4'11 Girl REFUSES To Date 5'7 Guy?! | Dating Talk #83

Date: 2023-07-12

Duration: 6h 32m

Guests

Brian Atlas

UUnknown (PA model, DT83)>

AArmani (DT83)>

MMadison (DT94)>

MMatt (StaySafeTV)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS Reader(audience)

SPEAKER_02Grace(guest)

SPEAKER_03Matt (StaySafeTV)(guest)

SPEAKER_04Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_05Gia Chacon(guest)

SPEAKER_06Unknown (PA model)(guest)

SPEAKER_07Madison(guest)

SPEAKER_08Riaan(guest)

SPEAKER_09Kace(guest)

SPEAKER_10Armani(guest)

Key Moments

IntroGrace introduces herself: 29yo, social media/stand-up comedy/OnlyFans, LA. "I do be funny on TikTok."

“my name's Grace I'm 29 I do social media and I do comedy as well”

QuoteArmani (4'11") reveals she refused to date the 5'7" guy who introduced her to her 6'3" situationship partner. Brian shows meme on screen: "sorry I don't take guys below 6 feet" — it is Armani.

“obviously like I'm gonna upgrade friends no offense because that dude was like five seven”

RelationshipRiaan (5'2"): minimum height 5'5" because she wears platforms.

“I'd like to date someone who's at least five five I guess because I wear a lot of platforms”

RelationshipKace (4'11"): boyfriend is 5'7"; has dated men as short as 5'2". Mom taller than dad (5'3" vs 5'1").

“my boyfriend is five seven so he's a short King oh you're four eleven too but yeah”

Key MomentRiaan reveals she got legally married at 20 while on shrooms as a joke with a 1-month boyfriend. Separated Dec 30; filing for annulment. "We did it because we thought it would be funny."

“I am 21 years old I'm originally from the... I'm actually married too I forgot”

RelationshipMadison: ex was 5'6" with no issue; current boyfriend Frankie is ~5'11"; has a promise ring.

“my boyfriend's like 5 11. he sometimes he says six foot but the shortest they all do”

ControversyArmani insists height was only "a plus" and states minimum she would date is 5'7" despite being 4'11".

“the highest was a plus what would you do if what if I'm if I'm trying to date a guy”

QuoteArmani: even a 5'1" muscular wealthy man would be worse because "he's gonna look like a little Roblox dude."

“what if the guy is five foot one but he makes 300 Grand a year Andy's Jack he's muscular no that's even worse”

QuoteMatt to short guys in the audience: "any woman that's into you really loves you. It's a built-in default vetting process."

“short guys in the audience you are so lucky if you're five six you're five seven”

ControversyBrian reveals the meme "sorry I don't take guys below 6 feet" is actually Armani, pointing out irony of a 4'11" girl refusing a 5'7" man. Panel reacts.

“perfect that's actually you yeah um rip yeah he was five seven and you're four eleven right”

RelationshipPA model: minimum height 5'5" due to wearing platforms; does not care much about height otherwise.

“I'm gonna agree with her I'm 5'2 as well I think five five is like the shortest that I would consider dating”

Key MomentPA model reveals she ended her situationship that morning: ~3 months exclusive, no apps, no title. He wanted more time; she wanted commitment.

“I just said like you know I don't see it going anywhere if it's not gone anywhere this far”

ControversyBrian reads Riaan's pre-show: "most people should be non-monogamous." Riaan clarifies she meant exploring non-monogamy, reduce stigma. Gia pushes back strongly with statistics.

“most people should start considering non-monogamy because I didn't mean to cut you off”

Key MomentGia defends monogamy: cites American Family Study; argues for sacrificial relationships; states Christian belief in one man/one woman.

“Partners feel happier and more fulfilled when they're in monogamous relationships”

Key MomentGia describes humanitarian work: Jordan, Iraq (2022), Armenia (2020 Azerbaijan-Armenia war) providing crisis relief to persecuted Christians.

“I was in Iraq in um 2022 I brought humanitarian Aid to internally displaced Christians”

Key MomentMatt cites DNA research: 40% of men historically reproduced vs 80% of women; argues top-tier men access most women.

“if you look at two uh like my wife and I are both white we both got married for the first time”

QuoteMadison shares her mother passed away when she was 11, leaving just her father. Felt safer and more financially secure with two parents.

“unfortunately my mom passed away when I was 11 and specifically I didn't know that”

OtherBrian post-show: panel "a little frustrating" with some bad-faith arguments. Accepts partial responsibility for not having stronger prepared arguments.

“tonight's panel was a little frustrating I mean um I I think she was a little bit bad faith”

OtherBrian and Matt (both left-handed) jokingly demand reparations from right-handed guests for historical discrimination against left-handed people.

“I want all of you to go get your purses and you need to pay us me and Matt here”

Topics Discussed

Guest introductions & relationship status round

Guests introduce themselves: name, age, occupation, location. Then go around table on current relationship status. Notable: Riaan broke up with bf 1 day prior; PA model ended situationship that morning; Armani has never officially dated but had 2-year FWB situation; Gia is 7 months into a relationship; Madison has a promise ring from Frankie; Matt is married.

Height preferences in dating

Discussion of height requirements for men on dating apps. Armani (4'11") refuses men under 5'7", despite being 4'11"; episode meme shown on screen at ~32:07. Each guest shares height and minimum preference. Extended discussion on whether men lie about height on dating apps, short kings, and the 6'3" vs 5'7" comparison Armani made.

Traditional relationships, marriage and vetting partners

Brian and Matt discuss vetting partners carefully before marriage. Debate on whether marriage is worth it, the analogy of entering a business partnership. Gia argues relationships are sacrificial not transactional. Discussion of who should pay on first dates.

Social media and modern dating problems

Discussion of how social media and dating apps have changed dating dynamics. Women accused of chasing top 5-10% of men on apps. Brian introduces statistics on singleness.

Marriage statistics and divorce rates

Matt presents divorce rate statistics: national average ~45%, but first-time married couples ~35%, and for white first-time married couples only ~13%. Argues 50% divorce stat is inflated by serial divorcees. Debates "anti-marriage propaganda."

Monogamy vs. non-monogamy

Riaan advocates for people to consider non-monogamy and reduce stigma. Gia defends monogamy as statistically better and morally grounded in Christian values. Grace discusses having opened a previous LDR and it going badly. Matt and Brian cite statistics showing monogamous relationships lead to better outcomes for children, lower abuse rates, etc.

Single-parent households and family structure

Discussion of crime statistics and single-parent households. Matt says 1/4 of US children lack a father figure; correlates with crime across all categories. Guests share personal experiences: several grew up in divorced/separated households. Madison lost her mother at 11. Matt and his brother grew up without a dad after parents divorced when he was in 2nd grade.

