HEATED Debate! 3 Girls KICKED OFF (Hat Trick) | Dating Talk #77

Date: 2023-05-24

Duration: 5h 33m

Guests

Brian Atlas

VVictoria (DT77)>

JJessica (DT77)>

SShania (DT77)>

MMadison (DT77)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_01Jake/Shania (mixed)(guest)

SPEAKER_02Jessica(guest)

SPEAKER_03Madison(host)

SPEAKER_04Liv Margray(guest)

SPEAKER_06Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_08Jamie(guest)

SPEAKER_10Victoria (Vicky)(guest)

SPEAKER_11Jules(guest)

SPEAKER_12Shania(guest)

Key Moments

OtherShania reveals her father is Robin Crosby, guitarist of Ratt (80s hair metal band). Brian shows photos on screen.

“Robin Crosby okay you can just Google it okay all right”

QuoteLiv Margray admits to cheating on her first boyfriend (5-year relationship) when her boyfriend discovered texts on her iPad.

“he hacked my iPad and literally like broke my iPad”

ControversyVicky refuses to accept Brian's redirect away from transgender debate, insisting on continuing the discussion. Brian tells her to leave.

“you can either accept that or you can leave your choice”

OtherTriple kickoff (hat trick): Vicky asked to leave after refusing to drop transgender topic; Jules exits in solidarity; Madison briefly exits. Brian calls it a hat trick.

“okay this whole Squad leaving or what we got a whole Squad trick then I'm sorry”

OtherJules leaves show in solidarity with Vicky after Vicky is asked to leave.

“see ya I'm gonna get up too but thank you for having me”

QuoteBrian discloses 12 guests flaked on show day and vents about ongoing podcast stress, death threats, and hit pieces.

“we had 12 flakes today that's a [__] record”

ControversyBrian disavows statement made by male guest on previous show (Destiny stream) about enduring abusive relationships; clarifies his silence was not a cosign.

“let me emphatically say now that I disavowed the stance that was taken”

Topics Discussed

Guest introductions & announcements

Guests introduce themselves: name, age, occupation. Show announcements and tech check.

Relationship statuses & dating history

Guests share current relationship status and longest relationships. Liv discusses 5-year relationship that ended after cheating.

Red/green flags by job and degree

Discussion of red and green flag jobs/degrees for dating. Brian lists flight attendants, HR, nurses, OnlyFans as red flags. STEM as green flag.

Who should pay on the first date

Debate over whether men, women, or whoever asks should pay on first dates.

Body positivity and gendered insults

Discussion of 'small dick energy' phrase, body positivity double standards.

Situationships and modern dating apps

Dating apps, disposability culture, situationships, and fear of commitment.

Feminism: definitions and perspectives

Debate on feminism's meaning across the panel. Jamie vs Jules vs Vicky. Feminism's impact on family structure and women's roles.

Stay-at-home mothers and career women

Discussion of women in the workforce vs. stay-at-home roles. Jamie argues feminism pressures women into unfulfilling careers.

Transgender debate and triple kickoff

Heated debate on transgender ideology. Jamie (anti) vs Vicky (pro). Vicky refuses to accept Brian's redirect; kicked off. Jules leaves in solidarity. Third guest also exits. Brian calls it a 'hat trick'.

After-show: post-kickoff debrief

After-show with Madison and Shania. Recap of kicked-off guests. Brian discusses 12 flakes, ongoing podcast drama, stress. Discussion of show logistics and future guests.

Transcript

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Brian Atlasgreen flag for a woman degree okay so green flag degrees would be stem so I think like a girl who's in stem that's green flag um and then work wise uh I mean

Brian Atlasunemployed unemployed it's probably pretty good now um uh I'm trying to think of what a green flag would be for a job

Brian Atlasfor a girl um anything STEM related I think that's a green flag teacher red flag teachers red flag major red flag why she's dealing with obnoxious

Brian Atlaschildren I mean well it depends if she's like yeah she's just like that's such a stressful job and they make dog [ __ ] money and it's just like teachers are miserable I feel like so you care how much money your woman makes no I don't

Brian Atlasreally care doesn't that's lovely I'll do I'll do I mean I I yeah I'll so it's working at McDonald's yeah I dated a girl who worked at Chick-fil-A I did it for like two years

