / Naraj proposal moment
Brian stages a mock marriage proposal between Vanika and her admirer Naraj (who drove her to the show after her car broke down). Vanika tries on a ring but declines immediate marriage.
03:13:00
Polyamory / open relationships
Katie discusses non-monogamy and having a primary overseas lover. Brian and Jake argue polyamory is bad for society and family formation. Destiny divorce cited as example.
03:36:00
What guests are looking for in a partner
Guests share their dream partner lists. Toia reads her lengthy written list. Brian shares his detailed preferences including dislike of plastic surgery, preference for natural women, introverts, low body count.
04:00:00
Feminism: history, the patriarchy, wage gap
Jake quotes feminist Mallerie Millett on destroying the American family. Discussion on whether women are oppressed, the wage gap, STEM participation, and the definition of patriarchy.
04:53:00
Are women better looking now or in 10/20 years
Light topic: guests say whether they think they will be better looking in 10 or 20 years. Most say yes; Brian says he peaked at 19 and won't be better looking.
05:30:00
Men vs women oppression: warfare & conscription
Brian argues male-specific suffering from warfare and forced military conscription outweighs all women's collective grievances. Guests debate selective service, bodily autonomy, circumcision, and historical context.
Transcript
Page 3 of 7
01:53:33
ShayI stands is because when some of these girls might sleep with them right away they're not envisioning a relationship they don't want to see them pass this one hookup two hookups but like don't you think that don't you think that
01:53:45
Jakethere's there's something that is that you're giving away that's special there that's what we're trying to get at when we're saying he's done this special act for four other girls and then you come around and then you you're not getting that special act just yet you have to
01:53:58
Shaywait for it I think there's different ideas of special um sure I think everyone thinks that sex is special but I also feel like letting someone in to know my
01:54:10
Shaypersonality is also special so like if I'm waiting a few weeks with someone that um I I want to date they're getting to know me more than any of these other people are getting to know me which I
01:54:22
Shaythink in its way is special and some people don't care about sex you know other people's do it's it's very much so based on individual people do you think for the most part though that guys are going to care about that guys are going
01:54:35
Shayto care about who who you've slept with especially if that if they know the people yeah and I think it's okay for them to care I think it's okay for them to judge I know we women we also judge I don't want to date someone with a huge
01:54:46
Shaybody count tons of one night stands I think that goes both ways you have a right to judge you have a right to leave but in the conversation of how we're feeling we're just explaining that when
01:54:57
Jakewe want a relationship with someone and we don't things differ yeah right I get that how you guys feel about it though but do you empathize with how the guy feels about it that's that's that's the different part and I'm saying they have a right to not be interested they have a
01:55:10
Jakeright to leave I'm not saying they have to stick it through what's the if you're dating somebody say for the first few months or whatever it is what what are the most important factors to that what's the most important thing for you that just says is this guy worth dating
01:55:22
Jakeor is he not honesty yeah anything else loyalty yeah yeah so if he was not honest and loyal with you at the start but you know that
01:55:34
Jakehe was honest and loyal with five other girls would that upset you yeah but that is not a comparison to why not you can't comp you just said it's most important for one of the things that's most important for me is that is that she hasn't slept with a lot of people that's
01:55:47
Jakeacceptable if that's what's most important to you then absolutely right I'm not denying what you're saying or that you can get upset that's not my argument at all but then so so I I guess at the end of the day we kind of do
01:55:59
Jakeagree in a way because we're both allowed to have our standards but the problem is that I kind of I I get where you guys are coming from sometimes I don't really think that you girls really get where where we're coming from though like why we have those objections and
01:56:11
Katieyou you tend to think about it from your own prism but go on you add something yes um okay so I think what we're talking about is on both sides to even it is that we're talking about the past
01:56:22
Katieright yes and that we can't we don't know what happened in someone's past unless we choose to have the conversation with them if we're judging them from their past right off that's going to be your
01:56:34
Katiewin or loss and that's for you to decide if you want to have that conversation or not people experience life
01:56:42
Katieand all parts of life growing up in um in different ways and possibly have trauma in different ways and things happen so it goes all from finding out
01:56:53
Katiethose things you know if you don't know if that person grew up in a way that that was normalized or whatever and they were promiscuous when they were younger but now they're realizing oh that we are
01:57:06
Katiemore sacred that I don't want to be giving my body out like that like I've the best relationships are being able to see that that person changed and being that it's not oh you slept with all them first why aren't you sleeping with me
01:57:18
Jakefirst it's seeing okay I can see you at maybe a little bit more immature state of state of your time of your life um so you're saying that that everybody grows up differently we all have our past traumas and
01:57:31
Katiesometimes you know you were promiscuous in the past but now you've you've changed your ways and somebody should accept you for that I I don't like to use the word should that's one of my things I'm
01:57:42
Katietrying to eliminate that word but why not should yeah it's quite a common word in the it is a very common word um there's a lot of common words that we could delete from our language but
01:57:53
Katieshould is a word it just makes us judge each other um put ourselves against like um compare ourselves to each other and then it makes us give oursel standards that we're not really doing
01:58:06
Katiewe're saying that oh we should do this we should do this we should do this it's saying like you're putting yourself at failure question I have a question on the should thing yeah if you have a child should you feed the
01:58:18
Katiechild that I mean it is best looked upon to feed the child do you wait do do you who to say
01:58:29
Katieone should or shouldn't do hold on a child needs to eat do you object to this the following sentence people should feed their children I say
01:58:40
Katieparents need to feed their children okay but did you object to what he said and the way that he phrased it do you also object to the word need because need seems well I wasn't finishing my finishing my thing about it so with
01:58:52
Katieshould anytime that you use should you can mostly replace it with W or could and W is the actual that you're willing to do it or that you possibly could do it what's your basic should what's wrong
01:59:04
Nickwith's a good what about now you're just using synonyms do you like ought is a good word I don't know what that means you don't know ought someone ought to do something ought refers to it being a natur should I Google it let me just Google the definition of art use that in