Promiscuity statistics and hypergamy

Brian presents data: 63% of men ages 18-29 report being single vs 34% of women same age. Debate on whether women or men are more promiscuous on average. Discussion of Tinder/OK Cupid data showing top 10% of men get most female attention. Matt and Brian argue evolutionary basis for female selectivity (pregnancy risk). TTS donation about 40% of men historically reproducing vs 80% of women.

Abortion and reproductive rights

Discussion of abortion; Gia is pro-life (Christian). Debate about at what point life begins, rape exceptions, contraception. Gia discusses her work with persecuted Christians as background context for her values.

Red flags in dating

Panel goes around sharing red flags they have encountered or watch out for in dating. Topics include lateness, social media behavior, bald guys posting photos, etc.

Wage gap and gender equality

Brian presents wage gap statistics; argues it is an earnings gap not a wage gap, caused by choices in career field, hours worked, and risk tolerance, not sexism. Notes 93% of workplace fatalities are men. Riaan declines to debate without more research.

Feminism debate

Show of hands on who identifies as feminist. Riaan says yes; Gia gives nuanced defense of equal rights/dignity but critiques modern feminism. Grace and others unsure of definition. Brian argues feminism is women's advocacy, not equality; cites feminist opposition to shared custody bills and draft registration for women as examples.

Left-handedness reparations (comedic)

Brian and Matt (both left-handed) jokingly demand reparations from right-handed guests, citing historical discrimination against left-handed children. Comedic segment before outro.

Transcript

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Gia Chaconthat's where you need boundaries word well I also feel like people just don't know how to date anymore I think that they don't know how to date or like vet or whatever

Gia Chaconphrase you want to use for it and I think that people use people especially in our society right now like women oftentimes they'll use guys for

Gia Chaconattention or for money or for Comfort or whatever it is and men use women for their bodies and also for comfort and we have the society that's so conditioned

Gia Chaconto using people instead of loving people and if we dated with the mindset I want to get to know this person I see their dignity and their value and I want to see if this person is a potential life

Gia Chaconpartner for me and invest in them I think that we would have different outcomes but unfortunately because of our selfish Society people are dating to use people instead of dating to love them and dating to commit to them long

Matt (StaySafeTV)term yeah I do think my my mindset on dating is that dating is a process with which you find a person to marry right yeah and so I think people are just sort of dating very flippantly maybe it's for physical pleasure or just for fun or

Matt (StaySafeTV)what it's just someone to do things with versus okay this is someone that I am testing out for marriage and the second I determined that our personalities are incompatible I think it's probably best to break it off and maybe move on to

Gia Chaconsomeone new right well so much of relationships are transactional instead of actually sacrificial and really a healthy strong relationship both

Gia ChaconPartners will be sacrificing and not giving 50 50 but giving 110 or 120 and showing up and sacrificing every day for that person but unfortunately we have

Gia Chaconpeople again using people having transactional relationships and not upholding the Dignity of the other person well let me ask as As a matter of oh did you have something okay okay

Brian Atlasum in terms of proportion who do you think is more likely just on a gender level who do you think is more likely to be a user because you said you mentioned Transit trans you know a lot of people are

Gia Chaconapproaching relationships in the transactional way men you think men are more likely to be using than women okay using women or do you think or using relationships

Gia Chaconwhich ones because I think men use women all day long you know as opposed to women yeah I think there's a difference between using a guy in a relationship like let's

Gia Chaconsay you're like trying to get something out of him so you're kind of I don't know agreeing to be in a relationship that you're not totally into the person or whatever because you think it's benefiting your life in some way is that what you're talking about or are you

Brian Atlastalking about just generally who uses the other okay so smart sure okay let's let's go into that so you said the way that men typically will engage in transactional relationships

Brian Atlaswith women or use women yeah is they use women for their bodies for sex or whatever I to some degree reject that but um but then you said did you say that

Brian Atlaswomen will use men for example for financial reasons some women okay I would argue that there are more women who are engaging in

Brian Atlastransactional relationships of this nature than the reverse and here's and here's one reason why I think there's a very small proportion of men

Brian Atlasthat are able to command that sort of attention from women whereas most like when it comes to like the relationship Dynamics I would say

Brian Atlasmost women generally speak like let's look at the average here of course I think there's this component of women will be a lot of women are all chasing after the top 10 top 20 percent of men

Brian Atlasum so those men have quite a bit of of negotiating power in relationships however you take an average guy and an average woman I'd say the average woman is running circles around the average guy when it I I and I think that's

Brian Atlasbecause women are much more socially attuned by the time a woman is 21 she's had much more social experience and I think just Naturally Speaking women are more socially attuned than men so women

Gia ChaconI think are much more capable of running circles around men than the reverse but most women are not getting into relationships because they think that they're going to get some sort of like lifestyle benefit

Gia Chaconor something like that they're in a relationship because they actually value the connection and I would say that that that's not always the case for men do you okay let me ask you a question who do you think should pay on the first

Gia Chacondate men well right that's a bit transactional don't you think no because it's it's not about the transaction of just them paying it's about that first of all I believe that men should pursue women I

Gia Chaconthink that men should take the leadership and relationships and even on the first date I don't think that it's about oh he should pay for my meal and I'm gonna go on a date with this guy and

Gia Chaconget a free meal out of it which a lot of people are saying as a joke or serious I think that it's a sign that that guy is willing to invest in you if not only in

Brian Atlastime but also in his money when he pays for your first date well you just said invest his time and his money so isn't that to some degree a transactional it's not that it's a transaction it's a

Gia Chaconshow that he's willing to sacrifice in the future for your family or to take care of you or and you're why shouldn't women be be doing that women do do it but in different ways so for example if

Brian Atlasa woman becomes a wife she might sacrifice her career to take care of her family and to have a baby and women sacrifice in a different way than men sacrifice yeah but it's not a given when you first meet somebody that you know for certain if this person is going to

Brian Atlasbe the person you spend the rest of your life with so I mean it's part of the person you're saying like two years down the road that's potentially when a woman uh brings her end of the deal like I'm

Gia Chaconjust I think it's part of I don't think it's about bringing her end of the deal it's part of the pursuit I think women are meant to be pursued unfortunately in the world we live in today women have take taken on masculine traits because they

Gia Chaconfeel like they've confused the idea of having equal rights as being the same as men so we have it backwards where now we have a lot of women who think they need to

Gia Chaconpursue and also with this idea of like this like scarcity idea that all women are going for the top 10 20 of men it's like there's this notion in women's Minds that there's like a scarcity of