Brian Atlasaspirations outside of that though no I see huh but was she like doing other stuff outside of that yeah yeah she was pursuing pursuing a uh stem degree Sue Chick-fil-A

Brian Atlaslike work not like just work there oh I wouldn't care I just don't me personally given my income I don't really care about a girl's money because I could support she could be stay at home for at least

Brian Atlasfor me but the reality is though for most men and I I don't want to speak I want to speak more in general terms because most men probably can't afford to uh hold down the household on just

Brian Atlasone income yeah just the economic reality is is that basically because of feminism you need you now need to uh two incomes to support a family

Brian Atlassome people can do it but um so depends where you live yeah definitely depends where you live like the cost of living in California you'd probably I mean there's different

Brian Atlasparts of California where the cost of living is lower but yeah if you want to be in a city major city probably need uh if you're making like the average or median salary or whatever it is so

Brian Atlasum yeah did I thoroughly disqualify like 90 of women there probably okay no nurses that's like probably most so the only green flag is stem degree that's it there's no I'm sure there's I'm sure there's more but like stem

Juleslikes a girl who's studying stem to me to me I think that's a green flag um so I feel like too though when we like have these discussions about Flags it's sometimes not really applicable to

Juleslike actual connections and how they kind of just happen or even people having children sometimes it kind of just happens and people are end up in these situations where it might not be ideal or might have not checked off

Julesevery box on their list but that's the situation they're in sure so I feel like sometimes when we talk about these flags and we're all like trying to make these lists that's not always how it actually

Brian Atlasunfolds you know yeah well I I really don't care a whole bunch about uh like a woman's career like it doesn't and well this kind of leads into my next question so just a question forever actually hold

Brian Atlason let me do one chat here and then we'll get into my next question um actually no we I think we're Tapped Out on chats here let me just double check

Brian Atlasone thing yeah we're good okay um so uh who should pay on the first date men the the guy the girl you split well

Julesnow let me frame it like this uh who do you think yeah just who do you think should pay on the first date who whoever initiates the date and asks you out I think should offer to pay sure and

Brian Atlasif you can't pay and you want to like meet someone you should just like be upfront about your situation if you want to like meet someone tell someone up front yeah okay um sure tell them okay

Brian Atlasand uh okay so whoever asks should pay yeah what about you I think the man should pay man should pay okay what about you

Victoria (Vicky)um just how it ends up I feel like it shouldn't really be a conver I feel like it shouldn't always be a conversation you know just the flow of the date kind of determines like if you pay for yourself I mean of course like you want to be taken care of who doesn't want to

Victoria (Vicky)be taken care of especially like with gender roles and like the man pays for the first date but like you know if you're chilling you're having a good time and the bill comes and you just kind of like casually put your money

Victoria (Vicky)down it's like [ __ ] it you mean the guy yeah the guy or the girl I've never like it's like a non-answer but okay I guess like

Victoria (Vicky)like go with the flow if it's a good time it's a good time probably the guy's mostly gonna most likely gonna pay but like okay what if it's not even like a guy guy girl relationship what if it's like a girl and a girl like who pays

Brian Atlasthen that is the Rubik's cube of the dating world or masculine

Jessicawell okay so um who should pay on the first date I ideally I think that it should be men

Jessicabut I also am very open to the idea of like paying for myself especially on the first date um just because like women are like it's kind of this like common Trend now to like go on Tinder and then just find

Jessicasome dude to take you out to dinner so I can totally understand like a guy not wanting to pay on the first date and I would be totally open to like splitting it on the first date going forward if I

Jessicaexit my relationship but um I don't think I would have in the past but my eyes have opened a little bit and I can understand how that would be a predicament to be in as a man okay so would it be I mean if I know you're

Brian Atlasin a relationship right now but if you weren't in a relationship and let's say you went on a date with a guy and he asked to split the bill or he asked for Separate Checks would that be like a

Jessicato me I think it would kind of depend on the date like all together that wouldn't be like the like the end line for me um if I had a great date with the guy

Jessicalike all up until and then like they want to split like I I think it's really insincere to go into a date and expect a man to pay for you like you should you

