4'11 Girl REFUSES To Date 5'7 Guy?! | Dating Talk #83

Date: 2023-07-12

Duration: 6h 32m

Guests

Brian Atlas

UUnknown (PA model, DT83)>

AArmani (DT83)>

MMadison (DT94)>

MMatt (StaySafeTV)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS Reader(audience)

SPEAKER_02Grace(guest)

SPEAKER_03Matt (StaySafeTV)(guest)

SPEAKER_04Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_05Gia Chacon(guest)

SPEAKER_06Unknown (PA model)(guest)

SPEAKER_07Madison(guest)

SPEAKER_08Riaan(guest)

SPEAKER_09Kace(guest)

SPEAKER_10Armani(guest)

Key Moments

IntroGrace introduces herself: 29yo, social media/stand-up comedy/OnlyFans, LA. "I do be funny on TikTok."

“my name's Grace I'm 29 I do social media and I do comedy as well”

QuoteArmani (4'11") reveals she refused to date the 5'7" guy who introduced her to her 6'3" situationship partner. Brian shows meme on screen: "sorry I don't take guys below 6 feet" — it is Armani.

“obviously like I'm gonna upgrade friends no offense because that dude was like five seven”

RelationshipRiaan (5'2"): minimum height 5'5" because she wears platforms.

“I'd like to date someone who's at least five five I guess because I wear a lot of platforms”

RelationshipKace (4'11"): boyfriend is 5'7"; has dated men as short as 5'2". Mom taller than dad (5'3" vs 5'1").

“my boyfriend is five seven so he's a short King oh you're four eleven too but yeah”

Key MomentRiaan reveals she got legally married at 20 while on shrooms as a joke with a 1-month boyfriend. Separated Dec 30; filing for annulment. "We did it because we thought it would be funny."

“I am 21 years old I'm originally from the... I'm actually married too I forgot”

RelationshipMadison: ex was 5'6" with no issue; current boyfriend Frankie is ~5'11"; has a promise ring.

“my boyfriend's like 5 11. he sometimes he says six foot but the shortest they all do”

ControversyArmani insists height was only "a plus" and states minimum she would date is 5'7" despite being 4'11".

“the highest was a plus what would you do if what if I'm if I'm trying to date a guy”

QuoteArmani: even a 5'1" muscular wealthy man would be worse because "he's gonna look like a little Roblox dude."

“what if the guy is five foot one but he makes 300 Grand a year Andy's Jack he's muscular no that's even worse”

QuoteMatt to short guys in the audience: "any woman that's into you really loves you. It's a built-in default vetting process."

“short guys in the audience you are so lucky if you're five six you're five seven”

ControversyBrian reveals the meme "sorry I don't take guys below 6 feet" is actually Armani, pointing out irony of a 4'11" girl refusing a 5'7" man. Panel reacts.

“perfect that's actually you yeah um rip yeah he was five seven and you're four eleven right”

RelationshipPA model: minimum height 5'5" due to wearing platforms; does not care much about height otherwise.

“I'm gonna agree with her I'm 5'2 as well I think five five is like the shortest that I would consider dating”

Key MomentPA model reveals she ended her situationship that morning: ~3 months exclusive, no apps, no title. He wanted more time; she wanted commitment.

“I just said like you know I don't see it going anywhere if it's not gone anywhere this far”

ControversyBrian reads Riaan's pre-show: "most people should be non-monogamous." Riaan clarifies she meant exploring non-monogamy, reduce stigma. Gia pushes back strongly with statistics.

“most people should start considering non-monogamy because I didn't mean to cut you off”

Key MomentGia defends monogamy: cites American Family Study; argues for sacrificial relationships; states Christian belief in one man/one woman.

“Partners feel happier and more fulfilled when they're in monogamous relationships”

Key MomentGia describes humanitarian work: Jordan, Iraq (2022), Armenia (2020 Azerbaijan-Armenia war) providing crisis relief to persecuted Christians.

“I was in Iraq in um 2022 I brought humanitarian Aid to internally displaced Christians”

Key MomentMatt cites DNA research: 40% of men historically reproduced vs 80% of women; argues top-tier men access most women.

“if you look at two uh like my wife and I are both white we both got married for the first time”

QuoteMadison shares her mother passed away when she was 11, leaving just her father. Felt safer and more financially secure with two parents.

“unfortunately my mom passed away when I was 11 and specifically I didn't know that”

OtherBrian post-show: panel "a little frustrating" with some bad-faith arguments. Accepts partial responsibility for not having stronger prepared arguments.

“tonight's panel was a little frustrating I mean um I I think she was a little bit bad faith”

OtherBrian and Matt (both left-handed) jokingly demand reparations from right-handed guests for historical discrimination against left-handed people.

“I want all of you to go get your purses and you need to pay us me and Matt here”

Topics Discussed

Guest introductions & relationship status round

Guests introduce themselves: name, age, occupation, location. Then go around table on current relationship status. Notable: Riaan broke up with bf 1 day prior; PA model ended situationship that morning; Armani has never officially dated but had 2-year FWB situation; Gia is 7 months into a relationship; Madison has a promise ring from Frankie; Matt is married.

Height preferences in dating

Discussion of height requirements for men on dating apps. Armani (4'11") refuses men under 5'7", despite being 4'11"; episode meme shown on screen at ~32:07. Each guest shares height and minimum preference. Extended discussion on whether men lie about height on dating apps, short kings, and the 6'3" vs 5'7" comparison Armani made.

Traditional relationships, marriage and vetting partners

Brian and Matt discuss vetting partners carefully before marriage. Debate on whether marriage is worth it, the analogy of entering a business partnership. Gia argues relationships are sacrificial not transactional. Discussion of who should pay on first dates.

Social media and modern dating problems

Discussion of how social media and dating apps have changed dating dynamics. Women accused of chasing top 5-10% of men on apps. Brian introduces statistics on singleness.

Marriage statistics and divorce rates

Matt presents divorce rate statistics: national average ~45%, but first-time married couples ~35%, and for white first-time married couples only ~13%. Argues 50% divorce stat is inflated by serial divorcees. Debates "anti-marriage propaganda."

Monogamy vs. non-monogamy

Riaan advocates for people to consider non-monogamy and reduce stigma. Gia defends monogamy as statistically better and morally grounded in Christian values. Grace discusses having opened a previous LDR and it going badly. Matt and Brian cite statistics showing monogamous relationships lead to better outcomes for children, lower abuse rates, etc.