Gia ChaconGood Men well I would argue that there's maybe a scarcity of good women also and that has to do with first of all women taking on taking on

Gia Chaconmasculine traits like pursuing the other person but it also has to do with us creating an environment that breeds weak

Gracemen that don't want to take leadership so like like some men I feel like like to do that like I I feel like men like to express themselves through doing stuff for people and taking care of you

Matt (StaySafeTV)so that can feel good to some men as well I like it when the woman Sims acts of service acts of service I gotta say one of the functions of like a high testosterone Giga Chad's high

Matt (StaySafeTV)value male is that you need to be willing to take risks and one of these risks that you want you need to make a calculated risk but one of those risks is okay I'm going to pay for the first date because this woman might three years from now like give me her womb and get and bear

Matt (StaySafeTV)my children and that's that's a sacrifice that she's making for me but I need to be willing to take a calculated risk today because that might be what what happens as a result

Gia ChaconI know what you're saying the pursuit though also is like is like showing the woman that you want to invest in her and take care of her it's like it's not just about like what might happen in the

Gracefuture it's part of the the game so to speak like the cat and mouse Pursuit yeah it's like a balance of like masculine and feminine energies it's not like so specific like a chart

Matt (StaySafeTV)yeah I got to say like this is this is the only thing I disagreed with you on is your hesitance to to use the word transactional I don't think it's a bad word like I might have got a stay-home wife we have a very aggressively

TTS Readertraditional relationship we are both very sorry Solutions donated 100 okay thank you mounting is Downstream from female Hedonism since they perpetuate

TTS Readerculture slash access to sex weak men Bend to those whims excreting adulation while men pursuing self-mastery withdraw their attention these women are not

Matt (StaySafeTV)worth it buy everywhere who allowed women to become hedonistic purveyors of of over sexualized content who who allowed women to do that

Matt (StaySafeTV)men did well I mean women have autonomy in the agency so I mean you know yeah I mean I I what but I'll tell you this I think the downfall of women is a direct result of the downfall of men

Matt (StaySafeTV)it's men becoming weak it's men becoming lazy and lethargic and addicted and overweight and porn addicted and I think men are down bad and as a result women have you hold nuts they're around meatballs

TTS Readerhey thank you man you shouldn't sacrifice for a relationship you should do things because the relationship you build brings value and joy to your life sacrifice implies you're doing something

Matt (StaySafeTV)against yourself for someone else 100 true I think actually it is beautiful and Noble as a husband to live sacrificially for your wife and for your wife inversely to live sacrificially for you in the same way you're doing for

Matt (StaySafeTV)your children as a father as a mother your job is to live self-sacrificially for your children for the betterment of your family of your bloodline of your wife or if you're the wife or your husband there's nothing wrong with being self-sacrificial as long as it's a

Matt (StaySafeTV)beautiful symbiotic reciprocal type of sacrifice okay if you're if you're not um inconveniencing yourself ever for your loved ones then how can you expect to have a healthy relationship you're not going to

Matt (StaySafeTV)it's not going to happen you need you need to get over this it's all about me it's all about me if you're not willing to make a compromise um for for your wife or for your children or or whatever then it's not

Brian Atlasgoing to work for you did I know you maybe wanted to comment on something and sentience we will come back and address your point go ahead um I forgot what I was talking about I think I already said

Brian Atlasfolks um but if I um but if it comes back to me I'll let you know let us know dude give us a little wink or something and I'll try to weave you in um so yeah I mean zentians was uh saying

Brian Atlasthat current dating is Downstream from female Hedonism since they perpetuate culture such access to sex

Brian Atlasnow you're taking the super Trad stance on it which is well men bear kind of ultimate responsibility because we as men ought to be and should be leaders and we are failing in our duty to be

Matt (StaySafeTV)leaders yeah I mean if you if you look back through human history at any time that you would consider traditional or based or whatever the men have been the ones that are sort of foundationally Building Society

Matt (StaySafeTV)that's just that seems to be the case right and so if men are traditionally the Builders of society if you have a traditional lens if you're looking at relationships through that lens if women are

Matt (StaySafeTV)becoming only fans models at age 18 or you know whatever we're kind of in a weird societal spot

Matt (StaySafeTV)I don't think men are entirely off the hook yeah I think I think but I think the blame falls on both men and women most certainly falls on both I think I think I think right now we've

Brian Atlasgot an epidemic of weak men very very weak addicted overweight lazy men before I let you come in does anyone on this side of the table want to weigh in I'd like to try to pull you

Armaniinto the conversation why can't women be the Breadwinners like why can't I be the provider for the household and like what if what if my husband wants to take care of the kids I will so be a stay-at-home dad for you I got you I think that's

Unknown (PA model)becoming more I'll take care of the kids and I feel like men are now expecting women to be the breadwinners um men are more willing to rely on the um

TTS Readerallowed to be hedonistic they are strong independent women now equal treatment unless they have proved they are worthy of your traditional role through their

Unknown (PA model)actions women can't be objectified unless they objectify themselves I agree about weak men I mean I think it's uh women can be objectified without

Matt (StaySafeTV)objectifying themselves absolutely I don't think there's been a time in human history where you've had more young this is a younger generation thing more young men objectifying women and this is a result of pornographic content

Matt (StaySafeTV)only fans Instagram things like that you've never had a time where there are more young men objectifying women and more young women commodifying men viewing them as nothing more than a paycheck or money or or or some sort of

Matt (StaySafeTV)resource absolutely and so this relationship dynamic is super super toxic to how people should and have always functioned it's like okay we're gonna date I'm going to vet my spouse we're gonna get married we're going to have kids that's not

Gia Chaconhappening there's so many roadblocks in the way yeah it's also not just about providing for your family I think that the like traditional role of a man has more to do than just taking

Gia Chaconbringing home the bread or the money or whatever it is there are other aspects and a husband that make him a provider and a leader and a protector like for example what would you say makes a good husband outside of just monetarily

Matt (StaySafeTV)providing for the family I would say the path of a traditional man is that path towards becoming the best husband father protective provider you possibly can that's an all-in company the idea that you would die for your family that you would protect them

Matt (StaySafeTV)that absolutely if needed people between anything that threatens your family and yeah and then inversely the path and the role of a traditional woman is that path towards being the best nurturer

TTS Readercaregiver or wife and and mother you possibly can be and living sacrificially is donated 100 caffeine gum gentlemen I disagree with

TTS Readeryou women are the guardians of virtue and wisdom they civilize men perhaps fathers have failed their daughters I might buy the telement of the situation

Brian Atlasyo Dr Annapolis thank you for the TTS man much appreciated um what there's a there's a lot of chatter on this I just want to keep tabs on everything um fathers have failed perhaps fathers I