Jessicashould be willing to pay for yourself like I think it's very nice and it's a wonderful gesture to pay for the first date but you know I I don't think that you should go in expecting that yeah and just to

Brian Atlasbring it back to you guys so you kind of chuckled there so you go on a date with a guy and waiter comes and he's like hey he says hey let's get Separate Checks um it's kind of like a

Victoria (Vicky)is it a deal breaker or is it kind of like some negative brownie points like what what is it I mean everything's of course circumstantial and like how he's feeling how I felt like if he's saying let's get stuck with checks in like a

Brian Atlasway that means like this is this is the last day we're going we're going on it's like okay it's not it's it's I don't know give it in the most charitable uh view it in the most

Brian Atlascharitable way as possible so he's not being he's just like ask the waiter hey two checks but it's not in a way it's like oh this is the final it's interesting that that's the Assumption there but go ahead what do you mean by

Brian Atlasthe assumption well you're oh that reaction to me suggesting that the guy wanting to split is him not being interested in the second date well no more reaction but I

Victoria (Vicky)mean like I feel like that is the idea genuinely and then like if he does that demand do that like as like a sign that like it's not the next day I mean me personally if he's like let's put it let's split it like it goes over

Victoria (Vicky)my head you know sure but like if you're like on a date with a girl and you're into chilling but you don't want to go to date again and you're would you use splitting the check is like a reason to like

Victoria (Vicky)to like let her know like you're shy I don't know like there's hints there's subtle hints you know like I like can you Uber home after two I've never been through that but like geez if you're best friends with someone

Julesfor example and then you guys end up falling in love and you before you guys were dating or in love you kind of knew there can somebody stop shaking their legs please somebody shaking their legs please stop go ahead um but yeah if two people were best

Julesfriends and they kind of knew each other's Financial situations and maybe like the man in that situation wasn't like thriving necessarily and they fall in love and then you know I feel like like you said it is kind of

Liv Margraycircumstantial and um that it shouldn't be this kind of like one size fits-all standard for sure I feel like if a guy asked me on a date like I'm kind of expecting them to pay

Liv Margrayjust because they're inviting me they're asking me kind of like even if you ask your friend to go somewhere sometimes like oh like it's on me with a friend but in a date situation I'm definitely expecting them to pay and if they say oh like separate tracks I'm gonna find that

Shaniaweird it's like why do we even go on this date like I don't know okay yeah let me try to get around on this so Shania did you answer the question uh no but I 100 agree that it's whoever asks

Jake/Shania (mixed)the other person out whoever asks okay yeah I I agree with that too it's like kind of like a birthday party thing you know you're invite people to your birthday party then ask them to pay it doesn't make any sense

MadisonI mean I don't want to be rude but if if the guy didn't pay for our date there wouldn't be another one there wouldn't be another one I'm traditional worried agreed okay I think a man should pay for the day well obviously like whoever

Madisoninitiates it but men are more likely to initiate dates anyway so right okay um so who who here some people said man

Brian Atlassome people I think you said whoever asks should pay uh just show of hands uh yeah show of hands whoever asks should pay and then man should pay

Brian Atlasmancha pay okay yeah wait so just sorry whoever I should pay Andrews okay okay um have you ever asked out a guy

Brian AtlasI have okay did you pay for the date we didn't go on the date okay you got rejected okay well so my first thing is is that

Brian Atlasmy first thinking is on this is that whoever I should pay is de facto men should pay because women aren't out here really asking men out on dates so anybody who says

Brian Atlaswhoever I should pay your answer may as well be men should pay because women are not out there in droves to the same degree that men are asking women out on dates some women do

Brian Atlasask them that on dates but it's like probably one percent of all the yeah we've got this uh and it's in play you better fix that [ __ ] hold on let me see

Brian AtlasI've been trying to fight uh you might have used a banned word it didn't it didn't trigger hold on let me check let me just see oh [ __ ] it's not playing

Brian Atlasthat's scuffed sorry man I don't know why better fix that [ __ ] there's always something weird going on Save Mike Davis hold on let me see what's going on here one sec Mike Davis

Brian Atlasum wait 199 one sec one sec one sec that's so weird I don't know why that's happening I love that you're still holding the baby yeah