01:59:16
Katiesort of more relig religious talk art so this came me though with when I so what when I had a boyfriend right that he was not getting his license he had his license removed and then he could get it back and I was just like he should get
01:59:28
Katiehis license he should get his license and then someone asked me who's to say what one should or shouldn't do it's the whole Butterfly Effect you don't know what's going to happen if I pushed him and said you should get your license you should get your license he gets his license and gets in a car accident who's
01:59:41
Jaketo say that he was supposed to get his license at that time okay it's all on people's own time to say I feel like you I feel like you read this on a tarot card some somewhere and and now now you don't really know why you said
01:59:52
Jakeit this is I actually have a whole curriculum for child care based off of this really you teach kids that they shouldn't say should H do you teach kids that they shouldn't say the word should I encourage education around the word
02:00:05
Jakedon't but like I think I feel like when you say that people shouldn't say the word should you're saying that there are no sort of objective there are no objective standards so you so people should do whatever they want to do all the time you can do whatever you want to
02:00:18
Jakedo but is that your beef with should because you're telling people that we shouldn't say that people should do anything I'm not saying you shouldn't so you know what I'm saying though so so is is ultimately why you
02:00:31
Jakedon't like the word should is because you don't believe that there should be objective standards is that what you're saying I'm not sure because if I say that that someone should feed their children I think I could also say that someone ought to feed their children
02:00:44
Jakebecause it's like that makes sense to make it an ought claim but if I say somebody should feed feed their children I'm saying that there's an objective standard on a second I'm just saying I'm saying that there's an objective standard that we all have to abide by that people should feed their children
02:00:58
Katieshould is a judgment that's automatically making that they will feed their children they can feed their children it doesn't matter my judgment has no opin do you object to judgments I limit judgment I think it's
02:01:10
Jakea powerful word I would say should yeah well I mean yeah I just feel like that you're saying that because you don't believe that there is anything objective because then how how can you eliminate the word should if you think that there
02:01:22
Katieare objectiv because most times that you use the word should in from now forward in your future from here try it when you're about to say should try to replace it with would or could no because I actually have that will give you more Integrity to your life it won't
02:01:35
Katiemake you be like Oh I'm going to like half ass this or I'm going to oh I should do that this isers I think it did definitely go left field from what it just depends on your worldview that's what I find interesting though because in my worldview I have
02:01:47
Kaylathings that I I love to talk to about this more on some other time I use sh a lot as a positive um encouraging thing like oh you should do this to like Inspire somebody like I don't know but then that makes them feel like they have
02:02:00
Brian Atlasthey're like oh I have to do this it put so much pressure and comparison on each other iron sharpens iron pressure is a great thing well let's I I do want to come back to the kind of the the thing
02:02:11
Katiethat we were talking about can I put my okay when can I get back to that no I was trying to talk about the other thing it was a fair statement going actually back to the whole um what should women put into the relationship when men what
02:02:24
Katiewhen men put into the relationship all the things that they're doing that we said that we wanted really let's clear the elephant in the room that if men put in women put out that's pretty much it
02:02:35
Katieis and yes I totally understand what you're saying and that if you if you see the woman and she's
02:02:42
Katielike oh you slept with all them I lost my Chain of Thought
02:02:52
Jakeyeah I am that old so you're saying that um you said that if men put in women put out so if men put the effort in then women put out and that's oh and that's
02:03:02
TTS Readerwhy another part donated $200 I'm amazed at the mental gymnastics these women perform to justify female promiscuity your fathers have failed you
02:03:14
Brian AtlasI wonder what does basically India think about American loose women do you you agree uh I wonder what does basically India think about American loose women
02:03:25
Jakewhat do you think about Bas about American loose women say it again please so he said that um what he said not what I'm saying is that these women at the table do mental gymnastics to justify
02:03:38
Jakefemale promiscuity what do you think about American loose women is what he said do you think that American women are loose loose like what the body no as in like they don't have much standards I don't think so so it's nothing like that
02:03:50
Kaylaabout standards or something it's just what they are are are Indian women like more reserved would you say talking about sex
02:04:01
KaylaI'm not no I kind of feel like they're more orish but I'm not they pretty H that came out of the left fi Indi India like very like open and like like KRA is
02:04:13
Jakethat what she say Indians get freaky freaky with their family friends you seen like the there like Gods with eight arms and stuff gods of love and sexuality and
02:04:25
TTS Readerstuff hold on one Motorsports donated $200 by way doc thank you man the scary thing is Community College any interacts with children in a teaching role I weep
02:04:36
TTS Readerfor our youth it is simple men are Hunters if you want them to want you be prey also do not do drugs word I agree don't do drugs PSA
02:04:47
Brian Atlasthis is a dare program do not do drugs hey gri one man thank you I appreciate it um okay uh I do want to continue on this a little bit so uh I was going to go around the table we'll wait until she's
02:05:00
Brian Atlasback before I go around the table on the question I had I do think that um I think there are some men that think if a woman makes him wait for sex it's a green flag but actually I think in 2023
02:05:13
Brian AtlasI think it's just she's Just Not That Into You or banging somebody else to be honest if she makes you wait I mean that's what my thought process I have a couple other analogies here I'd like to uh go over here's some other analogies
02:05:25
Brian Atlasperhaps we can Hammer the point home uh let's see here I think did I do the McDonald's one I might wait hold on okay here we go here's one
02:05:35
Brian Atlasokay uh let's do I do this one hold on uh we we'll do that in just a sec um uh imagine every woman the man she's going
02:05:47
Brian Atlasfor has dated in the past got tons of effort trips to Hawaii Paris Tokyo personally selected gifts based on her likes excellent communication on
02:05:57
Brian Atlaseverything she needs to know about and now that she gets with him new guy right he decides to be very tight with his money and effort no trips further than to Target in their local city gifts are
02:06:09
Brian Atlaslike maybe a maybe a $50 gift card to Sephora um and yeah uh then when she asks what's up
02:06:20