Matt (StaySafeTV)don't know if it's Father's I mean it's it's women who are divorcing the men so um there are most certainly I think probably if I could snap my fingers and fix one problem in our society and that

Matt (StaySafeTV)we have a lot of problems in our society probably the biggest problem is the complete collapse or degradation of the traditional family unit right now you've got like it's like 25 percent of kids don't have a dad in their house that's

Matt (StaySafeTV)that's kids right now kids that are being born right now like if you're born today there's like a 65 chance your parents aren't even married that's if you're being born right now the traditional family unit oh wow

TTS Readerno you bubble head women must objectify themselves first before any man can I would say take accountability but I doubt you would understand let alone

TTS Readerspell the word it's called morals try and learn some before you start objectifying yourself just one one thought on the on what sentience just

Brian Atlassaid when it comes to uh uh objectification was it objectify uh you know there's been a lot of like talk from from feminists and you know there's a criticism of men how they have a

Brian Atlastendency to objectify women and there's this sexualization and objectification

Brian Atlashowever we saw what two three years ago with the uh Mass spread of only fans um

Brian Atlaswomen can't do that [ __ ] to themselves like they objectify themselves there's this talk of oh men they do they view women as objects but like here you can

Kacesee my naked body for 4.99 a month can I add something go ahead I think in terms of only fans senting to those pictures being released

Kaceand I don't have an only fans and I don't know many people who do so of course my perspective is limited in that regard but I do think that's a more consensual manner I think it becomes a

Kaceproblem when it's like and it can go both ways you know people I guess objectifying like men on Tick Tock and Men objectifying women in the gym or something like you know it's just

Brian Atlaslike a widespread problem but I think it has more to do with like I don't know I don't know where I'm going well okay I mean even going even going Beyond only fans I mean if you

Brian Atlaslook at a girl who doesn't do any sort of adult content but you can look at like a lot of women's Instagrams for example they're taking to some degree

Brian Atlassemi-provocative or fairly provocative photos like oh like bending over [ __ ] camera looking straight up the hoo-ha in like a bikini and

Brian Atlaslike when I say object objectification it's like you are you are putting that out there on your own with your own agency I think that

Gracesome women might think I'm being objectified anyway so I might as well capitalize on it as well but but is it objectification for a man to find a woman physically attractive

Matt (StaySafeTV)here's what I'll say I think probably the most valuable virtue that a man can have is discipline if we had men in the society disciplined there would be no more porn there would be no more only fans who would be

Gia Chaconjerking off to it no one would right like is porn a Bad Thing very bad absolutely bad terrible shots fired super bad they've done studies on the effect that porn has on both men and

Gia Chaconwomen and if we're just talking about men it's it has the Studies have shown that it has all around negative effects on men not only in their relationships but also in their productivity and their

Gia Chaconenergy levels in their like desire to achieve more for their lives the more that there's a direct correlation for how much men are consuming porn and uh how

Gia ChaconI guess like stagnant their life is and the other and because of the dopamine increase that they get when they watch porn it makes it harder to get that dopamine in other places so they'll feel less satisfied in their work they'll

Gracefeel less satisfied in their partner I've seen those studies actually I've looked into that but I would think that it's like similar to other things in life that give you dopamine like your

Gracephone or candy that it's like needs to be regulated and also I would imagine like some of that the way they feel is because of like the guilt and shame surrounded around porn in our society

Gia Chaconthis is what I think when we're talking about porn addiction my concern with addiction or dopamine release I wasn't talking about like porn addiction I was just talking about porn in general well actually they they did a study not even

Gia Chaconabout adult content but about men who had a lot of they followed a lot of like social media models or whatever Instagram models on social media they

Gia Chaconsaid they did a study that they were less attracted to their partner in real life the more there was like direct correlation for how many Instagram models they followed how much they're scrolling how much time they're spending on their phone looking at these women and how attracted they felt to their

Gracepartner or people they were meeting in real life that's so true by the way I'm not here like defending porn or anything I'm kind of just like playing Devil's Advocate and like throwing into different perspectives and like trying

Gia Chaconto understand how people feel about it because I'm just so closely related to that industry as well yeah I'm sure you've seen a lot of things that or know of a lot of things that we don't even know about I I certainly do yeah and I

Madisonknow you said you weren't talking about like porn addiction just porn in general but like you said it's like a dopamine fix once a kid gets candy they're going to want to eat more candy once someone watches porn they're gonna keep watching porn and be eventually becoming but then there's also people who have like

Matt (StaySafeTV)healthy diets that eat candy occasionally I think it depends on like the personality well okay so when we're when we're talking about substances that have the capacity to be very damaging to you uh or we'll use the word Addiction and you can bring up candy or video

Matt (StaySafeTV)games or porn or heroin or whatever right I think what's less important to talk about is the fact that something can be addictive or release dopamine in your brain and make you feel good versus the capacity for that addiction to cause really really substantial damage to you

Matt (StaySafeTV)on the micro level and Society on the macro level porn is very very damaging to you as a as an individual and Society on the macro and there's like 20 different stats you could throw out to talk about this General Dynamics and

Matt (StaySafeTV)dating and marriage and divorce rates and it all sort of ties together porn is has been a very very damaging experiment on the minds of young men and this the the the earlier you start watching porn as a as a young boy some people are I

Matt (StaySafeTV)mean kids you say it's like 11 or 12 they're watching hardcore pornography your sexual dopamine Reward Center is in most cases permanently just completely frazzled I'm I'm definitely familiar with the end the way that it

Gracelike makes people view sex and what they think is okay I'm just I'm curious like do you think Society what could exist without that or

Matt (StaySafeTV)is it just like something that you feel like is like deemed to be created no matter what well I think there'll always be porn to some degree this is what I'll tell young man though is that you know blaming promiscuous women for the downfall Society is not going to get you

Matt (StaySafeTV)anywhere what will fix society and fix young men and the men's Mental Health crisis is men adopting discipline and stopping consuming this content I can't talk about this and not say that

Graceit doesn't harm women that industry harms them

Gracelike laws that are related to that also like I feel like affect people are in it what is put out there what's allowed okay just going back to what you're

Brian Atlassaying Matt um you're saying that it's a lack of male leadership which is ultimately to blame let me ask you a question though I'd say a lack of meal discipline male

Matt (StaySafeTV)okay well it's man's inability to say no to things that make them feel good in the moment such as casual sex yeah yeah promiscuous sex I one of the biggest problems I have with the red pill

Matt (StaySafeTV)Community is this hand waving of male promiscuity it's the said monishment of female promiscuity and then hand waving of male promiscuity it's equally as bad let's let's be honest it's terrible well

