4v4 Debate GOD Andrew Wilson vs. Feminists! Virgin GIGACHAD! Jaquan! Farha! | Dating Talk #124

Date: 2023-12-04

Duration: 5h 58m

Guests

Brian Atlas

RRosie Genene >

MMiss D. Marie >

KKimberly (DT124)>

MMadison (SBCC)>

QQ Jquan (DT139)>

MMason Gregoire >

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_03Madison(guest)

SPEAKER_04Miss D. Marie(guest)

SPEAKER_05Rosie Genene(guest)

SPEAKER_06Farha Khan(guest)

SPEAKER_08Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_09Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_10Mason Gregoire(guest)

SPEAKER_11Kimberly(guest)

SPEAKER_13J'Quan (Jaquan)(guest)

Key Moments

IntroRosie Genene introduces herself: 32yo patient care advocate for oncology pharmacy and part-time YouTube vlogger (quirky love rose).

“hello my name is Rosie genene I go by quirky love rose on the internet I am 32 just had my birthday a couple weeks ago I am a full-time patient care advocate for a specialty pharmacy specializing oncology as well as a part-time vlogger on YouTube”

IntroFarha Khan introduces herself: 24yo content creator on TikTok/Instagram; best content on OnlyFans.

“hi my name is far KH I'm 24 years old um I'm a content creator on Tik Tok and Instagram but my best content is on onlyfans.com”

IntroMiss D. Marie introduces herself: actress and model, from Seattle, resides in LA.

“uh Miss D Marie uh I just had a birthday too and I'm an actress plus model I'm from Seattle but I reside in La”

IntroKimberly introduces herself: 22yo caregiver/babysitter from Indio near Coachella.

“hello my name is Kimberly I'm 22 years old I'm a caregiver SL babysitter and I'm from Indio by Coachella”

IntroMadison introduces herself: 19yo from San Diego, full-time SBCC business student, Whatever Podcast staff, and bar host at The Quill.

“my name is Madison I'm 19 years old I'm from San Diego California I'm a full-time student at Santa Barbara City College studying business I work for the whatever podcast and I'm a host at a bar the qill”

IntroJ'Quan introduces himself: 30yo behavioral scientist, certified relationship coach, YouTuber, influencer, book author.

“30 years old behavioral scientist certified relationship coach YouTuber influencer book author”

IntroMason Gregoire introduces himself: 27yo, primarily a Christ follower, mechanical engineer, content creator, competitive powerlifter.

“Mason greguar um as always uh primarily a Christ follower um I am a mechanical engineer content creator uh competitive powerlifter uh 27 years old”

IntroAndrew Wilson introduces himself: host of The Crucible; content creator; works in robotics; 39 years old; happily married.

“name is Andrew Wilson I'm the host of The Crucible um so I I guess I'm mostly a content creator now I also work um kind of in the same type of field except in robotics um 39 years old happily married”

QuoteMason Gregoire confirms he is a virgin waiting until marriage for religious reasons (Christian conviction).

“yeah it's uh it's for religious reasons well I mean as a Christian it's something I'm convicted of I mean the Bible speaks on it all the time so that's stance I take on that and uh I take it seriously and more so that you're also you're waiting till marriage yes I'm also waiting till marriage”

QuoteRosie discloses being groomed into feederism (death feederism) by a stalker she met in 2012-2013 who later hacked her Cash App and cloned her phone number in 2021.

“hi my name is Rosie and I was groomed into feederism feederism is a kink like a sexual King regarding feeding someone generally for the purpose of them being fat or getting fat”

QuoteRosie discloses attending BBW swinger parties in Atlanta area in 2019 and having up to 10 partners in one night during her post-breakup 'party phase.'

“at one night 10 was that like an intentional goal like you went in no it actually was kind of accidental I just like I was very laid fair about life at the time”

Key MomentAndrew Wilson debates Farha Khan on the ethics of OnlyFans consumption under her claim 'there is no ethical consumption under capitalism.' Andrew points out this implies OnlyFans consumption is either unethical or morally neutral.

“they can't be ethically neutral if she says every single time is she say no ethical not unethical those are two different things yes so it's so everything under your worldview then when it comes to capitalism is either immoral or morally neutral”

ControversyAndrew Wilson argues body shaming serves a legitimate societal corrective function — shame keeps people from publicly normalizing unhealthy behaviors and discourages others from following the same path.

“the constructive criticism it's a shaming tactic so that everybody who sees a person like you out there trying to say it's okay... they're trying to instill a sense of shame so that if other women see that they don't go that road”

Key MomentAndrew Wilson states he required his wife to get a paternity test regardless of his trust in her, and if she objected he would leave.

“you're going to get the test and if not I'm out the door period”

QuoteMisty (Miss D. Marie) rates herself a 10 and defends it as self-love philosophy: 'I am a Misty 10.'

“I took a long time for me to love myself and I do now and so yeah I think that like you know I'm I'm my I'm a misty 10”

Key MomentSelf-ratings round: Rosie 8, Farha 8.5, Misty 10, Mason 10, Kimberly 7, Madison 8, Andrew Wilson 4, Brian 5. Andrew Wilson defends his 4 as an objective assessment; debates Rosie and Misty on subjective vs. objective beauty standards.

“eight today 8.5 8 8.5 I'm a 10 seven eight 6.5 uh I'd say 7.5 to 8 four... I I used to say six I'm a five in front of all these beautiful women how could I ever not humble myself down to a four”

QuoteRosie discloses her body count is approximately 50-60.

“probably somewhere between 50 to 60”

OtherBrian refuses to rebook Gabby or Shannon after they flaked on the show day-of, calling it a breach of commitment. Misty reads Gabby's text message (about her dating situation, not an apology), which Brian dismisses.

“I'm not considering them again for future shows because if you're going to do that to us there's there's no guarantee that you're not going to just flake last minute again”

Topics Discussed

Guest introductions and relationship statuses

Brian introduces panel: Rosie (32, patient care advocate/vlogger, single 2.5yr, ex-fat acceptance), Farha (24, content creator/OnlyFans, single 1.5yr/fabstinent), Miss D. Marie/Misty (24, actress/model, single 4yr), Kimberly (22, caregiver, single 1.5yr), Madison (19, SBCC/Whatever staff, in relationship 1yr3mo), J'Quan (30, behavioral scientist/coach/author, single), Mason Gregoire (27, mechanical engineer/virgin/powerlifter, single), Andrew Wilson (39, The Crucible, married).

Three guests cancelled day-of; show discussion

Brian explains three originally scheduled guests (Gabby, Shannon, and a third) flaked on the day of taping. Gabby cancelled for a paid Nike modeling shoot. Shannon had logistical issues getting a ride (was going to ride with Gabby). Brian vents about flake culture affecting production. Misty (Miss D. Marie) had planned to give Gabby and Shannon a ride. Brian states he will not rebook Gabby or Shannon.

Plus-size dating: would you date a plus-size man/woman

Initially a plus-size panel theme. Rosie (self-described 'super fat') discusses logistical challenges of dating another plus-size person. Explains the fat spectrum (small fats, mid fats, large fats, super fats, infinity fats). Discusses her history in fat acceptance movement (since 2013) and her departure. Now pursuing health improvement; approved for Mounjaro. Disclosed feederism grooming story (stalker, 2012-2021). Discussion of feederism vs. death feederism. Misty discusses attraction to athletic men despite being plus-size herself.

Rosie Genene's feederism and BBW party history

Rosie discloses being groomed into feederism by a stalker in 2012-2013. Explains feederism (sexual kink around feeding to gain weight) and death feederism (feeding to the point of death). Her viral TikTok on the topic on We're All Insane podcast with D'Ora. Separately discloses attending BBW (Big Beautiful Women) parties and swinger parties in Atlanta-area Georgia during a breakup in 2019. States she had up to 10 partners in one night during this period. Body count ~50-60.