Madisonthat baby looks like E.T where is your baby right now oh it's a lot let me see if I can trigger it one

Brian Atlassec Mike Davis right I drink way too much of this energy drink [ __ ] bro will that happen I drink way too much of that energy drink I'm like super wired

Brian Atlasum okay I'm gonna [ __ ] explode okay um I need Zeus he's jumping pretty gonna have to choke a [ __ ] what the [ __ ] hello um okay so whoever I should pay right so

Brian Atlasuh I'll wait till she's back from the bathroom let me see if I can trigger this one more time hey I gotta read it sorry Mike Davis are I guess I don't know why it's scuffed Mike Davis seven minutes ago I've been

Brian Atlastrying to fight the good fight but you simps never learned we got a panel who deserve nothing better than the porta potty cleaner yet just like the sun will rise tomorrow you simps will be in their

Brian AtlasDMS I'm choosing violence and y'all on notice Okay small dick energy oh SD that's interesting okay let's talk about small dick energy really quick okay um who here has ever used the term small

Brian Atlasdick energy besides you mom you know I have and I regret it you have and you regret it okay yes what about you small dark energy user I'm not a fan of the phrase

Jessicapersonally what about you small dick energy user I think it's a metaphor not literally I guess it's a metaphor but it means something so yeah I think the problem with it is

Jessicais that if you're as a woman gonna ask for men not to objectify your body it's hard to go and then objectify yeah their body and belittle it so that's just kind

Jessicaof what no you talk I'm sorry oh sorry but yeah that's just kind of my issue with it and my friend actually brought it up to me because we were sitting together and I just threw out the phrase I was talking about some guy and then he was just like don't you find that like a

Jessicalittle offensive and I was like oh you're right that that is kind of like even it was just funny he went into this whole thing about how it's pissed about it what about big dick energy that's the more common one you hear it's

Liv Margraynot it's not oh you don't have to actually have a big dick right it's just the energy

Brian Atlasproposes that if you're attaching a a body part which tends to be something that a lot of men are insecure about

Brian Atlasto confidence essentially so for okay for example um who who here is for body positivity show of hands -ish kind of

Brian Atlasum so I don't know I'd like to propose some new terms to the table what do you think of loose [ __ ] energy

Julesloose puts the energy yeah um it's giving 304 I think to like at the end of the day if you have to insult either side if you have to insult someone in order to get a point across

Julesyour point probably isn't that strong sure I agree so um I don't yeah so I'm not a fan of those like kind of terms personally but I think that it is like thrown around especially in our online culture where people aren't looking each other in the

Brian Atlaseye and like you know they feel kind of empowered when they insult people okay got it um cavernous vag energy who's for it what

Liv Margraydoes that even mean cavernous not not really I flow off the cavernous oh it's like a synonym cavernous badge energy

Brian Atlaslike parallel would that be tight [ __ ] energy yeah it'd be like right yeah type what's the energy I guess I I get my issue with it with with that term

Brian Atlasis and it's so casually thrown around you could in most circles you can probably throw around big dick energy like it's perfectly acceptable but if you were to like say

Jessicatight [ __ ] energy that's probably gonna like look at you yeah they're gonna be like that's yeah no you're right I had never thought about like big dick energy we also kind of I had thought about it for small dick energy but I had never thought about it for Big Dick Energy

Brian Atlaswell it's kind of yeah I I think it's small dick energy is worse because I think they're both bad placing importance on somebody's body parts it's interesting but in society they do that

Jamieanyway like men are still going to do that to women do what talk about our bodies and sure probably I feel like women talk about men's bodies all the time like I hear all the time I always hear people talk about

Jamielike man's height it's like a huge thing that like oh I would never date someone below six feet and like that's the equivalent I feel like of a man saying of like talking about like a woman's weight or something

Brian AtlasI think you owe an apology to Mike Davis for for saying

Liv Margrayhe's as in that way phrase as a metaphor not thinking about actually like the size of you know your thing you probably have a great huge

Victoria (Vicky)thing okay the energy is about okay that's the answer to this one okay it has to like originate from the fact that if you have like a if you're extremely like tiny or