Brian Atlasthe the I think the difference is though is that there are more promiscuous Jesus people need to fix their brakes [ __ ] okay uh oh it's a pause okay um

Brian Atlasthe thing is though as far as like the hand waving of male promiscuity um I agree with you like I don't I don't think male promiscuity is a good thing

Brian AtlasI'm someone who believes like in the value of relationships uh the the thing is though is that I think there are more promiscuous women than there are promiscuous men

Brian Atlasan average woman and below average woman if she was so inclined to be promiscuous could do so very easily I'm not so you could say the same thing about a below average man this is what I would say I

Matt (StaySafeTV)would include pornographic Addiction in male promiscuity is that fair do you think that's true well I mean because those men are being fulfilled and satiated in just the same way and as a result of that pornographic addiction and they're watching porn every single day sometimes multiple

Matt (StaySafeTV)times a day they're opting out of pursuing real life women and bettering themselves in the pursuit of pursuing real life women sure they're totally comfortable with that dopamine drip of pornographic content I would I would put that under the

Brian Atlasumbrella of male promiscules well it's it's a little bit Shifting the goal posts but um I kind of I kind of see where you're where you're going I mean the outcome is like effectively the same though right sort of the the form is different but

Brian Atlasthe outcome is the same men are opting out of traditional relationships but okay if we're talking about specifically the term promiscuity that that's strictly related to sexual encounters if

Matt (StaySafeTV)you want to make that into an umbrella term that includes consuming pornography let's replace it with like profane or perverse sexual conduct or something

Brian AtlasI think the porn thing is a separate issue if we're speaking strictly about promiscuity um you could I mean you could actually make the you can very well make the argument that men consuming porn

Brian Atlascould very well be taking them out taking themselves out of the sexual Marketplace because they're fulfilling their needs their sexual needs through porn although there are certainly men who watch porn and still engage in

Brian Atlascasual sex or watch porn or who are in relationships with women so but uh there's probably a there's probably a good amount of men who consume porn and

Brian Atlasthat fulfills their need or stifles their need to pursue actual sex with women so the point I I the point I'd like to make

Brian Atlasthough is if we're gonna say okay well promiscuity in men is is just as bad or worse as promiscuinian women well let's look at the numbers I would argue that there are far more women who are

Brian Atlasengaging in casual sex or promiscuity than there are men engaging in casual sex and promiscuity there certainly are men who are promiscuous however there are more women who are capable of it's

Brian Atlasit's very easy to be promiscuous as a woman no doubt yeah it's much harder to be if you're a real like attractive guy or you've got Charisma or you've gotten some status you've got some money do you have statistics on this or is this just something that you

Brian Atlasthink it's self-efficient can I ask you a question it's self hold on let me let me just address her point I want to say let me just address your thing go ahead okay no go ahead well you you said do I have statistics on this yeah would you

Brian Atlasagree that any single girl any single girl here at the table it's 8 30 p.m on Tuesday if she was so inclined could probably like go out to the street or go download the dating app and get sex

Brian Atlastonight if they were so if they were so inclined and he said well I don't even need to ask you I know any single girl here at this table you could download the dating app you could walk on the street just go up to a guy say hey do

Brian Atlasyou want to have sex might not be the first might not be the second but you will get you will get a guy who will sleep with you whereas as a guy

Brian Atlasunless you're like super top tier dude or super charismatic good luck women are not doing that but but it's so you're saying

Gia Chaconthe capability to 10. once you set capability and the second time you said that women are more promiscuous so there there are more women who engage in casual sex and promiscuity than there are men you don't

Madisonhave a statistic for that well I here I could pull it up Eric could you pull up that that chart you've pulled it up a bunch of times Well I agree and disagree because if men were The Gatekeepers of sex I think that their percentage of

Madisonpromiscuity would be a lot more than woman would honestly like ultimately men and women are very different they're like they use each other for very different things

Madisonlike man it is their duty to protect provide and everything like that be financially well so that's what women seek women use men for their money like I said women are they Gatekeepers of sex

Madisonso that's what men seek like that's what men want even more I think do you have the I think the the bigger problem is that we have a society

Gia Chaconof yeah we'll come back to it men and women who engage in casual sex who devalue relationships who devalue monogamous relationships and think that

Gia Chaconsomehow this will this lifestyle will make them happy or fulfill them when statistically that's just not true either it's statistically proven that women especially but people who are in

Gia Chaconmonogamous committed relationships are happier and have and actually men who are married or more successful as well so women are happier men are happier and

Gia Chaconmore successful and Society betters is is bettered because of it and we as women I don't know how you feel but we've been told this lie that somehow

Gia Chaconengaging in casual sex or allowing ourselves to be objectified or whatever terminology we want to use and I want to be sensitive about it is somehow empowering

Gia Chacondo you guys feel empowered by those things I mean truthfully and if you do that's fine through sex yeah um

Unknown (PA model)personally no no I've always been I mean this is weird for me to say but when the more conservative side um so I mean no what do you think that

Unknown (PA model)you want out of relationships or a relationship um emotional security um just someone to share and grow with

Unknown (PA model)um you know some a strong leader obviously someone to show me how to do things um I feel like most women feel the same way is that not true

Graceum I would say um have a feeling of empowerment related to that a little bit like through my job I feel like is related to sex so I was able to support

Gracemyself in a way to be able to educate myself better take care of myself have World experiences and like build myself into a person that I was I don't think I

Gia Chaconwould have been able to become without that do you think that it has more to do with the fact that you had money to be able to create the lifestyle that you wanted a little bit but also I've learned a lot about people like

Graceinteractions all kinds of things but I think money is a big part of it yeah and also I mean you said that you were into serious

Gracerelationships I wouldn't say like casual sex is something that is so much related to me with that because even though I work in a very sexual industry I was a dancer for many years too I don't know

Graceif I mentioned that I was a stripper for a very long time so even though I worked in that industry there was a long time doing that where I was celibate or I was dating um someone else in another country so I

Matt (StaySafeTV)wasn't having like sex if you were given the option would you want that sort of traditional relationship where the husband is financial providing and you're maybe a stay-home wife or mother um I

Gracewouldn't like to say financially providing but everything else like I like a partnership like I'm love is something that is very important to me

Graceum I like like a monogamous relationship with someone I like I understand a lot about relationships I know what I'm willing to give and like ready to give

Graceto someone I'm very nurturing person but you wouldn't want to share that with somebody you wouldn't want to be financially dependent on a man okay I like to

Gracelike but I wouldn't ever want to be financially dependent on I mean I've always been like very financially dependent on myself and I can't imagine not having that like what if something