Brian's and panelists' preferences in partners

Extended round of each panelist stating dating preferences. Brian: slight preference for Asian/white women, petite, natural (no plastic surgery, no makeup, no perfume), introverted/modest, low body count. Farha: intelligent man, no porn/strip clubs, high sexual discipline. Misty: athletic, ~5'10" minimum height, intelligent, spiritual. Kimberly: wants dates/activities, someone serious about relationships. Madison: committed, honest, loyal. J'Quan: cute face, nice waist-hip ratio, emotionally stable, high conscientiousness, introverted types. Mason: devout Christian, marriage-minded, virgin or willing to repent, wants large family. Andrew Wilson: 'unicorn' — woman who prioritizes duty over self-interest.

Plastic surgery debate

Brian explains why he prefers natural women: associates cosmetic surgery with body dysmorphia, vanity, high maintenance, and misrepresentation of genetics for offspring. Andrew Wilson asks if Brian would recommend surgery to a hypothetical plain-looking daughter to boost her confidence. Brian argues getting in the gym is far more effective and authentic. Andrew frames surgery preference as signaling women prioritizing self over duty. Discussion of breast implants, BBL, lipo, veneers, rhinoplasty.

OnlyFans ethics and capitalism debate

Farha makes claim 'there is no ethical consumption under capitalism.' Andrew Wilson debates her on the logical implications: is OnlyFans consumption then unethical or merely morally neutral? Farha clarifies she misspoke — meant to say the ethical landscape is more complex. Extended philosophical debate on whether ethical positives exist under capitalism. Andrew and Farha debate strawmanning, moral absolutes, and Farha's dyslexia affecting her phrasing.

Body shaming as a societal tool

Andrew Wilson defends body shaming as a societal corrective mechanism to disincentivize obesity. Rosie argues shame is harmful and encourages eating disorder mindsets. Andrew cites shame's historical role in maintaining social standards. Farha asks whether random cruel comments (gorlock, hippo) are really a societal correction tool or just sadism. Brian admits he retitled a past episode 'gorlock the Destroyer' for searchability, not as a societal statement. Extended debate over whether public figures promoting body acceptance should be subject to public critique.

Confidence vs. modesty in women

Rosie asks whether confidence or modesty is more important in women from a male perspective. Brian: prefers modest women who approach him nervously over confidently. Andrew Wilson: confidence is a more masculine trait; men look for feminine traits (modesty) in women. J'Quan agrees, adding that church/clergy focus on male pride issues. Mason concurs. Farha and Rosie push back on gendering of traits.

Mandatory paternity testing debate

Brian asks whether mandatory paternity testing would help or hurt women. Andrew Wilson: strongly for it; required his own wife to get one regardless of trust. Mason: agrees, notes accidental hospital baby mix-ups. Rosie: concerned about government overreach but acknowledges it could help with child support enforcement. Farha: objects philosophically — adds a bureaucratic layer, prefers individual autonomy. Andrew dismantles her trust-based objections. Brian cites disputed statistic that 33% of children may not belong to the father they believe is their father.

Self-ratings (looks 1-10)

Brian asks each guest to rate their looks. Ratings (in order): Rosie: 8. Farha: 8.5. Misty: 10. J'Quan (implied). Mason: 10. Kimberly: 7. Madison: 8. Andrew Wilson: 4. Brian: 5. Debate erupts over Rosie and Misty's ratings. Andrew Wilson challenges them on subjective vs. objective attractiveness standards. Rosie defends her 8 as self-esteem rather than comparison. Misty defends 10 as self-love philosophy. Andrew argues ratings must account for external perceptions.

Body count round and double standards

Brian goes around table asking body counts. Rosie: 50-60. Farha: 0 (disputed by Andrew, citing her scripted TikTok skits). Misty: 8-9 (Brian estimate; she declined). Kimberly: did not clearly state. Madison: did not disclose. J'Quan: 'lost count; been around the block' (previously said 50-60 in another context). Mason: 0 (virgin). Andrew Wilson: married/declined. Brian: 8-9. Extended debate on whether body count double standards are justified. Rosie argues the double standard exists but doesn't make it wrong. Andrew argues it is entirely rational and evolutionarily grounded.

Patriarchy, white male privilege, feminism debate

Brian asks whether panelists consider themselves feminist. Rosie: no (not exactly); uses systemic definition. Farha: yes by Brian's most generous definition (advocates for women's rights). Misty: mixed. Kimberly: no. Madison: not labelled. J'Quan and Andrew: no. Debate over whether feminism fights for equality or only for women's benefit. Brian argues feminists would not support conscription for women. Andrew argues feminists' core principle of egalitarianism is internally inconsistent given their opposition to outcomes that don't benefit women. Debate over racism toward white people and sexism toward men (systemic power definitions). Reaction to memes about male privilege (D-Day, oil rigs, power line workers). Andrew argues men maintain civilization's infrastructure.

Dating deal breakers reaction (Reddit post)

Brian reacts to a Reddit post from a 29-year-old man listing his dating deal breakers: cheated in the past, takes recreational drugs regularly, incurable STD, in a situationship/FWB, poor hygiene, sex worker (online or in person), extreme political views, single mother. Panel discusses whether the list is too strict. Rosie objects to single mother as blanket deal breaker. Farha objects to cheating-in-past as absolute. Andrew defends the list. J'Quan notes past cheating is a leading predictor of future cheating.

Can you be sexist against men / racist against white people

Brian asks the panel. Rosie: women cannot be sexist to men under systemic definition; racism requires systemic power. Farha: believes you can be sexist to men; applies systemic-power definition to racism. Misty: can be sexist to men (no); can be racist to white people (yes, location-dependent). Kimberly: cannot be sexist to men; can be racist to white people. Madison and Andrew: yes to both. Brian posits: could Barack Obama as president have held racist views toward a white homeless person? Misty says yes, some would value the white homeless man above the black president. Extended debate on systemic power, epigenetics, and the moral equivalence of bigotry vs. racism.

Reactions to dangerous male jobs videos

Brian and Andrew react to videos of male-dominated dangerous jobs: iron workers on high-rises, oil rig workers, power line workers in snow (China), helicopter-attached power line workers. Discussion of how infrastructure jobs are almost entirely male-staffed. Andrew argues this constitutes men sustaining civilization's physical infrastructure with their lives while women benefit from it. Panel debates whether these men are forced to do these jobs vs. voluntary. Mason argues 2,200 years of history shows women cannot maintain infrastructure without men.

Closing discussion and wrap-up

Brian wraps up. Final discussion: Gabby's message read by Misty (she sent texts about dating situation rather than an apology; Brian uninterested). Brian on commitment ethics — argues once you commit to an appearance you should honor it even if a better opportunity arises. Brief discussion of upcoming Thursday debate show. Brian thanks panel and closes.

Transcript

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Andrew Wilsoncould be other convictions which are here that they adhere to now most popularly what I see online with people who refer to as incels is that their standards are extremely high because they have those religious convictions

Farha Khanthey can't find a woman who can meet those standards why would they go byy a prostitute if their religious convictions prevent them from doing it be an Insel because you can't find a woman who matches his values that's literally voluntary that's like me

Andrew Wilsonsaying I'm an Insel because I can't find a guy who six foot makes a million dollars a year and wants to date me that's ridiculous when you're talking about uh somebody who is uh in celent by

Andrew Wilsonchoice would you say then right or I'm sorry um yeah yeah celibate by choice if you're just talking anybody can just who can just go go have sex with anybody

Andrew Wilsonright you can go get a prostitute or or this type of thing okay obviously a person's going to have sex with another person is going to go for their preferences right isn't that generally what they're going to do to choose if they're yes and like we're saying

Farha Khanthere's two different metrics for male and female preferences but suddenly You're Now using the default as the male preference so even if he doesn't want to a girl because she has different religious values why is that difference than me saying even though guys are propositioning me on Reddit they're not

Andrew Wilsonthe type of guy I'm looking for so therefore I can still de myself a fem cell yeah I'm well I'm assuming it both ways so I assume it on the other way too that you believe fem cells exist that well yeah I'm not said you didn't well I have a I have a different I have a