Single-parent households and family structure

Discussion of crime statistics and single-parent households. Matt says 1/4 of US children lack a father figure; correlates with crime across all categories. Guests share personal experiences: several grew up in divorced/separated households. Madison lost her mother at 11. Matt and his brother grew up without a dad after parents divorced when he was in 2nd grade.

Promiscuity statistics and hypergamy

Brian presents data: 63% of men ages 18-29 report being single vs 34% of women same age. Debate on whether women or men are more promiscuous on average. Discussion of Tinder/OK Cupid data showing top 10% of men get most female attention. Matt and Brian argue evolutionary basis for female selectivity (pregnancy risk). TTS donation about 40% of men historically reproducing vs 80% of women.

Abortion and reproductive rights

Discussion of abortion; Gia is pro-life (Christian). Debate about at what point life begins, rape exceptions, contraception. Gia discusses her work with persecuted Christians as background context for her values.

Red flags in dating

Panel goes around sharing red flags they have encountered or watch out for in dating. Topics include lateness, social media behavior, bald guys posting photos, etc.

Wage gap and gender equality

Brian presents wage gap statistics; argues it is an earnings gap not a wage gap, caused by choices in career field, hours worked, and risk tolerance, not sexism. Notes 93% of workplace fatalities are men. Riaan declines to debate without more research.

Feminism debate

Show of hands on who identifies as feminist. Riaan says yes; Gia gives nuanced defense of equal rights/dignity but critiques modern feminism. Grace and others unsure of definition. Brian argues feminism is women's advocacy, not equality; cites feminist opposition to shared custody bills and draft registration for women as examples.

Left-handedness reparations (comedic)

Brian and Matt (both left-handed) jokingly demand reparations from right-handed guests, citing historical discrimination against left-handed children. Comedic segment before outro.

Transcript

Page 4 of 7

Brian Atlasis that a cicada is that a cicada like are there it's Mothman um

Brian Atlas[Laughter] hallway lights holy [ __ ] that was like a what are those

Brian Atlasgiant bugs that invade like some more no no no no no no turn it off turn it off hello Nick okay um

Brian Atlaswhat are those okay whatever who cares about the bug okay uh so Salk was joking saying why do you think sex is fine after marriage I guess even if you do get married just never have sex ever just die a virgin I guess that's salk's

Brian Atlasposition thank you man appreciate it we have the real Mr meatball here hey thank you man what's the most attractive job a person can have that's a good question we should we should also say what's the most unattractive job too let's start

Gracewith you go ahead what's the most attractive job a person can have and most unattractive attractive to me is like someone who

Gracefollows their passion like I like people who like create stuff like whatever like whatever their art may be like I like people who make music or like film or

Gracesome sort of EX like creative expression a creative I guess if you want one word for it that would be my most unattractive job

Graceattractive job hmm

Graceyes I can think of so many um I would say like an Internet troll but they don't get paid

Graceum I think some of them do maybe yeah they do it for free yeah um I would say like a job that harmful like

Matt (StaySafeTV)like IRS agent maybe only fans Girl by the way um excuse me you're answering now do you pay your taxes yes do you how do you pay

Gracethem exactly I file them with my

Gracewith my fur oh okay um how do you pay your taxes I don't I never pay them you should probably say that off the right yeah yeah no I'm totally serious

Matt (StaySafeTV)well I remember there was that big movement what was this like probably four or five years ago it's called the abolish the IRS no it was called the thought audit and it was a bunch of trolls online going around reporting uh sex workers trying to get them to go to

Gracejail for not paying their taxes like a bunch of 4chanics when you especially when I was a dancer like is very difficult to file your taxes because it's like so all over the place single bills

Matt (StaySafeTV)from the yeah that's why it's so hard yeah you're stripping yes well you just don't claim those you just don't pay taxes on those that's Cash Cash yeah

Gracewell you guys got all figured out if you ever take home a bunch of single dollar bills you already know what you're gonna do so I love it most unattractive or excuse me most

Riaanattractive job a person can have um I think for

Riaanfor with education maybe like a teacher a professor I just um I'm a big fan of knowledge and for unattractive I'm not really sure I don't think I can think of one right now okay

Unknown (PA model)what about you um the most attractive job to me is something that serves other people um so like doctors or like therapists um

Unknown (PA model)yeah something like self you know sacrificing and then um on the opposite end unattractive would be something that takes from others and just serves yourself like those Indian

Unknown (PA model)guys you know those Indian call like scam guys who like get your grandma to like this game

Kaceum yeah

Kaceum I think the most attractive job someone could have is one that is like provide some stability not just because I know like for some jobs scheduling can be all over the place so

KaceI'm not talking like that type of stability but it's something that can support someone's life and um I guess just allow them to live a comfortable life and then unattractive job is I'd have to

Kacesay the same something where you're taking from others hurting others or yeah stuff like that I just think something that that gives you happiness like a lot of people like

Armanifollow their dreams like some type of job that gives you a sense like something you enjoy like you don't want to spend 40 hours a week doing something you hate sitting behind a computer and just crying you know something that

Armanibrings you Joy and you can enjoy and actually Prosper with um but like unattractive I'd say um I hate people that just

Armanidon't work sit on their butt scam scam anything unemployed unemployed there you have it just sit on the couch you saw people an attractive job is no job real

Gia Chaconthat's real I think the most attractive thing that someone can do um I agree with Grace it's when you're passionate about something but I also

Gia Chaconthink if you can figure out how to create a career or work in a line with your passion for the betterment of society and Humanity um so I I think that any

Gia Chaconuh profession or job in that category is very attractive it's it's encouraging and attractive to see people sacrificing their comfort for the betterment of other people or to

Gia Chacondefend the Dignity of other people whether that's in the United States or abroad and I have to agree that the most unattractive job is no job as long as you're doing something please do

Madisonsomething every person not just men I like like a a CEO a manager any man that can just walk around in like a

Madisonspiffy suit You Like a Man In Charge yeah I like men in charge you know he worked for her spot up there so you know he's hard working yeah and most

Madisonunattractive probably like a sex worker no offense but yeah something like that are there a lot there's not a lot of men who do sex work though like porn there