Brian Atlaswith him doing so much less for her he says it's because I knew they were just momentary fun but I think you might be the perfect partner so you have to earn all the effort I normally just give out
02:06:31
Kaylafreely to the other women I've dated I wouldn't be with him I think I would want to have fun with him if he had the means to not necessarily feel like I'm earning it from someone who
02:06:43
Kaylashould Unconditionally Love Me So you're saying that you you wouldn't be with that guy probably not what's keeping me there maybe he's he's amazing inside and out but like I'd want
02:06:55
Kaylato be on the same page with his like thought process with saving money I think I would just tell myself he was just trying to save money not that I would have to necessarily earn it so you wouldn't be with him because he's trying
02:07:05
Jaketo save money no I would oh so you that way I would yeah i' support that so you would be okay just to like make it clear you would be okay with the fact this guy
02:07:17
Jakehas made all of this effort for girls who are just nothing to him but when it comes to you you like you're fine with just no effort I don't know a single fale that I've ever met that would actually be okay are we dating and he
02:07:30
Kaylawas being like that I'd probably just break up with him and I'm not going to feel like I don't know I have enough pressures on myself like to be good I don't need somebody else like oh I'm not
02:07:41
TTS Readergoing to buy this both sides donated $200 the woman with the rag on her head you are the biggest PSA for genital herpes is so dangerous it's your brain
02:07:52
Brian Atlasto and your lady Parts must be rancid at this point Jesus Christ holy J Butler bring it in oh my okay all right Jesus Christ Jay Butler normally he's
02:08:04
Brian Atlasmore tame I don't know what got into him tonight uh he's a gy no he's a what's urologist thank you yeah so he always talks about heres and various ailments
02:08:14
Brian Atlasthat impact you know these sorts of things okay um I have more analogies here when it comes to well you used to have a bunch of casual sex but now you found a guy you like you want to have a
02:08:24
Brian Atlasrelationship with him so now uh you're going to make him wait um this would be the same as if a guy were to say or this was how a guy was moving he used to take his dates to three star Michelin
02:08:36
Brian Atlasrestaurants but he doesn't do that anymore so you can take the bus and meet him at McDonald's now there's a boss or you go to McDonald's you go to McDonald's right
02:08:46
Brian Atlasokay um the cashier the cashier in front of you is like um what is it the cashier there's three people in front of you they all get a cheeseburger for $2
02:08:58
Brian Atlas$3 whatever you finally get to the cashier and they say that'll be a th000 for you because I like you the most those other customers were just a
02:09:06
Unknownmistake or I was just having fun no okay what a question is ridiculous was that does doesn't make sense is that
02:09:19
Kaylaso I get $1,000 Burger I get a $1,000 Burger when everybody else got the regular priz mhm wait why would he do that that's a good question that's a good question yeah so
02:09:31
Brian Atlasyou're at McDonald's right you're in line for for a burger you you the three people in front of you they get a burger for two bucks you get to the front of the line yeah the cashier's like that'll
02:09:42
Brian Atlasbe $ thousand dollar for you I have to nothing's changed by the way um and you get extra pickles now you're getting by the industry so lucky you and you just see
02:09:55
Jakethose people just hoing down on their burger like a like a pig at the trough and you're just you're just there not knowing what to do okay here is it cuz I'm
02:10:06
Nickblack are you black no okay you get the gift of the chance to walk away how did brace skip run into the just a comment no it's more about
02:10:18
Lilyprivileged than rice I think with all the analogies that you're making it's pretty clear that you should feel upset but I think when we're talking about sex I think it's more personal like I think at the end of the day it's just how you feel if you want to if you want to have sex with woman you're going to have sex
02:10:31
Lilywith them if you don't you don't like food sex to very different things the analogies you're making clearly you are 100% in the right on that but when it comes to sex you have sex when you want to have sex whether it's the first date whether it's the third dat whether it's
02:10:43
Lilythe eighth dat do you think that's a good way to float through life is that you have sex whenever you want to have sex no I think for right now for the age personally that I'm at I think that's great but I think when I want to settle down and have a relationship but even
02:10:54
TTS Readerfor the age that you're at now don't you think to the price grid One Motorsports donated $200 imagine being such a red Flagger guy pretends he has a penny left on his
02:11:05
TTS Readerdebit card to get out of his date with you or is 2 hours late and brings a friend just make sure you never call him again maybe he wasn't feeling you and he you know maybe who knows I guess the
02:11:18
Brian Atlaswaitress was in on it oh okay thank you grid one appreciate it um but again when it comes to this like
02:11:29
Brian AtlasI me personally if a girl had sex with 100 men on the first date and then she
02:11:38
Brian Atlaswanted to wait until marriage for the number 1001 that's her call that's her choice however for me personally and what I would actually recommend to other
02:11:50
Brian Atlasmen that is a completely unacceptable standard for you to that that let me reframe that that's not a woman that you'd want to pursue mhm that
02:12:02
Jakemakes sense like that would scenario makes sense but that's not going to be the scenario in most Cas I think if we get down to the nucleus of the point though what we're saying is that we have these sorts of standards and you guys are basically saying okay you can have
02:12:14
Jakeyour standards we don't care does it make you rethink it though if you actually did like a guy and if and if there was sort of that tension would would that make you rethink the mindset that you're in now which is I'm young
02:12:26
JakeI'm just going to have sex with whoever I want to absolutely absolutely it makes you re rethink it as in like maybe I should be a little bit more sort of frugal in my in my younger years I think if I meet the right guy I'm going to be I'm going to settle down with him I like
02:12:39
Jakehim like I don't want to be having sex with anyone else I want to be having sex with you but like that's that's not the question though the question was more like in your CU you like you're college students now and these days with the college students I mean it's just free
02:12:51
Jakelove everywhere and you know and I'm somebody who's not a choir boy by any means like you know I've I've done all the promiscuous stuff and I would say that there even for me as a guy there's an element of regret when you look back
02:13:01
Jakeat your younger years and the more promiscuous days do you guys ever have that sort of thought process at the moment when when you are that younger age that you're like at the peak of your
02:13:12
Toiasexual value at the moment speak on that from an older age for sure I mean like I got into my first relation or my my serious relationship when I was 18 and I lost my virginity at 19 so I I you know
02:13:24