Farha Khandifferent definition you think fils exist if it's from the religious connotation yeah just religious well I have a different not from the idea of yes I could this guy but I won't enjoy it I won't be attracted to him it'll feel very all those things could be true but it would be from a religious

Farha Khanstandpoint no but you can have that without being religious yeah generally speaking a religious I have feelings like that and I'm not religious so if I'm very unattractive and I can only guys who are like disgusting to me or but that's not for religious reasons

Andrew Wilsonthat I'm unattracted to them I wouldn't I still be a fem cell by your definition if you were super like super ugly you mean like just a super yeah I mean I guess so you think the person's I'm talking in generalities here so I'm just saying generally that's what I would fit

Andrew Wilsonin that criteria wait what's your question so you think the the appearance is the majority factor of whether or not someone is an Insel usually for a man it's more than their appearance usually it's the inside I think I think that there could be there's two there's two

Miss D. Mariecategories here yeah incels that look just like any one of you guys and they're feeling like they don't have sex and the reason why is because we're so turned off by their inside and the first thing that comes out of their mouth we couldn't possibly CL doing anything with

Brian Atlasthem yeah I'm not clear well okay there's first off I my sense of what an incel is is it's involuntarily celibate so this is

Brian Atlassomebody I I would argue that and maybe Andrew this is where I disagree if say you're a Christian man and you're waiting until marriage that would I would consider

Andrew Wilsonthat to be voluntary yeah I have a hard time with that because then far like would you apply that to sa so well wait a second they're they're involuntary why couldn't they just go sa a check right

Andrew Wilsonthey could do that and then it wouldn't be they would be involuntarily equivalency why because sex and aay are not comparable no but what I'm saying is is that if it's if it's not just a

Andrew Wilsonbarrier based around personalization right and preferences then you're looking at the same thing from the religious to if you were looking at it from the the and the argument against the religious is well no this is voluntary because you could

Andrew Wilsonjust go get a prostitute it's like well no it's involuntary they want to do it right but they have a barrier from doing it just like the lack of the the sa portion would be the same thing a barrier from doing it I genuinely don't

Farha Khanthink a lion share of incels are opting out of booking a hooker for religious reasons I'm pretty sure a large number of porn consumers are in cells so if they were opting out of sex for religious reasons they wouldn't be like consuming so much por yeah so you don't think that people who are heavily

Andrew Wilsonreligious would would like to have sex that they might have those wants to do that's not what involuntary means yeah I think but this is where I'm drawing a distinction with you because if your argument for no that's not involuntary

Andrew Wilsonit means if if if you say involuntary they could just go get you know a a sex worker then why couldn't I just respond by saying well if it's invol why couldn't they just go assaulted chick get the same result how would it be involuntary for because if I call

Farha Khansomeone home I'm saying yeah they could squat somewhere technically illegally but I would still consider them homeless what does that have to do with what I said it's an analogy yeah but how's the analogy apply because doing something unlawfully doesn't make it doesn't now

Farha Khanmake it sex it well wait a second wait wait back up what what is it then I'm saying if they're an incel it's just unlawful sex right my point is if they're an incel and they're complaining that they just can't get sex they can

Farha Khanbook a hooker but that's typically not what they're looking they're looking for a level of emotional iny that's my but this what I'm saying there's a barrier they're both what you would consider one's a legally the other one's legal yeah but but they're both barriers is

Farha Khanthe point people I don't think people are opting out a hookers for religious reasons why you don't think so no why maybe some are but I'm saying an inel an incel who's jacking off the every day

Andrew Wilsonisn't now Drawing the Line at PR created two different categories of incel for you I'm saying that one I believe that both of them are involuntarily talking about the actual incel Community the people on Reddit

Andrew Wilsonwe're not talk about is an actual Mar to heard have you ever heard of The tradcast Who self ID as incels for instance the reason that they self ID as incels because they say yeah sure we would love to be rolling around and

Farha Khanhaving tons of sex with women but we don't right because we have this Exel so would he be an incel if he struggles to find a virgin like if every single woman at his college has had sex and his standard is he wants to marry another virgin is he now an incel no that's voluntarily selib it because you've set

Mason Gregoirea standard for yourself kind of interesting I I I might be getting on board with what you're saying Andrew because so not exp not even yeah well no I'm

Mason Gregoiretrying to sus this out in my head I'm thinking about it like okay yeah so uh there is a law stating that essay is illegal right so in the if I'm looking

Mason Gregoireat a coming from a Biblical framework as a Christian uh I determine that the Bible is my foundation for Morality and

Mason Gregoireis how is law in my mind so just the same way that uh essay is legal in I mean it's it's illegal in the Bible but it's illegal in our

Mason Gregoiresociety it is to co-op the uh verbiage it is illegal in God's mind in God's eye to say to have sex before marriage right so I actually kind of agree so you can't

Andrew Wilsonactually alleviate what you want even though you want to because there's this barrier but you're choosing to to to abide by the barri but you would be doing the same thing with that's the point it's a choice Cho not to does it

Farha Khanjust end at religious convictions can I say female dating strategy tells me I should only guys who make more than me and because I earn a lot it's hard to find those guys they're foring fem cell well the the the relig fast doesn't make your arguments it doesn't my arguments

Farha Khanbeing correct arre what's your argument I bet you can't even repeat it I think I can do it I was saying why are you just drawing the Bible to be akin to law but why can't I say my preferences could be akin to law too so suddenly I'm a fem

Andrew Wilsonyou could yeah yeah okay so I'm a femel cuz I can't find a guy who makes more money than me saying that you could you could make two different categories here right but you would still have to categorize them so is it involuntary I

Andrew Wilsonguess what we're really discussing is what do we mean by involuntary you think that it's voluntary absent barrier and so do I so I don't know where we're arguing okay so far as far as just real quick though if you have sa that's a

Miss D. Marieyou're going to get a physical repercussion for that you deciding you deciding to abide by the Bible you're not going to get a physical rep rep we believe you would yeah that's that's the

Miss D. Mariepoint your belief and ual physical harm happening to you is not the same you're not going to go to jail God is not going to put you in jail but you could also let's let's Invision for a second that

Andrew Wilsonyou knew you could do it and could get away with it and not go to jail okay it would still be a barrier the absent consent would still be a barrier and so you wouldn't do it the chance of you actually being able to go to jail versus

Andrew Wilsonnot are two different very big things yeah has nothing to do with the point how does it not because what I'm saying is let's remove that for a second that you would even you're deciding that the Bible that is the is the top thing that's going you're deciding that the law is the top thing that's prevents the

Miss D. Marienot no I'm not I'm just saying as far as overall you can believe in the Bible that's fine but no matter what Bible or not you still got to respect the law so you're you're encompassing you don't have to respect the law as far as like if you're going to be law-abiding or

Andrew Wilsoneven just of any laws right so your choice is to respect the law but everyone has to be under the law not everyone has to be under the Bible yeah but your choice is to respect both mhm you don't have to respect the law you choose to respect the law nothing

Andrew Wilsonstopping you from going through stop nothing stopping you from grabbing that difference is the repercussions at the end of the day are different yes there might be that there's uh you have

Andrew Wilsona perception you saying that you have a perception of a repercussion distinction fine we can remove that barrier by saying if we could assume that there was no repercussion for you would you just start saying people there is yeah but

Andrew Wilsonbut that's not the purpose of explaining this this way the purpose is to show you that even if that barrier was removed you still wouldn't do it there is a barrier which is is there whether it's religious or it's legal these two

Miss D. Mariebarriers still very much exist inside of your mind which is the preventative measure for doing the action but okay so if you sexually assault someone you're then affecting that person's life if you Asain abstain for sex because of a

Andrew Wilsonreligious belief you're not affecting someone else's life what if you were to uh to essay what if you were to essay a chick who was in a who was in a coma who was in a coma and would never know and it was impossible for her to get there was a man who was raping a lady in sorry

Farha Khanbut you wouldn't cosign on it I think we actually agree right you wouldn't cosign on it no it's awful right that's my whole point barrier no I think we agree I think we agree I was having rebuttal to Brian saying that like oh incels exist only for men but never for women because someone will always you and