Madisonis a lot of men who do porn well not as met as many as women yeah but I didn't argue that fair enough technically less successful yeah I think probably the most uh the most

Matt (StaySafeTV)um respected job or the most desirable job for a woman in my opinion is probably stay home mother she's raising kids she's pumping kids out raising kids um and then least respected or at least

Armanidesired for me is like a sex worker or drug dealer something like that oh yeah drug dealers kind of turns I mean if you like it and it brings you Joy drug dealing drug

Gia Chacondealing I've got my preferences so many people die at the hands of drug dealers is there something you want to tell us I'm not a drug dealer I've never sold

TTS Readerdrugs I can assure you I've been offended donated 99 would any of you date a blue-collar worker we'll do a show of hands on this one show of hands would you date a blue collar worker yes like right now yes in

Matt (StaySafeTV)the future no no no my boyfriend's gonna be able to shoot you yeah Matt what's a blue collar worker someone that is not working behind a computer or someone that is working with their hands there are

Matt (StaySafeTV)Tradesman they're a plumber they're an electrician they're they're getting dirty they're getting physical they're not cooped up behind them in an office or something yep by the way we have more of those

Matt (StaySafeTV)people more young men should get into the trades the based blue color workers are actually what held Society together and uh there's like this lack of societal respect or value for for the blue collar tradies we need more of them totally they're the foundation Traders

Brian Atlasthey are the foundation and oftentimes they're going to pay more for you than your [ __ ] liberal arts college degree and you're not going to have student loan debt coming out yeah don't be a podcast host no it's like don't go do something valuable

Brian Atlasthank you man for the uh TTS man really appreciate it um you did you answer oh I think you answered the previous question I'll just go to

Brian Atlasum most attractive well I'll start with most unattractive job sex worker no offense to anybody here uh and uh

Brian Atlasmost attractive I like women in stem uh so like if they're

Brian Atlaslike something in stem is good like I like I like smart women so stem stem's pretty good there you go any

Gracespecific type of stem I know some sex workers that are also in stem one does not undo the other unfortunately it's okay I I'm not sure that they would be interested

Gracesex and what

Brian Atlaswoe is me how will I ever recover from all the sex workers that don't want to date me I will uh my confidence like flight attendants oh I have a I've got a [ __ ] laundry

Brian Atlaslist of like red flag professions so hair stylist anyone who's an equestrian no offense Priya who was on the show it's just perfect you're you're like

Brian Atlaswomen who are like really into horses like horse girls the the priority the priority uh as far as where you're going to fall on her priority list it's I said

Brian Atlasthis last show it's the horse or the horse is bothers money and then you did you have a bad experience with an equestrian no

Brian Atlasactually I've somehow men they've they've always been a little uh a little Priya was very very nice I'm this wasn't this isn't directed to Priya she was on our show last week she has some horses I guess um

Brian AtlasI've not had like any long-term relationships with any horse girls I might have been on a date with a horse horse girl maybe once or twice um I don't know just seem a little like

Brian Atlasit's hard to articulate but I don't know there's something a little off you know you know what I mean you know what I mean right you date women right

Matt (StaySafeTV)you ever seen a horse girl you know and it's a little something a little stuffy you know it's horse girls it's Harry Harry Potter girls Disney girls yes

Brian Atlaswith the princess complex okay hair stylist what don't you like about them because I've never thought about that

Brian Atlasone before it's just like a known thing like hair stylists are took the cat crazy they're crazy okay crazy you know all right they listen to other people complain all day what type

Matt (StaySafeTV)of guy do you think a young woman shouldn't date like what are the what are the male red flags in terms of profession yeah because I would I would say openly content creator you should not date a streamer or a YouTuber or something like that women avoid women should should avoid those or

TTS Readermen should avoid those women should avoid content creators maybe should men avoid female content creators oh yeah probably yeah probably on the window donated 100

Brian AtlasBrian why are girls who work in HR a red flag I mean HR is like the woke department for most like corporations and they need to like they're the ones that are going to be

Brian Atlaspushing like all the die stuff and like they're the ones that are going to be I'm trying to think of an example like they're the ones that are typically policing what you can and can't do and that's gonna like seep into a

Brian Atlasrelationship so they tend to be like extremely uptight very very like rule driven um I don't know people that people in HR I mean there's a [ __ ] meme about it

Brian Atlasin the office but like they're like the most intolerable [ __ ] people you can imagine um

Brian AtlasHR people police the mega Corp they police the corporate environment so you know no bueno yeah these are sort of the

Brian Atlasprofessional Cairns the absolute sticklers yeah it's the sticklers yeah HR I mean I mean the HR it's like uh they're gonna they're typically gonna

Brian Atlasbe super woke not always but and uh I'm not even like I'm not like overtly I'm not super political I consider myself kind of moderate but like you're probably going to lean

Brian Atlaspretty woke if you're in HR and then flight attendants travel nurses or pretty bad but yeah hey a lot of [ __ ] a lot of people don't like podcasts

Matt (StaySafeTV)so the reason I say that I think most people in the content creation business I think necessarily have to be kind of self-centered and narcissistic yeah yeah don't say it and so I think that

Brian Atlasgenerally those people are probably not making the best spouses um so but you you're a content creator so are you uh

TTS Readernow a federal security guard working on getting into cyber security or majoring in criminology and minoring in Psychology down to do border patrol VA

TTS Readerbenefits Virginia Home Loan and eight free years of college

Brian Atlasum thank you very much that's amazing thank you for your service yeah I think he wants to know given what he's just written would the ladies at this table date Ethan

GraceI mean I like I like a man in the service he's saying that's a nice name I don't see a reason why not to I think we would all want to date you

Brian Atlasall at once their DMS are in the description you can uh okay I think are we calling up no we have did we do this one

Brian AtlasRyan the eating Warrior that's so weird how after girls go through their wild phase they cozy up to God in the idea of marriage Haram anybody I think this might be directed

Gia Chaconat you no it is directed at me I'd love to respond I feel like I've been talking a lot um yeah I think that what you realize whenever you buy into the lie that these

Gia Chaconthings will make you happy like dating a lot drinking a lot partying a lot shopping a lot all of these you know things that are coming from the outside when you buy into the lie that those

Gia Chaconthings will make you happy you quickly realize that the more you try to do them the emptier that you feel and thankfully I realized that pretty quickly by the time I was 20 I already realized that I