Victoria (Vicky)like you have a really insecure about your size when you sleep with people you're gonna act a certain like when you're when you have your one night stand like insecure you're gonna act a certain way so that they don't talk about it like if you're insecure about your size what are you gonna do like are

Victoria (Vicky)you gonna treat the [ __ ] that you slow can have one night stands with like like [ __ ] because like because you're like nervous that they're gonna go talk like I don't know like I feel like it has to come from how those people feel

Victoria (Vicky)if anything and then big dick energy is like just confidence like flowing like which is more of a joke though but this is like what small dick energy is more of like a joke you know like yeah no

Brian Atlasone's gonna be like well yeah but it's a joke but if just if the reverse would not be viewed as a as a joke for example if you were to like say I'm trying to think that one the more positive ones like

Liv Margraynot like skinny girl energy or some [ __ ] they kind of say that they say like skinny queen or whatever or like things like that or I hear the opposite but uh anyways let's move on from that okay

Juleslet's bring it back to the money thing so um I forgot where we left off on the on that so uh I had a question about the money thing like yeah um I was gonna say like when we're talking about for

Julesexample how like you were saying how you know usually it's like men pain um don't do you think that sometimes maybe it's also a good idea to encourage women to

Julesbe independent in the sense that you don't they don't want to jump to depend on a man for finances because they can wind up in a situation where if you are dependent on a guy and it's not a

Juleshealthy situation and you're relying on them in that sense and it's harder for them to leave maybe they haven't sought out a path to support themselves and maybe being independent can be a way out of a dangerous situation for a lot of

Madisonmen well I understand your question but the question is related specifically to like until unless you're in like really deep into this relationship with this I don't

Julesthink it's like not for a first date I wouldn't think of that yeah but then into the relationship does that expectation carry on does the woman continue to expect the man to pay because do you no because you said

Brian Atlaswhoever I should pay right um I think that well you're okay you're six months into a relationship right did your current boyfriend did he pay for the first date he did did he pay for the second and third

Julesum help each other out or switch off like

Juleslike card we worked work to go I love to pay for him sometimes and he loves to pay for me too and like we take care of each other and he's definitely you know taking me to very nice places and paid as well just closer to the mic please

Brian Atlasum okay um so I want to try to keep this minimized I mean that that is something that happens but it's

Brian Atlasit's typically something that might play out uh later on in a relationship so uh so you said whoever I should pay you said the man should pay you said the man should pay correct yeah you said gender

Brian Atlasroles I said that I can it wouldn't be like the end of it for me basically basically yeah you're whoever whoever pays you said the man the man the man

Jake/Shania (mixed)okay I said the man but I also don't mind paying right you also don't have to break the bank on the first day too yes oh yeah I mean for two fun things without having to go to dinner first dates you should

Brian Atlasvery low commitment I reckon but that's not a lot of guys are not tuned into that and sometimes they'll go a little overboard so um well it's interesting so you said whoever asks you said the man should pay you said the man should pay

Brian Atlasbut all three of you said you don't really care about the guy's money earlier on in the conversation so how do you reconcile saying you don't care about the guy's money but expecting the guy to pay for the first date okay well the first date is kind of different than throughout an entire relationship like

Liv Margrayyou're asking me like long term do I care about like him paying for everything or like making a certain amount of money that's different than like okay first date like first date if he's asking me on a date which is like you said most women are not asking men

Liv Margrayon a date so I'm assuming them and I don't ask guys on date so if he's asking me I'm assuming he's gonna pay these he's inviting me to dinner so that's kind of dip what you're saying is like they're different like she wouldn't be going out there to that restaurant on her own and paying

Julesfor that so someone's saying hey like I'm inviting you to come then you know you and if they say like I actually like don't have the means right now like I feel like that's the individual situation where you can decide you know yeah and if he doesn't have the means to

Brian Atlaspay on the first date then he probably shouldn't be in a relationship I think he shouldn't be on a relationship if he if he should be focusing on himself so so shouldn't we say the same thing about

Liv Margraywomen who expect men to pay for first yes of course literally just said that men should pay for the first stage yes the first day of their ask ing yes okay which is how it always