Farha KhanI was saying in theory you could someone as a man but it's not to these you know what I mean there's that barrier there so I was saying even for women even though some guys would prob you so here's why I would make the two distinct category so I think you would

Andrew Wilsonagree with this too so in the distinct category one with the men I think it's much easier for men to be in that one category of incel right whereas for

Andrew Wilsonwomen it's not very it would actually be difficult to be in that category whereas on the religious end I would say that it could be equal so okay what about what about this what about what about this

Brian Atlasso let's say you have a man and a woman neither are religious they're both physically unattractive yeah they want to have they

Brian Atlasdon't care about they just want to have sex immediately like that night or whatever or within the a short period of time say a week I would argue

Brian Atlasthat almost any woman if she was so inclined could get sex whereas it's not clear to me if any man could just go out and I agree I totally agree I agree but that's typically not what fem cell refers to like I don't think fem cels

Farha Khanare actually arguing I can't anybody they're saying I can't anybody who would care same way those men in theory those insults could each other but they're not going to be attracted to each other and enjoy it on but if definition of fem cell is a

Andrew Wilsonfemale in actually need you to repeat that why you didn't hear her no I I didn't she she has Meth mouth you got to talk slow so I can understand what you're saying the reason I talk so fast is because I keep getting cut off it's

Farha Khannot to try and cut no I know I'm just saying in general but anyways my point was yes a a fem cell could get sex from anybody okay but the point was um men in theory those incels they could get sex

Farha Khanfrom each other in theory but they won't enjoy it each other yes in theory yeah he's talking about the opposite sex no I know but I'm saying the same way a femel might not enjoy having sex or even find any like little bit of attraction to the

Farha Khanguy who's propositioning her on Reddit those guys won't enjoy having sex with each other so that's why I'm saying it's two different metul male female sexuality is incredibly different ridiculous you get what I'm saying yeah so let me just let me go ahead I'm sorry

Mason Gregoireno yeah I I was just about to ask so does the AC of sex require that there's an there's there's enjoyment in it I'm saying fem cell has a slightly

Mason Gregoiredifferent an incel I'm not actually sure what that okay well it's involuntarily celibate which means no sex regardless of how you feel about it if you enjoy it or not if you're having sex you're not

Mason Gregoirean incel right sex as an incel with other no I okay so if if you if your goal is to find sex and you are able to find it

Farha Khanthat is by definition not celibate regardless if you enjoy it or not yes and like I said you could find it in Nevada but obviously we're talking about certain barriers and guys want it from a

Andrew Wilsonwoman who may enthusiastically consenting and a woman maybe wants it from a guy who isn't just looking at her as a whole so that was my only point I don't understand I don't understand why each one of those criticisms couldn't be applied back so you say you say incels could have it with each other well so

Farha Khancould fem cells yeah so I don't understand how the criticisms wouldn't be equal it's not equal and do you agree that fem cells exist even though they could in theory someone and inel

Andrew Wilsoncould in theory someone I would say I would say by this criteria though what he's trying to draw is that when he says not exist right be the same way that you and I would say something in the Commons

Andrew Wilsondoesn't mean there's none who who exist at all on planet Earth but rather if you make the comparison between the amount of male versus female it's overwhelmingly going to be male versus female when it comes to this you would

Farha Khanagree with that in that category I would but you would also agree that male and females look at sex entirely differently so when someone says I'm a fem cell you understand that she's not saying nobody will me she's saying nobody maybe I'm having difficulty finding someone

Andrew Wilsonwho will me and actually ask me my name so so okay but if that's the case then they have just changed the meaning from how we mean it so it doesn't mean anything yeah I don't think anyone thinks they have identical definitions

Andrew Wilsonyeah I know but from our definition you would agree we're correct that men have a harder time procing sex yes yeah and that and that

Andrew Wilsonthe incel from our perspective our okay then the fem cell yes okay yeah I would agree with that too okay but the same basis of Attraction I because it's

Farha Khanit's typical Progressive pedantry and you have to like literally peel back all the layers until you get to where you need to no it's not it's because we're talking about sex that it's we're talking about sex they wouldn't be disgusted by and like I said the guys could in theory each other but they

Farha Khanwould feel disgusted by that if they're straight and the woman the Fel couldn't the some random like redditor proposer but she might not enjoy it that was my point Brian was her he left so I

Brian Atlashad to direct it you okay well okay when I think fem cell like I think female incel because I know there's this definition of fem cell where it's like well I'm just not finding the right guy

Brian Atlasthat I want to have sex with and to me when I think of Insel it's just somebody who wants to have sex but like can't there's not all these strings attached to it there's not all these terms the

Brian Atlasguy doesn't have to be some magical unicorn like I'm sure most men who are incels would be happy to have sex with a woman who's even probably below their standards or whatever that might be

Brian Atlasso all right okay um and I do think when it comes to incels first off it's kind of the euphemism treadmill where a word starts to lose its its meaning like Nazi

Brian Atlasand fascist oh yeah where it just ends up being used as a generic insult rather than a word that that has actual meaning uh I do think incels they get to they a lot of times they get made fun of I

Brian Atlasactually think they need empathy understanding and compassion not hate and um more isolation because you certainly don't make a scared dog more calm by beating him with a a stick and also to your point um you said that it's

Brian Atlasnot because of their physical attractiveness but because of their personality uh and perhaps there I've seen some insult well let me just finish my point um often times there's this idea that these incels are just uh

Brian Atlascertainly there are men there are women hating incels misogynistic incels absolutely however it's not clear to me if misogyny it's not clear to me if misogyny is the cause of their lack of

Brian Atlassexual connection because there are plenty of misogynistic men who are highly sexually successful I don't think it has to be that though it could it could be simple as like I don't like myself oh I mean sure I guess but like

Brian Atlasthat also is unattractive I mean I'm sure there's plenty of like some of the most toxic women haters there are are probably who act like towards every women or have yeah I'm I'm saying like there's probably like more than

Miss D. Mariephysical that they're not getting said yes to like it's not going to be just physical because the way women work genuinely we fall in love with the inside even if the outside is important I mean yeah okay you can you can go for

Miss D. Marieinstance you can go to school with someone or go to be at work at someone who's definitely not your type and you keep seeing them over and over again you see the cute little jokes and then you kind of start seeing them as being cute and funny because their inside made you be like actually like I'm kind of digging that like weird nose thing he

Miss D. Mariedoes or his ears are a little big but I actually kind of like that part about him so we just we we work differently in that way sure and so I would say that it wouldn't have to necessarily be a man who hates a woman but it could be like

Miss D. Mariewell he could always be talking bad about himself or maybe he's level on the Spectrum where he doesn't know how to communicate and like talk to people there's many different things that it could be but I would say that it probably has to do more with the inside than just the out yeah I'm actually

Miss D. Marietrying to remember how we got on to that cuz I think I was asking you about your celibacy and then roster and you asked about incels you said that you were what's the definition of in CU you said recycling bodies yeah

SPEAKER_07oh yeah that's oh great okay all right all right um and you were like no no I don't like that language it's I don't like it under the perview of my Progressive analysis I don't feel like that that's how people really analyze

Farha Khanthe situ that type of right I was say that's exactly that's exactly there was a Civic word I was avoiding using but I was saying it's like kind of a weird way to view romantic relationships

Farha Khanhow so oh God are we going it's just not it's just not romantic wrong with it I just thought it was funny yeah like it's just it was ironic yeah it's just a descriptor yeah it's not necessarily

Rosie Genenewrong it's just kind of depersonalized maybe it was just funny it was how you personalized it I think that's negative or positive it's just an observation cator oh it's a calculator way of VI

Brian Atlasokay all right all right good talk all right I have a note here from Kimberly uh Kimberly you say I feel like most men want to be taken care of instead of them taking care of the ladies as far as the guys I've dated I've always been the one

Brian Atlasto plan pay for the dates or I've put in too much effort and not the same energy in return it's always a what you doing message instead of taking the initiative to plan a date These Guys these guys are