Toiawaited to have sex I would say maybe over the average age I don't know what the average age people lose their virginities to and that's something that I wanted to do for myself you know and that's I don't regret that you know but I don't also would never shame anyone
02:13:37
Toiaanyone else or judge anyone else if they lost their virginity younger or if they engaged in sexual acts younger as well it depends on the person it depends what you value and what makes you feel good would you recommend it what you did waiting until you're
02:13:52
Jake18 for me it worked really I mean for me I I don't know I can't tell anyone else what to do I'm not saying that you're telling people else like other people what to do but I'm saying that as a society like we have some sort of
02:14:04
Jakestandards and you know as as a person I've just told you that in in my past I've had you know quite a promiscuous past at times I've done all the traveling I know exactly what you're talking about and even as a guy sometimes it comes back to me and it
02:14:16
Jakebites me because you meet a really moral principled woman and then she's she probably maybe she wouldn't be so interested in me so if I if I could take back time I'd probably be a little bit more frugal with it if I was your age not even giving you advice I'm just
02:14:28
Katiesaying that's the way I'd do it can I ask a question yep so correct me if I'm wrong men want a woman that like on the first date if they do put out on the first
02:14:40
Katiedate in your mind wouldn't you block them off to being eligible like you were saying earlier because I think that that might be wrong but I think a lot of women have that in our brains is that
02:14:52
Katiethey're not going to see us like so even if we were promiscuous before if this is the person we do want to be with then we're going to be like oh they're going to want me to be this way so then we change view that way and then it gets so
02:15:05
Katieconfused and there's so much misunderstanding and miscommunication between men and women I do see that I do see that so what you're basically saying is that you're kind of in in a rocking a hard place I want to you on the first date but I'm pretty sure you would respect me more if I wa so I'm going to
02:15:18
Jakewait and then they're like well why didn't you do it if you did it for them was like oh well I would have and then they're like oh so you would have been a I don't want to be with a and like wait wait wait I get I I I do get what you're saying but at the end of the day it comes back to the old adage you can't have your cake and eat it we
02:15:31
Brian Atlasput ourselves in certain situations but you can have your past and your future too yeah I mean I'm not really sure what that means I I actually have I do it does it does I do have a response to
02:15:41
Brian Atlasthat I mean I here here's what I think right if if that guy if you would otherwise how do I want to frame this let's say you end up waiting with a guy
02:15:53
Brian Atlasright okay you end up you you force a wait for four days right four dates it's not clear to me had you hooked up with him immediately that you would have not
02:16:05
Brian Atlasended up in a relationship anyways so I think whether you hook up with him on the first date or the third date quite honestly I don't think it's going to
02:16:14
Brian Atlashave really a major impact on whether he because if he if he's interested in having sex with you perhaps he wants there to be continuity and it could lead
02:16:25
Katieinto a relationship or it doesn't so it's good information to have and I just had to remember of something from before is that when we going around about how
02:16:35
Katielong you should wait um that I never got to it was that honestly for me in situations that there is that period of waiting to make sure that it's not just about sex it's not just about my body that they actually actually do like you
02:16:49
Katiebut to be truthful and honest and radically transparent for me anyway I do believe that you or not believe but the whole like waiting to marriage thing I think I don't understand that at
02:17:00
Katieall because I do think that you what if you don't like having sex with that person you just spent this whole time getting to know them and in a relationship and you might have love in that way but if you're trying to have a intimate relationship and then you all
02:17:13
Katieof a sudden love each other and try to have sex and it's like oh I don't like having sex with you or like we don't connect that way you know that is something how long have you been spiritual for my whole life I I mean in terms of like the like the pantheism and
02:17:27
Katiethe astrology I mean again I mean I feel I'm let's see maybe
02:17:37
Katie203 it started um have you ever and I'm not even taking the piss but have you ever tried to go to church yeah have you have
02:17:46
Katieyou ever tried to like Christianity or yeah I actually did not wear my rosary today cuz I didn't know if I wanted to have any religious contexts on here but I have a place with
02:17:58
KatieGod for sure yeah and it's it the Christian God you said you were Rosary yeah um I mean I was I was baptized I was BR
02:18:10
Jakebrought up Christian I think there's a hard thing is is there something in I feel like you're like yearning and longing for some sort of spirituality and I think people tend to put that into these sort of more ideas of astrology
02:18:21
Jakeand pantheism as I said but do you feel like maybe that yearning could be better placed in a church and a community do you know what I do in my regular life everything well I mean if you believe in astrology you don't
02:18:34
Brian Atlasbelieve in in the Christian God and you probably don't believe in Jesus true that's not true I can be an astrologer and believe in God at the same time here I do want to try to bring it back because I we have a lot to get through so we were going around the table on two
02:18:47
Brian Atlasthings I'll wrap up on the whole waiting for sex thing um we were going around the table one on how long do you think you should wait for sex I don't think everybody got an opportunity to answer that I don't know if we left off with
02:18:58
Brian Atlasyou or I think we went around did we go around on that did we go right did everyone get an opportunity to answer how long do you think you should wait
02:19:08
Kaylafor sex think I wanted to wait till marriage but that didn't happen so I don't know I just I waited till we were official okay if was is that your
02:19:18
Brian Atlascurrent boyfriend or like in the past boyfriend all of them all of them yeah okay um how long do you guys I think we left off with you maybe how how long do
02:19:28
Toiayou think you should wait for sex before having sex are you down first night second night second date third date probably being official if it's a
02:19:41
Brian Atlasrelationship being official unless you're traveling and you trying to culate experiences yes okay what about for you I don't really have like a time
02:19:52
Brian Atlasthing on it okay I don't I don't know how to answer that how about how about the last guy that you were intimate with how long did you wait with him let
02:20:04
Lilysee few weeks probably two weeks two weeks two weeks okay I feel like for me it would depend on if the chemistry was there and
02:20:16
Lilythe vibe of the night like if I want to have sex that night and we're talking and we want to have sex then let's have sex but if not it's not there I want to keep going on more dates before it just depends on when I feel comfortable with it can I just say something I think that
02:20:28