Gia Chaconwas not having fun that I didn't feel fulfilled and honestly I looked in the mirror one day and I was like I don't think I like myself I know I don't like myself and I

Gia Chaconknow that there must be more for my life so I said a prayer I said God I know that you say that anyone who is in you is a new creation and I want that new

Gia Chaconcreation life and I gave my life over to the Lord and I can promise you with every fiber in my being that I never

Gia Chaconimagined how happy how fulfilled and just the purpose that I have out of life once I made that decision and honestly my relationships are better I feel like

Gia ChaconI'm a better person overall I make better decisions and all my decisions stem from my belief in God and my morals that are based in biblical principles

Matt (StaySafeTV)I can piggyback on that for a minute I think I think if you look back at human history there has never been an easier time to just become I guess I'll use the for the phrase

Matt (StaySafeTV)degenerate loser like there are so many um addicting poisons that are alluring they're tempting you to taste them in our society and this is drugs alcohol marijuana video game addiction uh

Matt (StaySafeTV)pornographic stuff who knows there are so many things that are tempting you this is food obesity is a big one for a lot of people there are so many things that are displaced in front of you they're so easy to access and they're beautiful they're tantalizing and

Matt (StaySafeTV)I I because those things are so prevalent and poisonous and addictive and tantalizing it's sort of hard to blame people for taking that bait and it's all bathed it's been intentionally placed in front of you it's hard to blame people

Matt (StaySafeTV)for taking that bait as long as they at some point in the future have a moment of introspection and realize wow what I'm doing here is wrong I need to stop engaging with these

Matt (StaySafeTV)things and then they caught they have a thought process they say okay I need to stop doing this this is bad for me it's bad for my loved ones whatever it is maybe it's even bad for society I need to become better than

Matt (StaySafeTV)this and start saying no to these hedonistic decadences or impulses I need to say no to these things and become a better person so as long this is my take like in this this even translates into

Matt (StaySafeTV)the body count thing to a certain degree as long as someone at some point has a moment of introspection and says I need to stop being this way then it's like okay we can have a conversation about

Matt (StaySafeTV)this right I really do believe in that in that Reformation process and I'm not even Christian but I think you can get there just looking at kind of how perverse our society is

Brian Atlashow many terrible things there are word okay let's uh we need to shout out everyone on Twitch Nick can you pull up the twitch tab please make sure it's in f11 and then we have a couple more questions

Brian Atlashere we have to get through a couple things guys please go over to twitch.tv slash whatever drop us a follow drop us a prime sub twitch.tv whatever mods if you can spam

Brian Atlasand then chat a bunch of times guys this is a great opportunity drop us follow drop us a prime sub the stream quality is typically better on on Twitch and uh yeah and uh we are actually going to start streaming here pretty soon

Brian AtlasMadison's going to be streaming via the whatever um account on Twitch uh doing her own little show there so that's in the works we're gonna get that going soon um I wanted to and and I this came up

Brian Atlaslike much earlier on in the podcast and we got interrupted by a I believe a TTS um so my question was we were talking about height

Brian Atlasand I asked is it wrong to lie as a guy maybe you've seen it for yourselves is it wrong to lie about your height on the

Brian Atlasdating app or otherwise and uh if I maybe show of hands I think most of you said yeah it's wrong men should not lie about their height

Graceyou I mean if you like round up a little I feel like it's fine more than like one or two inches okay so you're like if you so what you're saying is everything is wrong

Brian AtlasJuly in general but a little like a couple inches isn't gonna hurt anybody okay so I have a question kind of related to that so if if met it's wrong

Brian Atlasfor men to lie about their height do you also think that it's wrong for say women to lie about their just general physical appearance

Brian Atlaswell for example oftentimes well for example when it comes to men misrepresenting their height on a dating app you you'll often see and I'm not on any dating apps

Brian Atlasright now although I used to be I would say like more than 50 of profiles the women would use sometimes one sometimes two sometimes all their photos would be heavily filtered so they'd use like one of those face filter or face tune whatever it may

Brian Atlasbe which is lying about your physical appearance so should we ban physical or excuse me should we ban face filters on dating

Brian Atlasapps and not only that but then you also have Photoshop they might suck in their waist a little bit not not literally suck in their waist but they might use Photoshop to uh uh

Brian Atlaschange their waist uh and then you also had uh for example perhaps excessive use of makeup and uh I'm trying to think if there's any any

Gia Chaconother things that are done those are the main ones I reckon I think Society has created a culture

Gia Chaconwhere women are held to this very high standard of beauty of

Gia Chaconerroneous disagree okay compared to men but I'll go ahead and I'll I didn't say compared to one

Gia Chaconum and over sexualized standard and so I think actually okay so full disclosure I get BOTOX I'm not embarrassed to admit

Gia Chaconthat um it's the only thing that I've done but I'm all four facials and Botox and I'm a girls girl in every aspect when it comes to that um but it's interesting because I was

Gia Chacontalking to the nurse who does my injections and she was telling me that a woman came in for a consultation for a nose job and she said I like the way my

Gia Chaconnose looks in person I don't like the way it looks online so can we get a nose job to make my nose look better in pictures so we actually have this crisis of women wanting to look and people in

Gia Chacongeneral I don't I don't think it's just women I think it's men too caring so much about our online presence and comparing ourselves to this unrealistic standard of beauty where we're so

Gia Chaconunhappy with the way that we look and it's not just in person it's it's online people care more about now what they're how they're being presented online than in real life so I think that that's a

Gia Chaconcrisis and um I think that it's a tragedy that women and young girls like because before it was like even like maybe you're a little bit older when you started reading the

Gia Chaconmagazine spent now it's like our young girls like I have little sisters and it breaks my heart when they're comparing themselves to how they look online and it's breeded in us from the time that we're very young I agree with you I feel

Gracelike filters can be harmful to the way people are perceiving you if you're misrepresenting yourself and I feel like they can also be harmful to the people using them because if you're always seeing yourself a little bit better than

Graceyou naturally look it makes you like try and look like something that you in real life will never achieve so I feel like it distorts your image of yourself

Graceand other people's image of you so but also like wearing makeup and stuff like people want to express themselves in the ways that they do I don't think