Miss D. Mariejust honestly kind of childish you got to raise your standards she got to raise her standard she's allowing that's her right there oh you you got you got to you got to raise your standards I'm glad you're here you got to you got to stop

Brian Atlasyou control that that's why I haven't like been talking to guys recently wait so reminder you're you're 22 correct yeah um but you said your longest

Brian Atlasrelationship for was for two years so your two two-year relationship is that how that to your relationship looked no that one

Kimberlywas well it just didn't end well but I don't want to get into that but um what I was saying sorry what I was saying is that that's why why I didn't that's why

Brian AtlasI don't MD can you talk to guys anymore your mic wait hold on let me see what's going on here yeah your mic's way too shifted it's block your mic Maddie your

Kimberlymic is blocking her goad okay um yeah well from the past two relationships that I've been in

Kimberlyrelationships um one of them it went well the thing was that when I met him he was barely coming from

Kimberlya different state and he didn't have much here so I helped him out in the beginning I had my own car and he would use it and stuff but he ended up cheating on me anyways and up

KimberlyGood Times yeah he ended up cheating on me and I found out cuz I went on Facebook oh and he had PO he had he had posted a picture and I was going through

Kimberlythe liks and I seen some girl had harded his picture and um so I clicked on her profile and then I seen a picture of them too together on her header so how

Brian Atlasmany how many of the men that you've recently been dating have been you've been taking care of them uh you've been paying cuz you said most men want to be

Brian Atlastaken care of and and that you've uh dated men that you're planning dates and you're paying for the dates yeah and you put in too much effort so what and that

Kimberlywas my also uh the last guy I was talking to um basically when I met him he was is leaving his

KimberlyBM and BM baby mama okay I didn't know there was like a acronym for so there was a lot of drama because she didn't like me and like it I was like it's not

Kimberlymy fault that he started texting me you know he had told me that they weren't together and they weren't together so I so you were paying for him how do you feel about keeping a man who like cheats on his girl for you though no he wasn't

Kimberlywith her no he wasn't with her when we were talking he wasn't with her um but yeah he would like he had to come to Ontario and I live in India so I would be the one coming and going or he would

Rosie Genenebe wait can you show your nails again they're fire cute how do you how do you wipe oh God okay wait do you have to do the the mitt method yeah you do you do the mitt that's what I've heard I've

Brian Atlasnever been a long nail girl but they call wait hold on put your hands show us your you should play piano god damn you're not supposed to have long nails to play the piano yeah I know but you

Kimberlygot long fingers I don't know I did I have to wipe these old people but what the yeah wait you do what caregiving oh okay you wipe old people

Brian Atlasyeah that's what said like a like a nurse's aid yeah like a babysitter but for older okay so all right so um oh wait did you answer if you've had have

Brian Atlasyou uh roster did you guys answer that we did did we go around go check it out shitty memory okay uh all right so you

Kimberlyalso wrote that you feel like I'm kind of both a feminist and traditional yeah because I feel like um if I want to have a job like I want to

Kimberlywork I want to make my own money but at the same time like I I want to be I if I find the right guy I would be at you want stay home stay if I find the right

Kimberlyperson but if not so okay do you want to get married M that's a good question it's cuz before

KimberlyI would say yeah but now I'm just like I don't think there's going to like you don't think there's a guy who's going to want to marry you or no I just don't

Brian Atlasthink that there's a guy that would because I guess I'm picky you're picky yeah um okay you think find a guy

Kimberlyhow are you how are you picky well like I said in the beginning I don't like going out to like clubs and stuff so I wouldn't want picky though I don't think that's picky really per but how how else

Brian Atlasare you picky I'm sure there's more than just that we talking looks no I mean did we talk about did you say hi thing did you did we go around on that I've dated shorter

Kimberlyshorter guys than me well I've not not really dated but I've I'm 5'7 okay did you say you have a I forgot if you mention your hyp preference no I don't

Kimberlyhave a hype preference well I've dated shorter guys than me how are you picking I I don't know I just I guess

Kimberlyum I don't know guys when I'm with somebody they just see I asked them for stuff and they don't such such as

Rosie Genenewhat but it's not really picky huh it's just that I was going to ask you do you think you're picky or do you just talking about your standards what are your standards cuz there I think there is a

Miss D. Mariedifference or do you mean that so far you've met guys and there's been something about them that you haven't liked and so you feel like you're picky it's probably that I don't like it

Kimberlybut they don't think it's a issue so that so they think that I'm picky but such as such as what like um when I was with the when I was talking to this one

Kimberlyguy I would ask him could he not like be following other girls on Instagram or liking their pictures while we were talking but he was like oh my mom said that I have to

Kimberlyexplore my options I was like I was like your mom told you you had to explore your options I was like

Kimberlyokay that's fine but you can go I told him that's fine you can go explore his options and I I wasn't expecting the mom told me to was not told me he literally

Kimberlysaid my mom said that I have to explore my options and I you guys laughing because you think he made that up or do you think you're of course he made it of you laughing because she probably she

Miss D. Mariemight have and like he's doing it like what is what is the situ funny okay so you're

Rosie Geneneregardless a semi uh related question on that topic for the men at the table do you guys think that confidence modesty is a more important trait in your dating life from a woman like I'm just and I'm

Brian Atlasgenuinely just curious modesty modesty here's I mean here's one way to uh perhaps look at

Brian Atlasthis if a girl were to approach me I don't know like she wanted to hit on me or something uh not that that might be the best way to go about things but

Brian Atlasuh often times I think women would prefer a guy to step to them in a really confident manner versus like maybe their eye contact isn't great or they're a little shy or bashful I would say for me

Brian Atlasthough I would prefer a girl to step to me and she's kind of like a little nervous about it than if she was like hi a little bit both well it's it's

Andrew Wilsonbecause of she shyly walks up to you I'm sure Mason will agree with me on this too so from from like the Christian standpoint we would consider these are it's a neutral trait confidence right

Andrew Wilsonbut we would say that men have it way more than women have it or at least that something that is push for men to have right as that sort of trait Society I absolutely AG yeah as that sort of trait

Andrew Wilsonso we're not looking for masculine traits in women if we were looking are you attributing confidence to mascul hang almost done okay I was just sorry yes I'm I'm attributing that as a more

Andrew Wilsonmasculine trait than modesty so okay that's the point right it's not it's neutral trait but it's a more masculine trait than modesty is so if you were to talk to you know like uh priests or you

Andrew Wilsonwere to talk to clergy or things like this the things that they have a hard time with men on are things of like matters of Pride matters of uh of that type of thing you know what I mean so we would we would maybe attribute it more

Andrew Wilsonthat way too we're not looking for masculine traits in women we're looking for feminine traits in women I guess I just don't like gender those types of traits like from my viewpoint it's a neutral I'm just saying you can look at both traits though and see which one

Andrew Wilsonsociet you know that we would attribute towards towards which sex more right yeah that's interesting perspective speaking of masculine and feminine you're attracting feminine

Brian Atlasmen yeah that that checks out wait do you have a type like what's your type white guys Latino guys yeah you don't

Kimberlyyou wouldn't dat the white guy I mean ask for a friend I haven't I would but I never have to beon you've never dated leg guy no I've really only dated Mexicans to be honest Mexican guys but

Kimberlythat's because that's any black guys in there on ja it's because no I've never dated a black no I've never what about like Native Americans any native Chumash

Brian Atlasno no chh Mexican Mexican is American you have a Catholic upbringing mhm yeah yeah kind of figured yeah yeah okay all right here

Brian Atlaswe have some notes Here I need to uh oh we had a video from you that we've got to react to going be interesting oh well we already kind of hid it it's the it was the inso topic but I mean it let's just uh let's pull it up let's pull it up cuz we were just talking

Rosie Geneneabout let bring the subject back let's bring it back uh Nick if you're able to get that this was this was posted to be like a funny bit it wasn't it was meant to be lightheartedly sa there's already

Rosie Genenea disclaimer so I already I'm just saying the reaction wasn't fully that when I got reposted on red pill internet but um um that was it was I was just like trying to be jokey all disclaimer