Juleshappens right like women typically yeah exactly women women don't ask for dates but exactly um they do so sometimes yeah sure rare rare I don't think it's rare it's super heteronormative I think it's

Brian Atlasmore rare yeah and hetero well hetero heteronormative like well non-heteron normative relationships are rare too I shouldn't say rare they're they're not

Brian Atlasthe norm no that's not the right wording um they're not um I don't know what's the percentage breakdown of straight it's what 90 95 oh

Jamieand gen Z 21 of gen Z is identifies as lgbtq yeah I think it used to be 10 like when we were when I was growing up at least that's what okay well who's here here who hears by

Victoria (Vicky)I mean I guess yeah I guess what do you mean you guess yes talking about I don't really care about putting like a word over like what I like or what I like to [ __ ] or who I like to sleep with and make love to or

Jessicawhatever I kind of agree with that it's like the most interesting thing about it I feel like that's something that should like yeah like I I mean I've only dated men but I would say that like if for some reason I happen to fall in love

Jessicawith a woman like it wouldn't be like I wouldn't ex-nay that because I'm straight okay but so you're saying in lesbian relationships obviously

Julesa woman obviously has to ask a woman out or sometimes like we have examples of women that like are interested and like I've seen examples I

Julesmean maybe it's more rare but you know every situation is so unique so unique you know even if it's like the same sex or different sex it's totally unique

Brian Atlassituations of how people end up having dinner together yeah but we're the exception doesn't make the rule generally speaking I'd say overwhelmingly speaking probably

Brian Atlasmore than 95 of the time the guy is asking the girl out so I mean we could talk about the five percent where the women do ask a guy out

Brian Atlaswhere they're in addition to you know uh a much greater likelihood of it being successful if a girl does ask a guy out so I mean it I mean we can get into that

Brian Atlasbut uh it's just interesting to me though all of you said that you three said you don't care about a guy's money yet you said whoever I should pay aka the Manchester day you said the man should

Brian Atlaspay you said the man should pay on the first date so how do you reconcile and maybe you can weigh on this I haven't heard from you uh well you don't you don't care about the guy's money so why should the guy pay on the first date you said gender roles right

Victoria (Vicky)um I just feel like you want to take care of someone you want to show them that you're like responsible that you're like you don't care enough to make her pay like

Brian AtlasGod I guess you just why can't you do that for the guy you can but like but you don't want to well you just said the man should pay

Victoria (Vicky)I guess it's sort of like a it is a gender role thing and I think maybe you want to be taken care of you want to feel respected it's like if it's a stigma if the stigma around it is respect then yeah the men should pay because

Victoria (Vicky)it's you're it's a respect thing it's oh you [ __ ] with me thing and so I like you thing but like if it's a stigma around it is like I don't know what do you guys think you can open the other leave it open pardon huh okay

Victoria (Vicky)well I think about what like the stigma around is paying equal to I respect you that's the type of guy I am how does that that reflects I guess because of like we're talking about it right now it's

Victoria (Vicky)obviously a thing that people think about it's reflectory of like whether or not what the guy likes you whether or not he's respects it to you whether or not he has bde whether or not

Liv Margrayhe has what is it small what is it what's the acronym spe like is it spe e to not pay for the [ __ ] like sorry yeah I feel like when when like I also

Liv Margrayfeel bad if I'm trying to pick because I feel like they're it's like their masculinity and they like want to pay and they feel like oh like I'm supposed to pay type thing and I feel like because like when I was with my boyfriend you know like if I paid for

Liv Margraythings he would be like like I would obviously we'd pay for things like I paid for a lot of things for him but because I did make more money they met him at the time but literally like he would be like kind of insecure if I was paying for things you know what I mean

Julesand I feel like that's kind of because I feel like they have to though which is kind of sad I think too you shouldn't like for me personally at least I I'll always offer because I don't go into a relationship

Juleswith that expectation of somebody to take care of me and like maybe that expectation is like exists in society but I don't think everybody like goes into it in that with that intention I I

Liv Margrayalso feel like it's not that deep like just hold on hey and enjoy the rest of your night so we have a question for the men yeah so if you guys got asked on a date by a woman are you paying or are you not okay so are you like okay like