Matt (StaySafeTV)happened you know of course you don't want to think that but would you expect to be able to continue doing sort of sexual content whilst also

Gracebeing married or becoming a mother um it depends like if if the if someone was requesting that I stopped doing that

Graceand they were able to like provide for me to replace that I would consider it um I I feel like with me dating it's

Gracevery important to talk about with anyone that I'm gonna be with and I really like to try and understand more like what that would be like for them like that

Graceperspective of always being on the spotlight a lot of perceives attention so I feel like also with getting someone someone like me I've been some donations

TTS Readerhappiness is an inappropriate metric for marriage statistics because it is an emotional state of mind happiness comes and goes it fluctuates so what's the

Matt (StaySafeTV)point of using that for marriage stats common Mistake by Trad cons there's actually I mean this is a very curious thing there's longitudinal happiness indexes that talk a lot about this I can

Matt (StaySafeTV)I'll try to keep this PC um men that don't get married in their 40s and 50s they are 300 more depressed than married men and their

Matt (StaySafeTV)rate of um terminal depression is 200 increased men that are unmarried in their 40s to 50s and for women it's about less it's like 200 rate of increased depression

Matt (StaySafeTV)and then 150 or so rate of increased terminal depression so if you want to talk about the ramifications of not being in a more traditional relationship being unmarried

Brian Atlasit actually doesn't manifest very well I wonder what the difference though is between men who have never been married men who are single and men who have been divorced well they had very bad divorces you mean

Brian Atlaswe I don't know if there's any stats on that but I do want to bring it back to we do have the stats Eric can you pull up the stats this is a general social

Brian Atlassurvey uh The Washington Post reported on this most recently as of 2018 so young men driving the decline in sex share of men and women between ages 18

Brian Atlasand 30 reporting No Sex in the past year so 28 percent of men versus 18 percent of women I think this graph would essentially prove that there are more

Brian Atlaswomen engaging in casual sex than there are men there's also something from Pew research uh Eric if you can look in the infographics tab

Brian Atlasthere's Pew men more single and Pew men more single two uh and this is more recent than that 2018 GSS survey that the Washington Post reported on Eric can you let me know when you have those

Gia Chaconpulled up there should be two of them was that last study single women is it single men and women or is it both uh which one the the one you just pulled up was it single is that accounting for

Brian Atlaspeople in relationships or just single men and women well it's the share of men and women between ages 18 and 30 reporting No Sex in the past year yeah so some of them are in relationships

Gia ChaconI'm just saying well I'm not sure how is that relevant to the statistic I'm just trying to because there's a difference between having casual sex and being in a monogamous relationship which is the point that you were making okay hold on

Brian Atlasuh Eric can you pull up the initial graph so we can the the initial one did you ax out of it

Brian Atlasuh so it it doesn't really differentiate but I mean I I suppose some of these people are in sexless relationships but it's

Brian Atlastalking about reporting No Sex in the past year so I'm trying to understand where the relation whether if they're in a really relationship or not has any bearing on

Gia Chaconthis specific infographic because you that you were making was that women are this is what you said that women are more promiscuous than men

Gia Chaconso you're showing whether or not they've had those encounters but you're not saying whether or not they're in a relationship or single and maybe your next statistic talks about single ones but I'm just saying specifically for

Gia Chaconthat one so I'm just you're you're the case that you were making was that women are more promiscuous than men and I want to know the statistics specifically on how single women are more promiscuous I

Brian Atlasthink that's what the graph that the graph just showed that there are a greater proportion of women who have reported having sex than men

Brian Atlasyeah but that could be women in relationships exactly but typically in a relationship you've paired off one to one therefore if there if there's more there's a larger proportion of women who

Brian Atlasare engaging it's it's plausible that there are well I think this is actually the case that there is women who think they're in relationships with a guy

Brian Atlaswhen really that guy has multiple women but but that would suggest that I mean well in any case let's see the other infographic

Brian Atlasyou did pull up both of them right okay the sheriff single men in the U.S who are looking for dates or relationship has declined since 2019 um okay so that shows that wait the

Brian Atlasshare of single uh percent of percent of single U.S adults who say they are looking for committed romantic relationship and or casual dates so single men single women 61 this is in

Brian Atlas2019 uh I think the other one's actually more important but so single men 50 versus single women I think it's the other one that's more relevant uh the number two okay three in ten Americans report being

Brian Atlassingle but this varies by age and this next one's important by gender so three in ten Americans report being single between the ages of 18 to 29 63 percent

TTS Readerof men are reporting being single oh [ __ ] donating 100 stay safe even if those stats may be true that does not help address the

TTS Readerdeclining marriage rates men shouldn't be getting married just to prove a point that they won't get depression or be a criminal especially when you consider the financial risks yo Alvin Sam good to see you in the chat thank you man um

Matt (StaySafeTV)yeah I will say there's a lot of misinformation about divorce rates in the U.S a lot of people will repeat this Trope that 50 of marriages in in the US and in divorce it's actually around 45 and then if you look even deeper at that if you look at first time so if you're a

Matt (StaySafeTV)man and a woman who are both getting married for the first time that National divorce rate average is actually 35 because if people are getting married let's say you're on your second marriage your divorce rate goes up from 44 on average sorry from 35 on average up to

Matt (StaySafeTV)63 and then if it's your third marriage your divorce rate goes up to around 70 or 71 so this this 44 national average stat is getting sort of inflated by people that are on their second or third

Matt (StaySafeTV)divorce or people that are sorry they're getting divorced super quickly and sort of flippantly um and then it's sort of different by the Aria socioeconomic or racial

Matt (StaySafeTV)demographics if you look at two uh like my wife and I are both white we both got married for the first time we're not on our second marriage or second divorce um our national average divorce rate is 13 so suddenly you start sort of looking

Matt (StaySafeTV)at the Nuance of these divorce rates and it's like well it's actually maybe not as bad as you think it is we all are thinking 50 it's actually for my demographic it's 13 it's not as bad as you've sort of been ingrained to think it is because these numbers are like I said they're sort of stat padded by

Matt (StaySafeTV)people that are serially getting divorced over and over and over again I think there's a certain amount of um anti-marriage and anti-family propaganda in the country sort of trying to compel

Brian Atlasyou guys from not getting married but what's that are you the propagandist you're the propaganda the anti-marriage propaganda arm propaganda Minister um in any case um let's uh Alvin Sam

Brian Atlasthank you very much for your uh to uh tts's there really appreciate your support good to seeing the Chapman let's pull back up that stat I was kind of getting to so the big one is gender here three in ten Americans report being