Rosie Geneneall right go ahead I'm just saying that's what it was oh I've seen this at home no that's perf so no because trust me I have met a mini incel and they all but most even if they are they can bring pretend they're a lawyer they can pretend they're a therapist they can

SPEAKER_02pretend it's most people that like hate you on behind if you're hiding behind a screen and like and you have zero followers and it's a hidden profile I just refer to anyone like that inel inel in exactly like they can cosplay that in

SPEAKER_02their daytime but that's who they are at heart is that's what you're taking your time to do oh it's pathetic yeah okay I could never great great um I love that anyway that I can see that being a Tik

Rosie GeneneTok clip what is an insect and there it is please hello got my headphones flying off my goodness the drama of it all okay I very quickly realized I wanted to be

Rosie Genenewith my ex and we had a lot more in common met on Reddit um actually my ex

Rosie Geneneironically was like my biggest Tipper on um did CH website but I didn't know I think she did cut no you K Nick you skipped Way Forward dud oh yeah it's on

Rosie Genenea different topic yeah it's on X and stock we the the clip starts at 3320 you must you must have skipped forward somehow yeah it was at 35 what I was a little

Rosie Geneneconfused I thought I thought it was I thought it was just a also for the video can you put us in the corner is there in

Brian Atlasthe corner you said 3420 right no 33 3320 what what I don't know why where did you start the the time it should

Brian Atlashave been 3320 I didn't I didn't touch it okay just but it no but it Midway through it skipped forward go ahead 3320 yeah started at 3

Rosie Genene3320 beam me up Scotty in the corner yeah this one yeah that's better yeah yeah yeah what does this mean what does this

Rosie Genenemean yeah so an incel is just like someone who is involuntarily celibate and it just essentially it has morphed into its own slang term that's kind of

Rosie Genenedescribes that loser sitting on Reddit for 23 hours a day um with cheetah dust and empty Mountain Dew cans all around them and it just has a real stank smell

Rosie Genenethat is involved with these people because I'm just going to pay you an image and like the Fedora is a little crusty and the the beard the the neck beard is strong but the facial hair is weak and there's a B Spot in the back

Rosie Geneneand you could just and you can just see the Fedora covered it just dear life and he's sitting there mut muttering under

Rosie Genenehis breath about how uh like Jessica Alba's J you that's what you're talking about yeah like bottom of the barrel that was a really good description thank you just like I just wanted to paint a

Rosie Genenelittle word picture for the people at home no that's perf so no because trust me I have met a mini incel and they all but most even if they are they can pretend they're a lawyer they can pretend they're a therapist they can pretend it's most people that like hate

SPEAKER_02you online behind if you're hiding behind a screen and like and you have zero followers and it's a hidden profile I just refer to anyone like that inel inel exactly like they can cosplay that in their daytime but that's who they are

Andrew Wilsonat heart is that's what you're taking your time to do oh it's pathetic yeah okay I could never great great um I love that I did I did just want to want to say this one thing if you don't mind

Andrew Wilsonright at the end there you said I would never what were you referring to I would never behave toward people the way that incels behave toward me cuz it sounded like you were saying I would never like

Rosie GeneneI would never sleep with somebody like that that's what it sounded like to me oh no I wasn't referencing like sleeping with so I mean I would not want to date an incel

Andrew Wilsoncorrect because the people that have been the the the off here did that sound like she was like I would never likeone I would never like behave that

Brian Atlasway that's what intend the whole the whole incumbent of but but related to what I already said this whole euphemism treadmill thing I mean even that I don't know her name the host of the podcast

Brian Atlasshe said it's D'Or she said it's Insel is just a term for anybody that talks online and has no followers well she said the thing with what's wrong with fedoras

Rosie Genenehello the M intern wear it better than anyone clearly lady I mean with the bald spot though what's wrong with bald spot I mean look I get roasted all day every

Brian Atlasday for existing as a fat woman on the internet body positivity mean I'm I'm more down with body neutrality but that's just me we shouldn't shame men for balding it's natural

Miss D. Marieyeah and does the neck beard at least connect I think she's clapping back to what they've already said to her she's this is not like everything look my ti

Rosie Genenecomment YouTube comments just I'm I'm allowed to make a joke at their expense once or twice if they dedicate hours of their time to try to tear me down because they can't handle seeing someone

Rosie Genenelike me be confident in myself because it makes them question why they can't be confident within themselves when they fit in the Americanized standards of C and whatever and I am an outlier I'm

Rosie Genenesomeone that they wish to be uh not seen nor heard and I put myself out there and I hold myself to a standard of what I

Andrew Wilsonthink is a good human being and yeah so how I proceed with that so just just give you a little push back here yes I can agree with a portion of what you say the first portion of what

Andrew Wilsonyou said is if these guys are going to continuously make fun of me right and this is the group group it's coming from I'm going to hit back okay that's fair okay but then he kind of moved on into this whole but you see what it is is

Andrew Wilsonthat I don't deserve to have any criticism and this is all projection because this is how they really feel not how I am and it's like that's when I go I'm not so criticism is not calling me Michelin man it's not calling me gorlock

Rosie Geneneit's not making fun of my body what's not constructive about that do you think that that that encour

Rosie GeneneAndrew do you think encourages healthy behavior when it feeds into the eating disorder mindset constructive criticism the constructive criticism is not for

Andrew Wilsonyou the constructive criticism it's a shaming tactic so that everybody who sees a person like you out there trying to say it's okay and I don't consent to

Andrew WilsonSham constru I'm trying to tell you not constructive it's constructive to all of society to say I'm trying to explain anytime you're ready to let me so anyway

Andrew Wilsonyeah how this is really important to society as a shaming tactic same way that you might take a politician if you were the system for instance and and completely throw him in jail and do all kinds of horrible things to him make an

Andrew Wilsonexample to everybody else that's what shame does hang on a shaming tactic that's used in this way is to say listen if anybody else is going to come out and be like you are right and say that

Andrew Wilsonunapologetically this is this is okay this is good blah blah blah blah blah they're trying to instill a sense of shame so that if other women see that they don't go that road and instead try to do something about it so you think

Rosie Genenethat my existence is a right to be a political statement toward um other people's views of their own body and that I'm to be used you're a public

Andrew Wilsonfigure that's right you're a public figure who goes out and say and I'm an apologetic right I've slept with a with all these guys and I'm that's not my platform part of my past but yeah but

Rosie Genenepart of your platform is the whole big beautiful you know not anymore do you know my platform do you know my platform at all do you know my story at all here's the thing that's what it is

Rosie Geneneright no it's not what is it what is your platform my platform is that I have lived through a lot of experiences that have led me to be in this body and to be who I am and that I am on a journey of

Andrew Wilsonloving myself into my house yeah you're loving yourself there's no excuse for that there's no excuse because there's no excuse for it that's why you're getting shamed there's no excuse there's

Farha Khanno excuse there's no excuse for what me existing no for you to look like that what okay question everything you said could be a byproduct but do you think when a guy is saying gorlock the destroyer and when Brian titles the video like that you think he's really

Brian Atlasdoing it to like a shame tactic mitigate obesity it's a shame tactic no it's never why you got why you got throw me under the bus because you you're the one who titled it

Farha Khanthat well first off it was it was only recently changed and did you do that because you were like I want to mitigate obesity in America was that your it was it was for the clicks and

Brian Atlastheal sensationalizing everybody's searching for the everybody DMS me Brian where's the gore which one's the gorlock episode and I'm like I get 20 DMS a day Brian I can't because it was titled rage

Brian Atlasquck EO versus Chase round two there was not the Ali Al wey was not in the thumbnail so I just titled it gorlock the Destroyer makes it easier for people to find the video okay okay I made it I

Brian Atlastried to make it people are wondering Brian where's where's the the the AI video I I put in the title so people can find it I'm a nice guy I'm consider I'm trying to save people time okay so it

Farha Khancould be a byproduct my question is do you actually think that people Andrew like leaving those comments are doing with those intentions or you think it's like could you concede there's a little bit of like shot and Freud in there yeah I think that the overwhelming majority I wouldn't say all not putting everything