Gia Chaconpeople are always wearing makeup and attempt to like deceive someone yeah I agree with that it's almost like a uniform like a guy when you get dressed up you're gonna like look I feel it together I feel like

Gracemakeup not that it's the standard but I feel like makeup is a part of looking put together and yeah and I feel like sometimes just exaggerated how much like

Gracesomeone can actually change from makeup like it takes a lot more than most people go through makeup pretty substantially changes or

Brian Atlascan change a woman's physical appearance and it's not how you actually enjoy but I to bring it back to my what's your argument though if it's if it's wrong

Brian Atlasfor men to misrepresent or lie about their height on a dating app then should it should it also be the case that women ought not to wear makeup in their photos that they present online men or more or

Brian Atlasmore more egregiously using filters and photoshopping your body and you know um why do you think that men feel like they need a lie about their height

Brian Atlaswhy why do I think men because height is an attraction trigger for women uh you hear a lot of women say I want to date a guy

Gia Chaconwho's tall yeah so they recognize that it's an attraction trigger so it's unrealistic standards it's this this crisis of unrealistic standards and Beauty in our society that comes not

Brian Atlasonly from the mainstream media but social media and what's being presented as desirable and attractive okay well I mean I think there's a biological reason why women are

Brian Atlasgenerally speaking more attracted to tall men and that comes down to the ability to protect men who are tall who are physically large hold on men who are tall are more

Brian Atlaslike are more capable of protecting a woman and being capable of protection is an attraction trigger in women right the biological reason why men are attracted to the Future

Graceokay I think what makeup does prominents generally make them look younger right which is appealing demand a lot of people when they wear makeup especially if you have

Armania lot do any of you guys over here have a input s well just on the art personally I don't like the the filters or like editing because you're just giving like a false reality to who's swiping right

Armanior looking at you because when they meet you in person they're gonna be like oh this is not the person I was wanting to meet this isn't going to go any farther this is you look nothing like what I thought you did like do you know what I mean

KaceI agree I agree um for me I say with the makeup thing I started using makeup when I was 10 and I think when I was that age the purpose

Kacewas to look older um because I felt like that was kind of the pressure I was like subjected to it like I wanted to look older and mature but now that I'm older I think it's more because like I said it makes me feel put

Kacetogether and it makes me feel good going about my day um but then also for the filters I agree with Armani that it's just like sad that we have to get

Kaceto that point of line and again like I think social media is so fabricated in so many ways and there's just like that risk that you have to take into the cap into account like oh this person could be looking different in person because

Matt (StaySafeTV)you are going to look different in person like No One's Gonna look the same in a photo I think this would be a curious question for the chat um I'm not on dating apps right now I I

Matt (StaySafeTV)think you said that you're not either would the men in the chat value a woman uploading at a minimum one photo where they've got no makeup it's like right out of the shower they said hey this is what I look like no makeup here's one photo and then there's maybe nine other

Matt (StaySafeTV)photos that have makeup on whether where they're done up but there's one where I was like hey this is me Perfectly Natural would that would men would men appreciate that I'm sure because I would imagine I'm sure they would I bet that would go a long way with mental dating apps

Brian Atlasyeah that's fine but I'm sure there I mean I've from my experience on dating apps haven't been on them in a minute but I don't know what I'll know when it was probably five six months ago

Brian Atlasum you know there's uh it's pretty actually rare to like see a dating profile where it's either no filter or no makeup

Brian Atlasat least one further super rare super rare so I think makeup you are effectively lying about your physical appearance in the same way that men lie about might lie about their height

Brian AtlasI just had a memory you guys can disagree with me by the way like hello okay good like if you why do you disagree with me I don't think it's a lie though

Gracebut it is it is you that's not what do you dye in your hair it's like you're like fixing your hair up even then say that's like haircuts and beers

Brian Atlasoutfits no not really like you getting a haircut kind of I mean one one hairstyle of the other may be deemed more physically attractive than the other certainly however makeup

Brian Atlasis is this artificial thing that you're putting on your face that uh can really make you know depending on the amount of makeup you're putting on depending on what type of makeup you're

Brian Atlasputting on can pretty substantially change your physical change how you look and I think we can all agree like we look hair is one thing but we really do

Brian Atlaslook at face as like a very primary thing that we are attracted to

KaceI will say though that is the purpose of makeup and you know given that makeup isn't only exclusive to women um men don't really straight straight men I would say even I mean most men do

Gracenot wear makeup I always thought the purpose of makeup was to accentuate your features not like completely change your appearance yeah like I'm not born with blue eyelids like it's yeah like I feel

Gracelike there are some cases like we've all seen videos online where it looks like a completely different person but I feel like you're like most women are not doing yeah

Graceyeah I feel like the what you're saying like it's not actually as common as you think like you can't do that much with makeup I actually you know what hold on I have I mean I'm sure you can bring up

Gia Chaconlike an example about your everyday girl like there's people that do know how to transform their face with makeup I mean I know that I've seen them on Tick Tock like or the people that make themselves

Gracelook like Michael Jackson yeah you know like they do all of that with makeup but the reality is is most women are not doing that every day person like that's gonna look crazy if you get close to the person like that doesn't look good

Graceeither it's gonna look like Dusty and Cakey and like it's not gonna it doesn't have like the magical like powers to make your face look like a completely different natural face up close maybe in

Armania camera or an animal with certain lighting but in the world in real life you're like oh this is just a lady with a bunch of paint on her face here this is what I have I actually have uh so on my Facebook

Brian Atlasuh Facebook has something called Facebook dating uh and it's like built in it's automatically tied into your uh if you have the Facebook app so I'm just gonna pull it up I don't use it but I'm just gonna I'll if I'm hoping you guys

Brian Atlascan take my word for it I'm just gonna look at the first image that these women show I'll just swipe I'll swipe yes or no on every single person and I'll tell you if they have a filter if they have makeup well I'm gonna assume they almost all of them have makeup so I'll tell you

Brian Atlasif they have a filter which I think is more egregious than wearing makeup so uh yes she has a filter filter filter

Brian AtlasI'm not I'm not going to show it to the I'm not going to show how am I gonna just take just just assume I'm I'm acting in good faith and I'll say yes or no if there's there's a filter not no filter filter

Brian Atlaspossibly filter would you filter what the [ __ ] what's that would you post a photo on your social my beard might be what do you honor your beard