Brian Atlassingle and that that's just taking everybody into account but it varies by age and gender if you look at ages 18 to 29 if you go uh to about the

Brian Atlasfourth grouping down it says men ages 18 to 29 are reporting being 63 of reporting being single in that same age

Brian Atlascohort for women just below it ages 18 to 29 only 34 are reporting being single so what's going on there um that that's very shocking that in that their exact

Brian Atlassame age cohort you have women who are not single but you have a large swath of men who who are so it could be explained by for example perhaps

Brian Atlasum you know women might be dating uh an older age demographic women generally speaking they they it's skews I think on average maybe two three years older than

Brian Atlasthem typically at least for marriage um but uh it would suggest to me that you have

Brian Atlasa not minimal cohort of women who are dating a small pool of men I think you've seen a lot of data come out of Tinder or only what's it called

Matt (StaySafeTV)another fans Okay Cupid this dating site where it sort of highlights this this is to your point this sort of sexually hypergamous situation where it's like the top this is your Giga Chad your eight out of ten nine out of 10 10 out

Matt (StaySafeTV)of 10 guys that are having free range in having sex with women from men are not so pickies actually right a 10 out of 10 guy will sometimes be in the mood to have sex with a 5 out of 10 girl sure whatever it's a bad day

Matt (StaySafeTV)whatever and so yeah you're having the top Giga chat type of guys that are sort of having free reign amongst all of the girls and then that means that 70 or 80 of men are not having access to these women I think what what's happening is

Brian Atlasis you have like you have some hyper sexual hyper promiscuous men at the very top and then you have some like mid

Brian Atlasmedium tier uh and that's a small percentage of men that are like hyper promiscuous where they're like you know you'll have some women like that too then you'll have a

Brian Atlashigher proportion of women who are like let's say medium levels of promiscuity and then you'll have like a huge swath of men that are basically incapable of engaging in hookup culture or

Brian Atlaspromiscuity simply by virtue simply out of necessity they they can't engage in hookup culture or promiscuity because they just don't have the looks or the Charisma or you know whatever whatever

Brian Atlasit may be and I just the last thing I'd point out um if it if it was the case that there's equal uh levels of promiscuity between men and women how would you then explain

Brian Atlasfor example the incel phenomenon which doesn't exist in women are you familiar with incel yeah oh in in cell so that stands for involuntarily

Brian Atlascelibate so basically men who uh sometimes they uh they add like an uh like how a period of time for it but basically men who are involuntarily celibate despite their want and desire

Brian Atlasto have a sexual relationship with a girl they're just in either they're unattractive or they they are severely lacking on some social front or what you know whatever it may be they cannot get

Gia Chaconsex I think what's more sad about this conversation is that we're living in an era where promiscuity multiple partners engaging in casual sex is somehow

Gia Chaconglorified over having a monogamous relationship so I don't know about the women here I feel like we've kind of been on this tangent for a little bit but I I'm genuinely curious like do you do each of you want to find a life

Gia Chaconpartner to find somebody that you can be vulnerable with to give your love to to mutually take care of each other well I have a question for you do you think monogamy is like the right way like the

Gia Chacononly way it should be like do you not think non-monogamous relationships are I think okay I no I don't think non-monogamous relationships are okay and here's why I think that

Gia Chaconin order to be fully vulnerable and to give yourself fully to into your relationship let's put it that way you ha it has to be with one person and when you're in a monogamous relationship it

Gia Chaconopens room for Full Sacrifice Full Love full giving of the other person and it allows us especially as women to be fully vulnerable with our man knowing that he's going to take care of us and

Gia Chaconthat we don't have to put up this you know protection over our hearts and over you know us as individuals in our Spirits so I think that yes

Gia Chaconrelationships need to be monogamous and again if we look at the satisfaction and the Fulfillment that people get out of relationships statistically Partners feel happier and more fulfilled

Gia Chaconwhen they're in monogamous relationships and I'm not saying that is that a fact it was done by the American Family study I believe but are we just going to gloss over our back and forth on the the promiscuity thing I never proved that so

Madisonyou brought up a statistic that did not talk about you brought up the singleness okay but you said Maddie you're taking signs no I will say okay so I do agree okay I do agree that women are more

Madisonpromiscuous but the stats that you brought up are 63 percent of men are single that doesn't mean they're not promiscuous right can I say something only single men can be promiscuous I think that men would be as promiscuous as women if they could be but they don't

Gia Chaconthey don't have the options okay regardless of whether we think it or not based on the statistics that you showed there's not sufficient evidence so if you can bring me sufficient evidence that shows the statistics on single

Gia Chaconwomen in promiscuity then we can have that conversation in in more depth also but the ones that you brought were not like so hold on but the sex freak okay here pull up the sex frequency one hold on we'll come back to you that doesn't

Gia Chaconaccount for women in relationships it just says I don't see World study on men and women it doesn't say anything about single multiple partners or anything like that and you're using specifically the word

Brian Atlaspromiscuous I mean maybe I'm Arsen hold on keep it up maybe I'm our slurred here but I'm I'm I'm failing to see how your argument about whether you know what

Gracethis promiscuous mean with this specific perspective here okay so let's just say you're right right and women are more promiscuous and

Gracethen what like men are better like what are we trying to argue here like are men better or our question like I think that they're different in all of these

Graceall everything we're talking about is so situational like this isn't like such a black and white issue like oh are are women worse or are men worse like I feel like it's like pitting them against each

Graceother more instead of like talking about like ways that we can try and understand each other and like it's okay for some people to have faults in certain ways and others in other ways but okay so we

Gia Chaconcan still we could like instead of like arguing it's like then it degrades women to say that women are more promiscuous than men so it's not about who's better

Brian Atlasbut if you're gonna make how's it doing women if it's promiscuous what does promiscuous mean what is promiscated essentially if you I my view of it would

Brian Atlasbe if you engage in casual sex why does yes be degrading

Brian Atlasyeah I think men are evolutionarily designed to be more promiscuous men men have a higher sex drive men have a higher sex drive however men are less

Brian Atlasable to to act on said like it's much harder for men to secure sex than it is for women to secure why is it because women can watch they sleep with where men just sleep with anyone

Brian Atlasfor men why do you think it's harder for men women women sleep with who they want men sleep with who they can why do you think that is well there's there's a biological basis I think women are more

Graceare these sexual selectors for example but but also women are more selective women are more picky like they have standards it's because for 99. some women are

Matt (StaySafeTV)worried about being seen as promiscuous or getting judged so that leads them to be more picky for all of human history prior to Advent birth control on what the 1970s if a woman is having promiscuous sex is a very high chance that she'll get pregnant and she'll be