Jakethe sorry just before we continue I think that the duality of what you guys are talking about is the problem in terms of what we're we're seeing whereas you were kind of talking before about like turning over a new Leaf if you turned over a new leaf and you thought
02:20:40
Jakelike that you know this is the sort of person I am now and you hadn't the past hadn't been too crazy it wouldn't be too much of a problem but if you have the two thoughts simultaneously where I could have sex on the first night or I could make you wait that's where the
02:20:52
Jakeproblem is because they're like why am I in this basket and I'm not saying that I even want to be in in either basket but I think that that's the problem having that Duality but if you are at a different phase of your life and you know if you've if you're plugged into a
02:21:05
Lilychurch or something like that and and if you're actually taking it seriously then it can be anyways yeah yeah for your analogy I don't think I fit in with any of those two baskets that's what I do like I don't identify myself as I'm going to wait for this long or I'm going
02:21:16
Lilyto sleep on the first night I just go when I want to do yeah I don't like I I don't put like I don't fit into one basket but the baskets exist the baskets do exist that's the problem yes they do exist but for me personally I just don't
02:21:27
Brian Atlasidentify to either of them okay um how long do you think you should wait before having sex um if I'm in like pursuing a relationship like around four dates or so four dates
02:21:39
Arianaokay me personally probably like a month or two I want to make sure that I get to know them that there's an emotional connection and that I feel safe and comfortable with them did you ever have a one night stand uh no not personally
02:21:51
Vanikaokay what about you how long should you wait I would say I will wait a little bit like for months because I can't get connected with person like emotionally in like one or two days or like in three days so I
02:22:03
Brian Atlaswould prefer the time so a couple months unless I don't feel like emotionally connected with that person so you would wait longer if you don't feel connection I don't feel like yeah I will wait if I don't feel like it have
02:22:15
Brian Atlasyou ever had like a Friends with Benefits no buddy no one night
02:22:23
Brian Atlasstand no okay congratulations um so the other question is um have you ever made
02:22:31
Brian Atlasa guy wait but also have you also had a one night stand or had sex relatively
02:22:39
Kaylaquickly I think you answered yes Kayla no not that I can remember no what's the longest you've made a guy
02:22:49
Brian Atlaswait um here okay two let me reframe the question what's the shortest you've made a guy wait what's the longest you've made a guy wait go
02:23:00
Kaylaahead maybe the shortest was probably maybe like a week or so just because I knew like we were already like dating
02:23:10
Toiaand then he became my boyfriend and then before that like maybe like a month just because of distance
02:23:17
Toiaokay can I ask a quick question um does a situation differ for your your minds if like um we're like hooking up we're
02:23:29
Jakekissing we're doing like things but we're not actually having sex we're not doing the act of sex I would say it changes it a little bit changes because you can maybe feel the burning desire
02:23:40
Jakethere and maybe it's like that you want to draw out the tension a little bit but if you don't feel sexually attracted as a guy it's pretty easy to tell if a girl is not overly sexually attracted to you and if she's making you wait because she thinks you're a good relationship Prospect in other ways but if you can
02:23:53
Jaketell that she's really attracted can't keep her hands off you as kissing you whatever and then you draw out the tension that's a little bit different okay but if you can tell that she's not
02:24:02
Brian Atlasattracted to you it's pretty you can tell okay so the question is does it would it make like would I be more accepting of the situation if like she's
02:24:15
Brian Atlaswould I be more accepting of the situation if I knew she slept with 10 other guys immediately but then she wants a relationship with me but she's willing to make out with me is that the
02:24:24
Toiaquestion no like more like she went out um and like she met a guy at a party you know they were like I guess hooking up isn't the right word but like doing everything and then she was like okay actually like I'm not going to have sex
02:24:36
Jakewith you they like engaged in some intimacy with me or the this hypothetical guy the hypothetical guy how does that change your view oh that I miss the question yeah I thought you meant if you were on a date with a
02:24:49
Toiaperson and then they've done that in the past and then yeah okay re re reframe it one more time like let's say a girl you're getting into a relationship with a girl and she gets
02:25:01
Toiashe says hey uh by the way you know this is my body count or whatever but like the these these men in the past like I would go out you know I'd go to parties like you know we' do some stuff I'd
02:25:13
Jakesleep over but I like when the act of sex came like I'd be like no okay so she's saying that this is my body count and these are all of the guys who nearly got there yes that's probably a bigger
02:25:23
Jakered flag than the uh and the stuff before MH why well because when you're going to parties and you're sort of like doing everything you you just don't know the extent to it yeah that that to me that sort of draws a draws out a
02:25:36
Toiaperiphery that will make my that will make me ask a lot of questions okay so so it's like would you say it's like a bigger like you would judge a girl more
02:25:46
Toiaif she's going out partying like having sex having like full sex like one night stance versus like she's going out she's with her friend she meets a guy whatever it's like chill they're about to have a one night stand and then she's like
02:25:58
Jakeactually no like sex is really meaningful for me like I'm not going to fully have sex with you or is it like the same thing I don't know party girls are party girls to be honest it's kind of kind of the same thing to be to be
02:26:10
Jakefair cuz he probably sucked his dick and stuff so I mean yeah cuz that happens a lot say oh I'm not going to have sex but you know still no I'm genuinely curious still the next man's Willie continuing around the table
02:26:24
Lilywhat's the shortest amount of time you've made somebody wait what's the longest amount of time you've made somebody wait um I've had a one night stand before okay so I'd say within the night was probably the shortest and then
02:26:34
Shaythe longest was probably a couple weeks okay what about you um I've also had a one night stand and I think that the longest was around 6 months M
02:26:44
Arianaokay I haven't had a one night stand so I don't have like sure the lowest but 3 months cuz I've only been with my husband so oh okay what about you on the
02:26:54
Vanikashortest I would say one month with my ex and the longest you going to sound funny to you but like yeah my longest relationship I didn't have sex with that guy it's not like my purpose or something yeah that's funny for you were
02:27:07
Vanikawere you were you waiting till marriage or maybe but it didn't worked out how long you with him for 2 years and you weren't waiting till marriage not in was like what was the
02:27:18
Vanikareason you got to give man A Reason like it's not it's from the both Sid it's not just me I'm not was he asexual what he didn't want to have sex he never said it
02:27:29