Unknown (PA model)what's up wait but bald why would I post a photo when we like a haircut or facial hair is similar to like makeup it's not it kind of is because if we have a kid with you

Brian Atlaswe need to know what your face looks like without the beard yeah so if you want that if you want that for for 32 years of my life I did not have a

Brian Atlasbeard you can go on my Instagram there's plenty of photos with of me without a beard like clean shave you can find photos of me regardless of any of those sorry there's so many guys on dating

Madisonapps though that are just like editing pictures of like their bodies if they like go to the gym

GraceI have a little stuff to try and like

Brian Atlasput a lot of insecurities about okay but in any case beard is something that's natural makeup makeup does not uh magically Sprout from your guys's faces that's something yeah so I think that we

Brian Atlasdon't have something covering half our face do you know what I mean well and one thing I would also point out is when it comes to assessing physical attractiveness and this is getting like

Brian Atlasvery analytical I would actually argue that the top 50 of one's face is like the the thing that's more likely going

Brian Atlasto be like Shifting the someone's attractiveness like a lot of attractiveness has

Brian Atlaslike yeah it's from here up so yes I I get where you guys are going oh you could hide a weak chin or a weak jawline if you have a beard but like I think there's there's makeup covers up way

Matt (StaySafeTV)more than that what about hiding a bald head with a hat is there a red flag is it a red flag for you ladies if you're on a dating app and every photo of the man is wearing that's actually that's that red flag just close enough to a person eventually

Gia Chaconall these things are gonna come to light that's what I was gonna say actually yeah yeah eventually the the filters and the makeup and the hats and the beards are gonna come off yeah and what you're

Gia Chaconleft with is who you actually are and what makes up your composition as a human being and your character and if you don't have that right it doesn't matter how many inches you lie on how

Gia Chacontall you are or how much filter or makeup you put on it's who you are and if you could just focus on being the best person and having the best character that you possibly can then

Gracethat's gonna win you the day and the relationship someone lies about a couple I'm not gonna say like you're calling it like heinous and like egregious and stuff like it's like not that serious to me if people want to feel a little bit

Gracebetter for a second of their life you know well okay obviously you're gonna get to know them and see yeah no matter what like that's gonna come to come to light like you're gonna notice one day baby you're gonna go on a roller coaster

Brian Atlasand he can't go on you know you're gonna wash your face okay so look there's there's a whole bunch of things here so

Brian Atlasum you said that well ultimately it comes down to who you are as a person I mean we can all live in magical Disney Disney fairy tale lands but at the end of the day for both men and women we need to be with someone who are

Brian Atlasphysically most people need to be with someone they're physically attracted to if if it was the case that both men and women cared so deeply about what people really are like and who they are as a person

Brian Atlashold on let me finish women would not wear makeup men would not give a [ __ ] about their height they wouldn't hide their bald spots we both men and women care about physical

Gia Chaconattraction actually I I said earlier yeah I don't remember what the topic was but I said that one of the important aspects is physical attraction so I'm not arguing that at all but physical

Brian Atlasattraction is not enough it's not going to make you a good partner or a spouse that's that's where it starts

Gia Chaconbut it's also like chemical too like initial attraction it can start there absolutely and most of the time for most people it does but I'm saying that it's not enough it's not enough people find

Graceattractive it's different too like you're seeing like one standard of attractive like not everyone views things okay but just to address the majority I guess I mean just to address

Brian Atlasthat really quick if you line up a hundred people 100 men 100 women and they're all kind of like raiding the people there might be some variation but like I'd say there people could come to

Brian Atlasa consensus of okay here's like the 10 most attractive people here's the most ten percent of Attractive people I don't know what how things are in Kazakhstan I don't know but Matt raised

Brian Atlasa very good point and I think this is actually a better comparison than when I made is well what about men who are wearing a hat they're hiding their bald spot I actually think that's a much

Brian Atlasbetter comparison to women wearing makeup

Grace[Laughter] [Music]

Brian Atlaswho here would be uh you know you you match with a guy and he's always wearing a hat and it didn't occur to you that maybe he's like hiding though that he's bald or balding or whatever how many of you would kind of feel like a little bit

Brian Atlaslike uh like he hid something from you or like maybe you're less physically attractive when you find out that he's balding well how am I gonna let me that's not like the first time

Gracebut let's not let's not kid let's not kid women are attracted to men who have a full head of hair if you lose your hair it means you have more testosterone okay so true that is so true

Brian Atlasbut most of you okay when he gave this example most of you recoiled to some degree and were like oh like yeah that's kind of messed up if a guy wears a hat to hide the bald spot that's how we feel about women who wear makeup

Gia Chacon[Laughter]

Gia Chaconand the other thing is is we are more than our physical appearances this is true for men and women we are more than just the way that we look and I would argue that it's I mean not even I would

Gia Chaconargue I believe that who we are as a person actually makes us more attractive or less attractive and you can you know put makeup that is totally true

Matt (StaySafeTV)like but I think I think um I'm not gonna tiptoe around this like for me you need to look a certain way physically you need to meet my uh criteria that I'm looking for and then

Gia Chaconit's like okay then do you have a nice personality that's fine is important I've never said that it wasn't I'm just saying that it's not enough because men and women are more than the way that they look just the prettier you are or

Gracethe more handsome the taller you are the more hair that you have is not gonna translate into you being a better partner and I think people can become less or more attractive over time based on like characteristics they demonstrate

Gia Chaconthat aren't just they prove that actually in a study I don't I can't remember which one you could probably Google it but they prove that people become more attracted to their partner over time not less attractive or even just like being around someone that you

Gracemight not like find attractive initially and then like the more that you're around them you start to see things about them that become attractive

Gracebecause sometimes you meet someone you're like oh they look so nice I feel like that might even be like more common with like how women view attractiveness in relationships I feel like they grow

Brian Atlasyeah you mentioned earlier uh something about beauty standards and I think you spoke more so from the female side of that um I might maybe this is a hard take for

Brian Atlassome of you um I actually think so let's say can we all agree that there are male beauty standards and female beauty standards perhaps I should say hands I don't know if beauty is the right word

Gracefor the rest of the show can we just have her do her comedy yeah don't worry I find them well-being

Brian Atlasokay um so there's male beauty standards there's female beauty standards I actually think it's harder for a man to reach the ideal than it is