Andrew Wilsonin a monolith people who comment hippo trying to finish okay so do I think think do I think yeah even that comment I think is legitimate because what's the point the point is to make the

Andrew Wilsoncomparison to this big ginormous animal which you're not right it's a shaming tactic the whole goal of it is to tell the person stop the behavior of other people see what you're doing this is bad

Andrew Wilsonwe used to have shame in society it was good it's good to employ shame definitely not good they did a study I'm so sorry but they oh they did a study what was the methodology in the study they um it's on I think it's on Netflix ology can I just finish my I just want

Miss D. Marieyou to tell me the methodology I'm going tell you my statement first they did a statement never even read the study you don't know anything about the study that humans actually respond better to positive affirmations and positive encouragement rather than was the methodology for what was positive in the

Miss D. Mariestudy um they were doing like they did a um a study of like it was like a 100 humans or whatever I yeah what was the methodology for what they considered positive in the study they they had people up on stage and they like had

Miss D. Mariethem do a task and to some of them they told them they did a really good job and to the next group they told them they did a really bad job and then next time they had that that same group study come in and they encourag them to do one thing and they they've done so many of this where they encourage one and they

Miss D. Marieand don't encourage the other and the ones that they haven't encouraged after they bring them back to do the exact same thing the ones that have been encouraged those past two times Excel and the ones that have not do not theyve done plenty of studies on that well

Brian Atlasyou're saying wait humans Thrive better from positive from like all right let's move onour I'm here I'm going to read some chats I'm going to read some chats all right Andrew and Fara have the highest IQs out of everyone on the show and their philosophy debates are pretty

Brian Atlasinteresting would would be cool to see far back on The Crucible for another long formed debate did what was the wait hold on I'm going to save it for later but what was the big thing that you guys it was about rights women's suffrage oh

Brian Atlaswas that women's rights yeah women's rights is that is that a to thing you think I there's nothing in violation of to for that okay may can I make one more point about the conversation we just had I'll keep it really short but I'm going

Farha Khanto move on right right after you say it so go ahead okay so do you think that like you're saying cuz they're calling them fat or Hippo the goal is that they can actually change that behavior so it's beneficial but what about the guys who leave certain comments just calling a girl ugly and it's not related to

Farha Khanthings she can change like I feel like they stem from the same place which is why I was saying I feel like the intention tends to just be sadism yeah there's I think there's some of that yeah okay cool all right we have Bender the offender ladies do you think

Brian Atlasmandatory paternity testing would hurt or help women in today's society do you want to stay for this just this question and then I had like three Red Bulls okay do give you wings ladies do

Brian Atlasyou think mandatory paternity testing would hurt or help women in today's

Rosie Genenesociety I don't know I feel like that's such a broad question because I feel like in some ways it could be harmful but in other ways I think overall it would be

Rosie Genenehelpful in terms of you know child support and knowing it but it's it's like that's odd because it's like what's the circumstances it just like for every

Rosie Genenebirth there's a paternity test yeah yeah yeah in what ways would that be harmful yeah I was going to ask like because like if like the person is an abuser someone who's like you know doesn't

Andrew Wilsonnecessarily they don't want to be tied to the person well I mean if it's that person but do you have a right to hide paternity based on the fact that the other person's

Miss D. Marieabusive I mean I would want to do anything to get out of situation I do just because if you're abusive to me what would you do

Andrew Wilsonwith the child yeah that doesn't okay listen you don't have a right to hide the paternity from a father based upon whatever your analysises of abuse I've

Andrew Wilsonheard things as as ridiculous as this emotionally abusive which means nothing it means nothing that's crazy no it's not no it's not crazy it's not emotional

Andrew Wilsonabuse is nothing yeah it means nothing it's a subjective analysis it's subjective interes that's an interesting well listen it's it is subjective give me an objective stand for em subjective

Andrew Wilsonin the terms of psychology at all yeah it is most subjective psychology exactly exactly it's a subjective analysis so so like let me give you an example I can give you a really easy one okay let's

Andrew Wilsonsay that you're going out and you're overspending from my perspective like let's say married to a woman I say listen you're overspending okay okay and you say well listen I really need to

Andrew Wilsonspend this because I need X Y and Z for the household you think the paper towel holder and this and that is very important maybe it is maybe it is important and I think it isn't so I go and I cut off your access to that

Andrew Wilsonthreshold of money and give you a lesser threshold of money that I think is appropriate and you don't think is appropriate is that

Rosie Geneneabuse in that specific scenario there there's just like several factors to whether or not something is or isn't financial abuse because it's subjective that's why and it's

J'Quan (Jaquan)predicated on how the woman feels about hold because hold on hold on go ahead and it's predicated on how the woman feels about what you say like a lot of women just don't take kindly to being criticized at all they don't take kindly

J'Quan (Jaquan)to a guy even if a guy gets moderately upset and he raises his tone a little bit you have women who will consider that emotional abuse that's not I don't but I mean to me emotional abuse is like verbal like verbally saying really

Rosie Genenedegrading horrible things and like a a systemic thing over a a systemic thing over time excuse me and so I mean maybe I didn't initially understand

Rosie Genenethe point you were trying to make with the suggestive because the subject sub sorry I'm stuttering really bad right now um but in terms of emotional abuse being a factor I

Rosie Genenethink is important though it is suggestive subjective thank you subjective even though it is subjective it is something that I mean has has longing effects on

Rosie Geneneboth parent and child but when my initial point I was thinking more so abuse of the other aspects cuz emotional is it is impactful but it's not as

Andrew Wilsondangerous to like the health of the child versus the other one so let's let's move into okay if you fair enough you say okay when it comes to this it's subjective so maybe we wouldn't hide paternity on that but if we move over to

Andrew Wilsonphysical abuse let's say right you think that that's cut and dry well what if uh this guy he's convicted of uh physically abusing the mom then shouldn't we be able to hide paternity she says yeah I

Andrew Wilsonsay I still say no and here's why because plenty of people get accused of uh doing domestic violence or doing things like this and they haven't actually done it and so we're going to yield to the word of the woman in this

Andrew Wilsoncase and hide the paternity of that man's child for something which could easily be a falsehood that's immoral to the utmost in in my worldview okay and I see that but for me it's like if you're

Rosie Genenetalking about a mandated paternity test then at that point that's the government getting involved in between the relationship and the personal affairs of people and I am the kind of person that

Andrew Wilsonprefers to step off of unnecessary like government a communist you want the government involved in the LI that literally every single aspect hell said

Rosie GeneneI was a communist when earlier no you I was talking about capitalism and you said the word communism when that word never left my mouth so socialism I mean first I'm not really here to debate to

Andrew Wilsonpolitics I'm just asking this I can't talk about are you a socialist um I mean I consider myself a leftist okay yeah you don't care if governments involved in your life for all kinds of stuff what did you care if the government was involved in my life when there was

Andrew Wilsoncertain mandates going on around you didn't give a but now suddenly you care about now suddenly you care about I can't get into that but you know what I'm saying yeah okay I do now yes but um wait I have a question you said you when

Rosie Geneneit comes to you wouldn't want the government involved with mandatory paternity test over people's autonomy but let me ask you a question let's say do you want kids one day no oh okay so this is honestly for me this is just

Rosie Genenelike a thing that I don't really want to do I mean that was kind of an move but let's let's keep that was a real move yeah let's keep it nice guys let's keep it nice okay because some people are smart enough to

Brian Atlasknow what's best for them and for me my life okay I don't want to have children just let me ask the question okay but I would if I wanted to be a good mother okay so my question is though do you think you you said you wouldn't want the

Brian Atlasgovernment involved when it comes to paternity testing whatever uh so are you not in favor of Child Support women receiving child

Rosie Genenesupport for example so I believe that whoever has the child should have support from the other partner regardless of their

Rosie Genenegender I think that if a single father has the full custody of the child which enforced by which is enforced by the the the courts the state govern you said you