Brian Atlashe was gay no he was not okay okay last last question on this guys oh we need to come we need to come back to you and sneak out what's the shortest amount of time you've waited
02:27:41
Katieand what's the longest amount of time you've waited I don't don't know the answer to the longest [Music]
02:27:52
Brian Atlastime I don't know the answer to that one and I mean I've had hookups on the first night so okay you maybe range like three three weeks four
02:28:05
Katieweeks no I've never like planned out like oh we're going to wait this amount of time so I've had friends that I'm like really close with like that were like
02:28:17
Katiereally close friends and like we're never like oh we like we want to be like that we want to sleep with each other and like and like one leads to another happens cuz you know but um well what about I
02:28:28
Brian Atlasmean the friends thing is a bit complicated because there's like a pre-existing uh acquaintance or relationship there so I'm I mean if I can narrow it down for you to make the
02:28:40
Brian Atlasquestion easier to answer what about if people like immediately the the context of the uh the relationship was romantic maybe you met
02:28:50
Katieon the dating app like in relationships I think my the longest I've waited is my most recent one with that two weeks because that's two weeks okay I've been the most okay growth from here's another
02:29:01
Brian Atlasquestion related to this so going around the table starting with you have you ever been had like a friends with benefits or there's like a casual thing
02:29:13
Brian Atlascuz some people like if you're not in an official committed it's been overtly communicated uh relationship uh there's room for you to be dating more than one person sleep
02:29:25
Brian Atlaspotentially sleeping with more than one person um or at least maybe there's one guy you're hooking up with he's just a Friends with Benefits he's uh you know buddy whatever it is but you're dating you're dating other people at the same time you might just be sleeping
02:29:37
Brian Atlaswith that one guy but you're dating other guys so my question is have you ever been sleeping with a guy and then also like going out on dates with other
02:29:46
Brian Atlaspeople or sleeping with a guy or a girl uh while also pursuing other potential Partners not necessarily sleeping with them but there's one solid person you're
02:29:57
Brian Atlasyou're hooking up with sleeping with whatever it's clearly not monogamous and dating other people starting with you go ahead yes okay it was a foreign
02:30:09
Kaylaexchange student so that's why we never like made it official um he was from Norway and when I she likes the the
02:30:18
NickScandinavian a what awesome shout out Norway they've got I guess o money could be grain land could be
02:30:27
Brian Atlaswor keep going never mind it's all good go ahead any other scenarios like that uh the other Norwegian kind of at the same
02:30:39
Kaylatime you were seeing them both at the same time yeah the two Norwegians yeah it was kind of like a triangle like obviously the other Norwegian was seeing
02:30:49
Jakeanother girl so so you were sleeping with svin and then FR was just he wasn't he wasn't getting any of it were there other guys
02:31:00
Kaylaalso um so that you were current I mean I was friends with guys but not sleeping around but at the so at the same time you were sleeping with two Norwegian
02:31:11
Kaylaguys yeah I think it they were a little bit sear like it was one for a while and then maybe one time it overlapped one overlap yeah okay so but and were you
02:31:23
Kaylaalso dating other guys too like going out on dates but you know maybe they didn't go all the way no but I was talking to my ex-boyfriend who were trying to work it out we were long
02:31:34
Kayladistance okay so we were trying to like fix it mend our relationship kind of were still together but at the same time I was with these Norwegian guys so you so you were with your ex-boyfriend or
02:31:46
Brian Atlaslike technically with him and getting the double Norwegian same time hey that's my whole pH for you okay oh whole we could talk about ho phases okay ho phas let's write that down um so
02:31:59
Brian Atlasokay you were you were sleeping with two guys and then also talking to your ex-boyfriend yeah okay mhm all right you know it
02:32:09
Nickhappens Temptation when in Norway uh what about you no
02:32:18
Brian Atlasokay what about you I mean yes I'm into open relationships call so okay okay um oh question for you uh uh since you're into open
02:32:31
Brian Atlasrelationships polyamory at any given time not currently because it sounded like you're just seeing one guy right now allegedly what is the most amount of
02:32:42
Brian Atlasguys that you've seen at any one given time three three three so you're sleeping with three guys at the same time not like all in the one well not like an orgy or anything like that but
02:32:53
Brian Atlaslike three one was Monday one was Wednesday one was Friday okay can I can I follow up on that um who while you've been doing
02:33:04
Jakethis polyamory is it um that would be non- monogamy at that right while while you've been doing the non monogamy has there been one particular guy who you've had like special feelings for has that
02:33:15
Katiehappened someone you particularly drawn to all so in the realm of open relationships and not just open relationship so that you can sleep with
02:33:25
Katieeverybody and my view on love and relationships is that loving one person is very limited and I have relationships with lots of people so I do consider myself like I said this person that's
02:33:37
Jakeacross Seas like I definitely consider them like my lover they have a very special place in my heart but I also have other very close friends is there one that you have when who
02:33:49
Jakecomes to mind when I think about someone who you have special feelings for yes he does yes that that guy everse in the
02:33:59
Jakepast in the past they like I mean I have I have special feelings for all of them and it's all different things if you had to say is there one who's particularly special at this moment yes
02:34:10
Katiewhy is he not enough I didn't say he wasn't that's not like enough but if you need other others because you can't expect one person to be everything for you that's not fair but don't you think that a part of a part of the the idea of
02:34:23
Jakehaving a relationship and one day having a family is making the sacrifice that one person is enough and you sort of you you battle through any any differences that
02:34:33
Katieyou have or any sort of shortcomings I do not have the um old traditional relationship beliefs no do you want to you said you wanted to have children
02:34:42
Katiebefore I would like to like continue what my genetics I would like to have an offspring to like care for I am like I work in child care so I'd love to have something to care of my own so would it
02:34:54
Katiebe like a like you free freeze the baby that type thing or what are we talking well if you really really want to know something weird I've always like fantasized that I want which obviously I
02:35:05
Katiecan't because you know but like Mary got impregnated like you're talking about going to church like I would for a long time I would just like wanted to like not have sex for a long time and then just somehow become pregnant IM
02:35:18
JakeImmaculate Conception yeah yeah yeah interesting so that's that's your your your dream is imaculate Con I want to have a baby that do you think do you think a guy like God would like really be sort of into a girl who's not a
02:35:30