Brian Atlasfor a woman ideally there's more it's harder for men to reach this supposed Beauty standard than it is for women to reach these supposed Beauty standard what standards are you specifically referring to for

Brian Atlasmen standards well okay let's let's stray a little bit away from the face and let's go to body I would argue that

Brian Atlasif you let's let's take an 18 year old woman and an 18 year old man it's going to be very easy and you would say I would say that so long as she's not like either side

Brian Atlasisn't overweight the untrained female body is more likely to be deemed attractive than the untrained male body so the average female body is more likely to be deemed

Madisonas attractive than the average male body I get what you're saying like girls are like they wouldn't like things that guys like can't really change well okay for

Brian Atlasexample like I would say that the female Beauty standard is much more obtainable for women than the ideal uh male Beauty standard is for men you're talking

Brian Atlasspecifically about bodies right I'm yes specifically on body now so like Fitness ABS that kind of stuff can you get specific well okay so obviously there's a different standard between men and women

Brian AtlasI would say generally speaking I would say women are attracted to men who have at least some degree of muscular development however I don't think we can say the same about men's men's view of female attractiveness when it comes to

Brian Atlastheir bodies I think the degree of muscularity on a woman is not particularly like a really huge they're different standards but I they're

Gia Chaconthey make it less attainable for women to achieve these standards I mean look at the Victoria's Secret models I mean when the Angels came out everyone was like oh my gosh if I could just have that body and there was actually an

Gia Chaconinterview by one of the Angels where she said that there was so much editing and retouching to even her size zero I mean she's not just skinny She's Fit there was so much editing and retouching to

Gia Chaconher body that when she saw her ad at Victoria's Secret her she asked her mom to take a picture next to her ad and her mom goes wait is that you she didn't

Gia Chaconeven recognize her own daughter so it's not just about I mean it's it's I I don't I don't think that's true what you're saying if there's a statistic can we present a statistic on that I would

Gia Chaconbe interested in my eyes I just need my eyes I don't need some some well I mean for example I need the proof because statistics I mean if we do a survey of like of how women feel like is it harder

Brian Atlasfor women to achieve these unrealistic beauty standards because there's so much editing and so much retouching I've written down some notes so I'll address what you're saying Okay so let's say the

Brian Atlasfemale Beauty standard is flat stomach although you need not have abs maybe a little bit of muscle tone but probably not really necessary and a healthy BMI that's enough for you to be have a

Gracephysically attractive body I feel like you know woman's mind like that is not

Graceyour skin your eyelashes your eye color like have you not been listening to the conversation I'm talking specifically about body right now I thought you were just talking about female and male attractiveness

Brian AtlasI'm talking about body we're talking about body okay continue what's the next part of what you're saying so in order to achieve that flat stomach maybe a little bit of muscle tone healthy BMI

Brian Atlasrange you just need to go to the gym honestly you need not even go to the gym this is achievable purely through diet so but if you really wanted to like

Brian Atlassomewhat maximize your beauty go the gym three days a week eat like 200 calorie def uh below maintenance and you'll be

Brian Atlasthere in a year if you're starting from average the male Beauty standard that's rarely challenged by mainstream media is literally unobtainable without two if

Brian Atlasnot three of the following so Elite genetics steroids and five plus years of treating the gym as a part-time or second job I completely disagree because a lot of

Armanithe beauty centers nowadays like especially coming from me I've been influenced by media since I was younger than than most of you guys and always it's this Instagram model with a big

Armanibutt big boobs little waist do you know what I mean even then working on you say go to the gym you know women don't gain muscle as fast as men

Gia Chacondon't men or not also burns calories sitting than a woman does the healthy the healthy like percentage of body fat for a woman is significantly higher than

Brian Atlasfor a man I think a man it's like what is it like three percent and something okay and it's over 10 for women okay we can talk about body fat I'm actually prepared to also say that in terms of what men will find physically attractive

Brian Atlaswhen it comes to a woman's body there's actually a lard you can fall within a larger body fat percentage range than can a man

Brian Atlasso so uh like for example but thick yeah that's that's like a certain body fat percentage I mean we can we can debate what thick means but there you can fall

Brian Atlaswithin a much wider range of when you when it comes to your body fat percentage as a woman and still be deemed physically attractive whereas for men to be deemed physically attractive

Brian Atlasor to have an attractive body that body fat percentage range that you must fall into dad bod hashtag dad bod that's cool

Matt (StaySafeTV)I think I think I agree with you over the last like 20 or 30 years Brian but if you go back to like the 1950s have you ever seen the old videos of like the Kennedy High School athletic programs in the 1950s it's like a program that certain high schools had for young men

Matt (StaySafeTV)and other high schools didn't and so you have like these old black and white videos of young men and they're hanging on jungle gyms like 16 17 year old boys in high school no that's kind of an exception though to the like well it's like within a year these are 16 year old boys they're like they're like shredded

Matt (StaySafeTV)they're like diced and so I guess the question is like how much muscle does a man need to have to be attractive to women because I think those those like fit young men is are women into that or are they into more of like a bodybuilder

Matt (StaySafeTV)archetype because I'm I'm bigger than those guys like I I I don't know what women what muscle mass or body fat women holistically prefer I think that men physically have a harder time in this

Matt (StaySafeTV)environment where there's like slop food in our society and everyone's lazy but like if you go back just a couple Generations like it might might not be true it might not hold true I'm not sure well aren't you proving my point you're

Brian Atlassaying it's now harder for men to achieve that that sort of physique yeah so I'm agreeing with you in our like current Paradigm right okay sure I mean the one thing I would also point to when it comes to Media portrayals let's take

Brian AtlasLeading Men for example let's let's look at superhero movies so you take like Black Widow Scarlett Johansson

Brian Atlasthat's achievable like by a lot of huge swaths of women her physique yes

Armanishe literally went through so much training you guys are full of [ __ ] hold on read anything horrible characters go through they literally change their lives and it is so unattainable especially they're

Brian Atlassaying you have a regular job you go to school you do all these other things we can pull up pictures comparing the leading women and superhero movies we

Brian Atlascan look at their physiques and compare it to the physiques of men all the men barring maybe one or two who are just genetically gifted all the men in the

Gia Chaconsuperhero movies are on steroids okay so what you're one point about is muscle mass but that is not what that is not how women are viewed through the lens of