Matt (StaySafeTV)tied down to a man that she might not even love so her body will go through enormous changes for nine months you'll have to take care of a baby she'll have to grow fetus inside of her that's why I mean biologically female promiscuity is generally not a great thing that's why women have evolved like not not to want

Matt (StaySafeTV)to do that they want to lock down one man that's how a woman ought to behave which is why generally if a woman is super promiscuous these days it's like sort of counter to her biological nature in general is just not a great thing I agree with that men and women so yeah

Graceit's a great promise I think we can all agree anyone

Matt (StaySafeTV)shot it down 2024 no promiscuity shut it down get married have kids get married tie the knot say no to promiscuity 2024 each other being

Graceobviously hell yeah seeing other people's perspectives you know that's a good thing okay but so I can answer your thing about like why the competition y'all okay but like I'm in a women's composition I can answer your thing as

Brian Atlasto why we're having this discussion and it's stemmed from this idea that well men ought to be leaders and and it's it's you know men are to blame for the current state of affairs between the

Brian AtlasSexes and I mean my my view I could say that okay my view is is that it sounds like you just want to be blamed I have no idea what you're talking about

Matt (StaySafeTV)but what's it says explain it to you I'm the one I'm a radical man blamer I blame man to the ultimate degree I'm a man hater I hate it but that's not men are always

Gia Chaconresponsible we actually have a problem in our society where we've we were kind of talking about this before the show like we've created the society that

Gia Chaconnon-stop bags on men and trashes on masculinity when and I'm I'm not saying that all men are perfect they're certainly not and men have failed

Gia ChaconSociety in many ways but this narrative that masculinity and men are toxic they're bringing everything back to society is just first of all just certainly not true and it hurts men and

Gracealso hurts women this narrative hurts women yeah and like I feel like as a woman who experiences that I want to try and be more understanding of what that's like for meant and not just be like

Gracewomen are the only people who experience that like we both experience that in different ways and I feel like sometimes women struggle with that gets highlighted more just me because what we're going through

Matt (StaySafeTV)in this time but that doesn't mean that like it doesn't exist for men too well I'll say I look at a lot of this oh here we go

TTS Readernine dollars lady only 40 of men have reproduced historically compared to eighty percent of women this has been proven through DNA research a quick

TTS ReaderGoogle search will show the studies most men won't reproduce women are by their very nature more promiscuous than men

Gia Chaconmaybe someone should do an actual study on this and then bring us the statistics and we can come back and discuss it let's go back to capability though because that's a big wait hold on this

Matt (StaySafeTV)is the exact opposite of female promiscuity 40 of men are breeding and eighty percent of women are that means if it's one man and multiple women more often but okay that's actually male promiscuity what are you talking about

Brian Atlasthat's the opposite of your point you're trying to make that's one man two women here's the difference is you could have

Brian Atlasone man who impregnates 20 women yep so you you have you could have like a top tier of men that are capable of sleeping

Brian Atlaswith like a hundred women but you might have a hundred women who are more promiscuous than the average man I would say the average woman is more promiscuous than the average man simply

Brian Atlasby virtue of the fact that they are more capable that's the big thing capability is a very important component of this discussion women are more capable of being promiscuous

TTS Readerdonated 100 yeah thank you I appreciate it the studies are indeed confounded by access to sex are adjusted by number of Partners perceptually active individual or

TTS Readerindividual sexual activity rate then the few sexually active men will win the contest word I feel like everybody's

Gracepromise to like nope nope we're all just some freaks unfortunately that I'm not familiar Society has created that narrative though right I'm just like generalizing here but like I'm just

Gracesaying like everybody is different like we're just I'm just still confused where this argument is going of like well we're having a conversation about it yeah so I think we never got a chance to answer

Gia Chaconthe question though like what do women want do you like if we did a survey of the women here would you want to be in a committed relationship where you felt you could be vulnerable and taken care of and that you could fully trust the other person I feel like you could still

Riaando that in non-monogamous relationships I actually feel like it's a lot easier to feel fulfilled and satisfied and non-monogamous relationships because you can go to Haram you can go to multiple

Riaanpeople for different needs I mean it's kind of it's really hard when you expect like just one person to be you're basically a whole entire support system sure well let's let's talk about that

Brian Atlasreally quick riaan I think in your pre-show information that you sent us you said you wanted to talk about monogamy and cheating and that Ma you said modern dating is problematic and

Riaanmost people you said most people should be non-monogamous I think people that was a little bit extreme of me to say but I think most people should start oh no considering

Brian Atlasmost people should start considering non-monogamy because are you are you non-monogamous I'm confused I'm considering it I'm figuring it out currently I didn't mean to cut you off there you said people should should

Riaanstart considering non-monogamy because I didn't mean to cut you off they're good I feel like um Society puts pressure on you know us individuals to um only be in monogamous relationships

Riaanlike a lot of people think monogamy is the right way to go there's a lot of negative um there's stigma around non-monogamous relationships and I feel like if Society just started

Riaanbeing more open-minded about non-monogamy people would be able to start exploring that option and there'd be less cheating because less cheating yeah because I feel like people don't

Madisonwant to be non-monogamous because they think it's wrong like you're saying that you feel like monogamy is the right way to go about religion do you think that non-monogamous relationships are more successful than monogamous ones I feel

Madisonlike the happiest most successful relationships come out of monogamous relationships that's true that's proven actually I think it depends on the person like if you want to be if I think

Riaanthe issue is people think that a lot of people think that monogamy is the right way to go about relationships but if people were to be more open-minded about

Gia Chaconnon-monogamous relationships and we're given like the opportunity or didn't feel bad about exploring it then so you know my question would be what do you think a relationship is and what do you

Gia Chaconwant to get out of it because if it's just fulfilling desires then that's then you're saying that you'll feel more satisfied or more fulfilled just be single it's not a relationship at that

Gia Chaconpoint well I mean I have a different opinion about that too but I will say though I mean it's it we are more than our desires we're more than like our want to explore and I don't know about

Gia Chaconthe women sitting here but I know that when you're in a relationship with somebody that you love and that you're committed to and you feel like you can trust them fully you feel the happiest you feel the most secure and statistics

Gracehave shown that so my question is like what not possible to do that with more than one partner though what she's saying is not possible I think she's just saying like statistically it's been

Graceshown from what we know so far that that's how people react and function in monogamous relationships and there might even be statistics opposed to like Paul I'm like

Gracepolyamorous relationships is that what you're talking about when you date like when you are like in a relationship with more than one person but it's somehow just you two or like you have rules within them so it goes back to my

Riaanquestion of what do you want out of a relationship and what do you view a relationship like what do you think it should be I feel like a relationship to me um is just two people coming together

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