Brian Atlasdon't want the government involved with mandatory paternity testing so I'm just confused but well I mean look the government has its role all right the government has its role and I don't I

Brian Atlasmean at the end of the day but you do realize that like for example in a a uh child support dispute that the government would actually require if

Rosie Genenethere if the the man dis basis but when you're putting in a mandated paternity test then that is adding a complicated layer of paperwork and testing it's just literally as it's you're already in the

Rosie Genenehospital you're it's actually the perfect scenario to their questions is like does that apply to married couples or couples that are still together or are we okay yeah

Brian Atlaseverybody anyways here let's just go around the table anybody can answer this um do you think mandatory paternity testing would hurt or help women in today's

Brian Atlassociety would mandatory paternity test hurt or help women in today's society be good that's one of the super chat questions I don't know

Madisonokay I mean I don't have any children but I don't see why it would be a problem okay Madison I feel like with the way

Madisonnot all women but a lot like a majority of women are moving nowadays like it it could be very harmful to their children and the

Madisonman what would be harmful paternity testing like if they found out the child's dad was not the guy that she was with like that would be breaking their

Madisonfamily apart that's a from from a mandatory place I I mean I see your point I see your point I don't what about the truth no I think the truth is great I think yeah no absolutely

Madisoneveryone should know the truth but I think it's going to be terrible for the children if the truth is Reve favor are favor of with the way a lot of women are moving nowadays they're Pro like a lot of children aren't going to be having

Brian Atlasdads anymore so it would be it would be bad for women but you don't object to paternity testing no not at all I'm for it so you acknowledge okay I see I see I see are you are you in favor of that

Andrew Wilsoninjury it sounds like oh yeah yeah I think that the the rates of paternity which which are lied about is wildly understated wildly

Andrew Wilsonunderstated and uh yeah absolutely I think that if mandatory paternity testing was done there would be there would be significant problems for women but the kind of problems that I think

Andrew Wilsonthey should see which is responsibility we for forever forever inside of human society men did not have this we' never had the luxury of being a we had to

Andrew Wilsonalways take the word of the woman at as to paternity we don't have to do that now and we absolutely shouldn't do it now and even if it's not mandatory

Andrew Wilsoneverybody should get one no matter what always period and and just and and I have aund I look I have what I would consider 100% faith and trust in my wife

Andrew Wilsonbut I told her I told her these words exactly you're going to get the test and if not I'm out the door period well also there are that's not emotional abuse well they're also AB that would be

Mason Gregoireconsidered emotional abuse exactly was that 100% trust and Fai I mean it's your prerogative to do that but okay well it's not for her it's for me yeah well it's also there are also cases where like the hospital will jumble up babies no it's not it's as much trust as I can

Andrew Wilsongive of trust it's as much trust as I can give yes because you can't confirm that to something that's not trust well what where's the trust back the other way just being like okay yeah no problem wait Andrew there's if it was ever any

Brian Atlasresist that's how that works that's how trust Works what what is the like what what's the pitch to like how would you say that cuz I feel like if I would were to say that to to a girl I could see her

Andrew Wilsonlike my wife or when I'm having kids what could she paternity test what possible argument could a woman have towards asking you to get a paternity test other than it makes her

Andrew Wilsonfeel bad she's Unfaithful or like you don't trust other than it makes her feel bad what could the argument possibly be give me a single argument then cuz it makes me feel bad I want to hear it but why would you want to make her so that's

Andrew WilsonI feel bad if you're worried that she'd be cheating on you why would you even want to Rel that's I feel bad it's I feel bad saying clearly we don't have a strong Foundation sorry that's I feel bad no it's not it's saying we don't have a strong Foundation why would that matter if it didn't make one of them feel bad because she could say like if

Farha Khanwe don't have a strong Foundation of trust and Fa because she makes her feel bad she feel neutral about it and still be like oh wait a going maybe he's going to be con if she feels neutral about it if she feels neutral about it I have to

Farha Khantalk neutral about let her finish her Point say your point if they feel if she feels neutral about it then who cares I'm saying if you don't have trust in a relationship typically that will lead to a bad relationship regardless if

Farha Khanthe part is in the relationship feel bad about it or not that was my only Point yeah but that's the only argument is feel bad no it's not I literally said it doesn't matter if they feel bad or not she can and say clearly we don't have a

TTS/Donationsstrong Foundation donated $200 love your hair Maddie G with your marriage Brian love the Andrew Marathon

Brian Atlasshout out Crucible far my wife KTX okay thanks yo bone man thank you man appreciate it welcome uh good to see you back in the chat man go ahead far with your uh point

Andrew WilsonI completed it yeah so oh she completed it the the only reason that the trust variable is there is because it would make one feel bad over the other that's it so the only argument you would make for the trust is you don't trust me and

Andrew Wilsonthat what far you don't trust me and that makes me but it doesn't have to make you feel bad why would it matter basis of a relationship Foundation relationship if it's not and why is it a foundation what about this it's based on how you don't care or not you're

Farha Khancompletely apathetic to whether your wife cheats on you but maybe you still don't want her to do that even if you have no emotional reaction to it because you think that creates a unstable foundation for a relationship even if you're completely apathetic and maybe you're a cuck and you get off why would you care about the paternity test how

Farha Khanwould that be an argument if it's just a neutral you were saying what is an objection to your boyfriend asking you for paternity test and I'm saying you could say we're missing a important tenant of our relationship an important pillar

Farha Khanthat isn't contingent on me feeling good or bad about it that was my only point then if you don't feel good or bad about it why would it be an important pillar same way I told you maybe if your wife's cheating on you but you don't necessarily care wouldn't you agree that

Andrew Wilsonthat could have adverse effects on the relationship regardless how you feel about it personally those those would be like the adverse effects that you would be talking about of like her getting pregnant no not necessarily her getting

Andrew Wilsonyou even if she was infertile her giving you VD what is that venial disease I don't think those would be your only objections to stepping out how that makes you feel then I don't understand

Farha Khanyou're religious from your Christian perview you could probably outline a plethora of reasons for why you wouldn't want your girlfriend or wife to be sleeping with other people other than it makes you feel bad you'd probably think it you know has adverse outcom that's true I could appeal to an objective standard yes yes and most people in

Farha Khanrelationship what objective standard are you appealing to usually the tenants of trust in a relationship that's not an objective standard it's a subjective standard most relationship subscribe to that obviously people can deviate from that but but that's a that's a subjective standard at the end of the

Andrew Wilsonday the only reason you appeal to that subjective standard is because if I don't trust you and you don't trust me one of us feels bad I just told you there's many instances where you might not feel bad single one of those that doesn't really boil down to it made the other person feel bad and so and pin and

Andrew Wilsonfeel bad he just disagrees no you even created a hypothetical neutral so you said hypothetically what if neutrally it didn't make you feel bad for your wife to go out and do this thing what would be her objection okay what if I found out my husband cheated on me and I I

Farha Khangenuinely have zero emotional reaction to it but I still want to dump him did I dump him because it makes me feel bad or because I feel like we don't have a strong Foundation because there's just honesty and there's a lack of trust why

Andrew Wilsonwould I don't understand why do you want this the honesty and the trust inside of the relationship if you don't care if he cheats to be it's not about don't care I

Farha Khancan care without it making me feel bad yeah but okay so you you care but it doesn't make you feel bad that could happen yeah how you can't control emal response to something maybe you find out someone cheats on you or you found out your husband you know texted another

Andrew Wilsongirl and you're like okay this violates my care because boundaries it makes you feel bad people have boundaries that aren't always directly purely correlated to their feelings about it oh really so if guy is texting and you don't care

Andrew Wilsonthat means it's not about don't care it maybe doesn't make me feel bad oh if it doesn't make you feel bad then you don't care right I don't agree with that you don't no so you care if a guy's texting another person even if it doesn't make you feel bad I would still care even if

Farha Khanin that moment I felt apathetic about it I would still end the relationship even if I personally didn't cry about it even even though you didn't care even if I didn't cry about it or why would why would you do anything at all if you didn't care right that makes no sense

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