Katievirgin H yeah because Mary right Mary was a principled woman right yeah not saying not said might probably won't happen but something like that yeah I guess the
02:35:44
Jakepoint I was saying it was like if you do want have children though don't you wor God doesn't pick the shiny penny by the way yeah that was don't don't you um worry though that if you're going to have children in like them seeing that
02:35:56
Jakesort of lifestyle or is it something that you'd want to like tamper down once you once you do have children cuz if you've got a baby daddy whole say that's why I'm not having kids right now I'm not I'm not but I'm saying like stage right if we get out of right now for a
02:36:09
Jakesecond and we think about the future and the implications of what we're doing right now in the future when you think about having children and when you think about the idea of carrying Someone's Child and then you guys having that child together being in the labor room
02:36:21
Jakeyou ride or die with each other do you think you'd want to bring someone else into the relationship after that I don't know I'm not there I don't I don't know isn't that something you think about there isn't that something
02:36:32
Katiethat you sort of maybe try about so many things that my brain goes so here let's continue with the question at hand so uh I believe we left
02:36:43
Brian Atlasoff was it what's the longest I think we did longest shortest have you ever dated y have you ever been hooking up with a guy casual with a guy while other while
02:36:55
Katiealso dating other guys I have not no I have not either okay no
02:37:05
Jakeokay okay all right what about you guys what's your ho phase yeah I went through a ho phase myself it was probably like honesty yeah teenage years and then into your early 20s I guess like I said
02:37:18
Jakebefore we live in a world and especially in the western world where we have absolutely no limitations to it when you're a young guy you're thinking about sleeping with as many girls as you possibly can and when you're a young lady you're thinking I'm empowered I'm having sex with all these guys and
02:37:31
Jakeeveryone around me is telling you telling me that it's great so anyways Brian wants to move on no it's all good it's all good deep size
02:37:42
Brian Atlasso um I really quick on the Hope phase anybody here how the hope is just show fans Jake had one she had one you had any hope when you when you're a hoe for a while you know when when you when you sleep with a lot of people over a space
02:37:54
Shayof time okay like after so long well I don't think a hope face necessarily means that you're sleeping around with a ton of people what do you think a hope phase means um I think just being a little bit less careless than you would
02:38:07
Shaybe in a relationship not like my hope phase I wasn't like sleeping with these people I was just I think my hope phe I was really young um and like you learn from those experiences I was seeing a lot of like older guys and like going on
02:38:20
Jakedates and just doing really irresponsible things it was kind of my rebellious phase mixed kind of things that you like you wouldn't really want to sort of necessarily share the details about with your with your future partner
02:38:31
Shaywell my current partner knows absolutely everything details um they are things that like I'm happy that I got through because I think the majority of people need to learn those things in their life I think there there are levels to HOAs
02:38:43
Jakebut I would say that generally when we speak speak about a ho phase we we speak about a few years like a space of time where you're sleeping with different guys and it's the kind of thing where you're like sleeping with guys that kind of no one knows about you're on dating
02:38:55
Kaylaapps and you're just I guess I haven't had a whole phase then not in that term Kayla you said you had a whole phas what can you tell us about the ho phase what what does a ho phase look like um I feel
02:39:07
Kaylalike it was a little bit dishonest and that kind of made it a ho
02:39:12
Brian Atlasphase for me just kind of exploring my taste in Scandinavian men yes but okay so I mean was it when you say HOAs was
02:39:24
Kaylait just those two dudes was it was there more was more preferred no but there was more to the HOAs than just the I mean I was the new girl and I was in a junior in high school and I mean a lot of guys
02:39:37
Kaylahit on me okay did they did they know each other yeah they did they went we went to rival schools though so one was with me at my school and the other one was at the Rival school did did you uh did they
02:39:50
Kaylaknow that what was happening did they know that there was that competition happen they found out um cuz the one at my school was like I was in love with him and then I met the other one through
02:40:01
Kaylahim and uh the other one I don't remember what happened but something like led us to kind of like stop for a while I think we got into an argument and so that's when I hang out with the
02:40:12
Kaylaother one more but we we would all hang out so wait you would the the multiple people you were sleeping with you would hang out in a group oh yeah and so you
02:40:24
Kaylahad a fought with they were the tunal regions in our entire city in the same age and same district and stuff so we hung out in groups not
02:40:34
Kaylajust us three what was the what was the age of your hes um cuz you're 24 is it I'm 24 24 yeah oh yeah um this was Junior SL senior year wait remind me you
02:40:46
Kaylahad a 4-year relationship correct yes when was that that was the begin or the the end of middle school so 8ighth grade like high
02:40:58
Kaylabasically through yeah High School relationship and I met these guys so your hope phase was from when to when 17 in between that relationship with my long-distance boyfriend so I moved from Texas to
02:41:10
KaylaMissouri and uh I had dated the other guy for 2 years and then when I went to this new school I was meeting all these new people but the other guy was doing the same like I found out he was like sleeping with some of my friends and
02:41:23
Kaylagoing off and so I just kind of retaliated in private with two Norwegians who I cannot
02:41:31
Brian Atlasregret at the same time was it was it a threesome no threesome okay so when the the whole phase was from when to when 17
02:41:41
Kaylato 19 what are we talking here yeah so I guess in college once I I got to college I had a boyfriend again for 4 years and
02:41:49
Brian Atlasthat's when I see the whole phase went away so from 17 to 19 18 19 yeah okay all right uh what's the what was the
02:41:58
Brian Atlasextent of the HOAs H like how many how big was the roster jeez did I ask what's the most
02:42:07
Kaylaamount of people that you were sleeping with at one time one time um so I dated dated for like a few months months um during when I met those two um
02:42:18
KaylaNorwegians sure uh or actually before it was the quarter back so I mean it was another one so it's maybe maybe four I'm going to guess four
02:42:30
Kaylaor five at the same time not at the same time like I definitely like stayed put with like a few for a while so maybe
02:42:38
Kaylalike wait so the HOAs was Five Guys um speaking to the m um you can pull your I'm just guessing and
02:42:48
Kaylathat's like the max for sure so I had my ex in Texas and then the two Norwegians and then I dated a guy for like a couple
02:42:56
Kaylaweeks so I would be four in the age of 17 okay and then so at the same time though you said
02:43:07