Gia Chaconthe attractiveness yeah it's not about muscle mass that's but but that's not well for example this is great this is actually like let's look at Kim

Gia ChaconKardashian Kim Kim Kardashian brought in like the BBL thick era and I mean I would say that she's like one of the number one women her and Kylie Jenner

Gia Chaconthat are generation looks to as the standard of beauty so in the 90s that was not the case so before it was like who were the supermodels of the 90s maybe like Carly

Gia ChaconKloss was one of them and they were double zeros I mean it was like impossible like to be that thin most women are never going to be a double zero now we have Kim Kardashian with

Gia Chaconobviously I mean this beautiful hourglass figure I'm sure she has plastic surgery which I'm not hating on plastic surgery so please don't take that as my argument but I'm just saying she altered her body and now Kim Kardashian is the standard so everybody

Gia Chaconis following that standard and it's like okay now we have skinny is in now so it's like these completely unrealistic standards whether it's to be thin or to be overly curvy that are not natural for

Brian Atlaswomen ever-changing they're Ever Changing look there are certain there are women who are more curvy than others some some naturally so obviously things

Brian Atlaslike you know women don't have really any control roll over for example their breast size unless they get plastic surgery I'll give you that however when we're speaking about things that are

Brian Atlaswithin people's control for example example we are able to control our weight now how how that ultimately ends up looking weight can be uh fat can be

Brian Atlasdistributed differently between different people but ultimately you can be within like a healthy uh you can be in a healthy body fat percentage whether you're a man or you're a woman

Brian Atlasso you you but you did kind of ignore my point about like let's look at leading Leading Men and leading women in like superhero films

Brian Atlasif you look at like the top people in Media to have an ideal physique as a man like look at the superhero movies they're all

Gia Chaconon steroids Scarlett Johansson has plastic surgery on her body yes yeah yeah absolutely so it's I mean I what evidence do you have

Brian Atlasfor that Google it she has she has a breast job or probably oh definitely probably don't think she might maybe maybe her face but I'm not convinced her body is and you know what I wrote I think she

Gia Chaconactually had breast reduction surgery yeah okay so there it is as well so salt them down either way it's plastic surgery and besides that I mean the plastic surgery that is like public information

Gia Chaconas well that's what I was going to say a lot of these women are getting I mean so many things done like for example let's go to the Kylie Jenner thing where she denied having plastic surgery she had this Total Transformation and again no

Graceshamed plastic surgery but it's like if you're going to do it please take ownership of it so we can stop also believing that these are natural yeah I think you would have like people would have a better understanding of like what

Gracelike plastic surgery like how it actually looks on people like in real life in real yeah yep also like some plastic surgery isn't as like I feel like a lot of times when

Gracepeople think plastic surgery they think like extreme like Kylie who's probably had like seven or eight procedures to like tomorrow or that look like sometimes celebrities have plastic surgery that's very subtle and people

TTS Readermight not notice like to be that way yeah oh hold on bend the offender donated 99 Eddie Hall is a strong man who looks like he has a dad bod of sorts but his

Matt (StaySafeTV)most of his weight is pure muscle yeah true I don't okay I don't think most people would consider him like like a beauty icon for men though or an icon of handsome mascularity here let's let's do this um Scarlett Johansson she's she's in

Brian Atlassuperhero match what is she black widow is that who she is yeah yeah uh Nick can I have you pull up a Google tab search let's do Scarlett Johansson don't get excited guys Scarlett

Gia ChaconJohansson bikini so we can actually see her body also the way she's presented in that movie is also edited just like the men are edited CGI and everything CGI yeah a lot of things let us know when you have it

Brian Atlasyeah they do makeup trailers just to make all right scroll down scroll down

Brian Atlasuh the the wait wait wait hold on the far left top in the blue bikini top yep um that physique is achievable by like

Gia Chacon90 of women okay so but you're talking about her as Black Widow yeah and also I think that working out in the gym is achievable for men as well but I do see what you're saying that there is an

Gia Chaconunrealistic standard for both men and women and I think that we have just created this toxic toxic culture where

Gia Chaconwe're constantly idolizing these people and holding especially women but yes also men to unrealistic standards and it makes it not only harder for us to be

Gia Chaconsatisfied in who we are but now we're living in an era because of social media where we're constantly comparing our partners to what we see online and it's a fake representation of what is

Brian Atlashappening in real life I mean obviously it's AI world I mean everyone's in AI worlds with filters and editing okay well let's I want to try to finally make my point on this so can you all also

Brian Atlaspull up um who's the girl with the whip [ __ ] what's her name uh oh Gal Gadot Gal Gadot let's look at her then then we'll look at who's the guy from in Thor from what in Thor

Brian Atlasyeah Chris Hemsworth Chris Hemsworth well look at him and then we can look at Wolverine we can look at uh who plays Captain America we can look at all the superheroes we can see their degree of physique uh go ahead

Matt (StaySafeTV)so just just to like while we wait just to recap your point is on a scale of physical attraction it is harder for a man to be a 10 out of 10 than a woman to be a 10 out of 10. that's like generally the point it's harder for a man to

Brian Atlasachieve I think it's it's harder for men to achieve the ideal male physique than it is for women too no no let's not even say ideal let's just say attractive

Brian Atlasphysique it's harder for men to get an attractive physique when it comes to body than it is for women to achieve an attractive physique and also I would say that there in addition to the body fat range that I

Brian Atlasmentioned uh I think that there are there's much more different uh body types that men will find attractive than women will find attractive you have

Brian Atlaseverything from like stick thin to fit all the way to like thick whatever you know all the there's like a much wider range of different body types that men will find attractive versus what

Gia Chaconthis is not a good example so she's totally ripped pull up the one Gal Gadot bikini Mission oh look at her as wonderful Wonder Woman pull up that

Gia Chaconvideo if we want to talk about that wow [Music] yes she was

Brian Atlasbut harder to achieve then hold on okay um I'm trying to actually could you X out of that one scroll back up to the top okay the one

Brian Atlaswith her in the Hat scroll down scroll down scroll down there's the one in the Hat and then the one next to it okay scroll down the other one actually

Brian Atlasit's all the way to the left all the way to the left the one all the way to the left from you from the cursor yeah yeah this is like if she's extremely skinny

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