Kaylathree three okay three times I slept with somebody in high school no I mean like at the same time at the same time like talking like three
02:43:16
Brian AtlasSS no no no I mean like I'm so confused Roberto on Monday Eduardo on Wednesday I don't know why there have Latin names um on Friday there W there
02:43:30
Brian Atlaswas Bartholomew okay and then they would circulate you know um Bart was definitely your Friday guy no it really wasn't like that those other guys they get the weekdays but Bart he got the
02:43:42
KaylaFriday he got weekends yeah no it wasn't intertwined like that not really no but you said the two two Norwegians were at the same time
02:43:54
Kaylayeah I'm a little bit sort of so like I stuck with the Norwegian at my school and then it was the other guy like once or twice sure we're going to pull something up I'm going to do a couple chats here we have Davey Oh Davey pill
02:44:07
TTS Readerdonated $100 I wish one time a girl or an entire table will just admit that their entire life and dynamic is far superior to ours
02:44:16
TTS Readerand admit it can't even compromise on who's deserving of dignity looks go first yo Davey be chill bro what the
02:44:25
Brian Atlasuh yeah appreciate it man um their entire life and dynamic is far superior to ours Davey what do you mean by this how are
02:44:35
Brian Atlaswomen's uh entire lives and Dynamics far superior to ours because we need a little we need a little bit of clarification there um do you mean like just it's women have dating on easy mode
02:44:48
Brian Atlasis that what you're talking about um if you can clarify by the way just a point of uh I have lowered and I think I've changed this everywhere I've lowered the
02:44:56
Brian Atlasre and TTS triggers Reed is now uh 50 and up TTS is now uh 99 like 100 100 and up so uh if you guys want to get any uh
02:45:07
Brian Atlasttss or whatnot and feel free thank you guys appreciate it we have Ryan Holt here hey everyone I'm a member but longtime fan very happy to join can't wait to get involved hey Ryan thank you
02:45:19
Brian Atlasso much for your patronage man really appreciate it you're a Legend thank you for the uh Super Chat man appreciate it and if you want if you uh you sent this in a while ago uh if you do it through streamlabs we have a TTS
02:45:30
Brian Atlasfeature so welcome appreciate it man uh and then I think that's it on the chats we do have the thing we need to react to Nick it's related to our waiting thing
02:45:40
Brian Atlasso a woman posted on Reddit this and it got quite a bit of attention yo AB Che thank you very much for the gifted 20 memberships good to see you in the
02:45:52
Brian Atlaschat man thank you man really appreciate your uh support and patronage I hope you guys enjoy those memberships uh thank you man appreciate it all right so this is uh on Reddit um Kayla I want you to read this for us because you have a good
02:46:04
Kaylaspeaking diction read the title and then just read read what it says go ahead I'm unsure if I should tell my boyfriend this information I've recently gone official with a man I've been dating for
02:46:14
Kaylaa couple of months she's kind respectful and considerate he really I really think he could be the one popcorn you read the rest uh but
02:46:25
Toiasomething is eating at me should I keep reading y sure I wanted to build slowly with this man so we didn't become intimate until after going exclusive but
02:46:36
Toiabetween the first date and that point I did see an old friends with benefits a couple of times back then I didn't think anything of it as I wasn't as I wasn't exclusive but I underestimated how much I would care for my boyfriend and I feel
02:46:48
Kaylaalmost like I've cheated on him have I done something wrong do I need to tell him will he end things with me and then update Kayla go ahead there was mixed reactions here but my gut told
02:47:00
Kaylame I should tell my boyfriend he said sorry I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who does that then he blocked me on everything okay so she was can you pull
02:47:12
Brian Atlasit up back for just a second here so she went she went official with a guy she'd been dating for a couple months kind respectful considerate she thinks he could be the one uh but while she was
02:47:24
Brian Atlasbuilding slowly with this man and she didn't want to be intimate until after going exclusive during that entire period She was also having sex with a Friends with Benefits now mind you technically they
02:47:37
Brian Atlaswere not official uh however during that initial period while she was making him wait she was having sex with another guy he ultimately ended up breaking up with her
02:47:49
Brian Atlasas you guys read um what are your thoughts on that do you think fair fair game for the guy to have taken issue with that and even though she was technically you know they technically weren't
02:48:00
Toiaofficial if I was the guy I'd be hurt I'd 100% be hurt like that's so valid um I think in the dating stages
02:48:11
Toialike especially if you're you're just starting to get to know person you don't you guys don't know if you're going to pursue a long-term relationship yet you're getting to know a person like who's to say that you can't go and also date other people isn't that healthy
02:48:24
Toiaisn't that about figuring out what you want and what type of person you want doesn't mean he does it's valid for him to feel upset well I
02:48:33
Brian Atlasmean so my my personal standard on this is if I go on the first date with a girl and I'm interested in pursuing her all the other guys have to be a rap
02:48:45
Brian Atlasyou're not go if if you want to go on a second date with me you're not going on dates with other dudes you're defin you're certainly not sleeping with other dudes and quite frankly if I'm going on first date with you and I I mean I I'd hope a woman would be forthcoming with
02:48:57
Brian Atlasthis if I know that you're another dude and you're going on a date with me I'm not interested in you goodbye um so my my standard is if you want to go on a second date with me the other dude preferably there's no other
02:49:09
Kayladudes to begin with but the other dudes have to be a rap and did you communicate that boundary I was say definitely be a second date conversation if there were to be a second date or even like after the first date be like I like you so
02:49:21
Kaylamuch I want to be exclusive with you just make sure you're both on the same page because what if someone's polyamorous or what if someone's just
02:49:29
Kaylayou know wanting to have the experience of dates and you need to know sure yeah I don't necessarily think that
02:49:39
Shaylabels or like a conversation of exclusivity um like should change the way that you act so like personally if I like someone and we're going on dates or we're talking if I like them I'm not
02:49:51
Shaygoing to be with other people and I expect the same from them regardless of a conversation if we're exclusive or if we're boyfriend and girlfriend um I don't think that label changes anything if you wanted to sleep with someone else
02:50:04
Shayup until that exact moment that you decide that you're not okay with it I don't think that that is reflection of how ready you are to be in that relationship okay but do you guys I think it sounded like yes you said he
02:50:16
Brian Atlaswas justified for breaking up with her anybody else I think it's a fair fair okay yeah go ahead sure oh do you have more
02:50:27
Vanikayeah I think it's fair because they can you hear me now go ahead go ahead so it's a fair because I believe they are dating kind of they didn't made it official but they are dating like we