Jake/Shania (mixed)hey let's go on a date are you okay I really don't care so what if she tried to pay would you let her babe sure she's like adamant about it like I think there's like the like no let me pay and you're not gonna be a jerk about it

Brian Atlascloser to the mic please that's cute you know what about you if a girl asks me out yeah she can pay for that [ __ ] would you say yes yeah I like it if a girl Sims for me

Brian Atlasyeah yeah yeah it's so [ __ ] rare it's refreshing yeah it was fun huh no yeah for us should we be asking men on dates

Brian Atlaswhat I think you would have a very high success rate I mean really there's a couple different train of thoughts on this I think some guys are like into this like they want to be in

Brian Atlastheir masculine frame yeah and I think there's validity to that and some guys are just traditional and they're gonna be like nope I want to pay me personally I don't think it's a turn

Brian Atlasoff if the guy pays I think that's more [ __ ] gangster that's way more gangster than than She's So Into You that she's asking you out she's paying on the date you can still lead and be in

Liv Margrayyour masculine and she's simping for you that's some gangster [ __ ] do you like respect for Less no I respect her more yeah because what if he's gonna be like oh

Brian Atlasshe wants me so bad like she's like taking me out dude I rare I really do it dude I like it when a girl's like kind of I don't like it when a girl's like

Brian Atlasif a girl's like for example if she were to approach me and it was like in a really masculine like hey wanna [ __ ] like this is a super direct but if she approached me and she was kind of like Coy and a little shy about it that would

Brian Atlasbe super [ __ ] hot so same with like if a girl DMS me first if she went about it in like a tactful way major turn on and if she [ __ ] paid for the date I

Julesdon't know maybe I'm gonna get dragged in the chat but like I mean I think I'm super down for it it's also super down if it encourages women to like sit in their power or stand in their power and like not be afraid to maybe do something

Brian Atlasthat might be perceived as a little bit more masculine I think that's where that that bridge of understanding is yeah and I I still like to lead you know I still like to lead in relationships but if a girl is like I don't know I kind of like

Jamieit when a girl's like I see I don't like this chasing idea or like girls who play hard to get because like that like what I feel like girls like to be Chase yeah probably a lot of people

Brian Atlaswanted like I would never ask a guy out first sure even if I like someone but but so I think the thing is though is that you like it because you're in a position of power because if the guy is trying to

Brian Atlasget you you're in like a better negotiating position in the same way that that like for example if I reach out to a company to do a brand deal they're in a stronger negotiating position because I went to them but if

Brian Atlasthey come to me it's just like a framework where I have more negotiating power if they're coming to me yeah and that's that's how basically women's position is women have a bunch of dudes coming to them so they have like they

Brian Atlashave much more options they're much more capable of being in these stronger negotiating position so but I would say woman risks more when they're dating I agree I think it's a bigger risk as a

Jessicawoman dating yeah yeah especially like I mean age like if you're trying to have kids or anything like men don't really have to worry about that like you can be 40 and go around and find some 20 year

Brian Atlasold to but I I look and I I because of I've had plenty of experience having to be the initiator because for most men

Brian Atlasyou have to be the initiator initiator otherwise you're going to be bro you're gonna die virgin bro if for most men if you don't initiate like you're done yeah because girls like a

Jamiemasculine guy that will come and show that they want them and like kind of work for them like girls want that like I feel like the whole feminism and everything they try to like they try to break that down and they're trying to

Madisonsay that's not true but it is it's like human nature for women yeah I think you think girls coming to you and like being like more assertive to you is hot we think guys coming to us and doing the same but that's the defaults though

Brian Atlasthat's the default so I'm I'm perfect perfectly capable of being the initiator I've done it for the vast majority of my uh relationships although I have found that a lot of my relationships the girls

Brian Atlasmet me more a little bit more in the middle like they showed a little bit more effort and interest where there's like I don't want a lot of girls will play like not play hard to get but my philosophy on being

Brian Atlashard to get if you're hard to get you quickly become hard to want so I don't want a girl who's like I don't know I like it when girls are like I'm I'm a really no [ __ ] guy so I'm

Brian Atlasjust I'm the type of guy I'm like hey I like you do you like me cool we're good I don't want a girl it's like where I'm on the I don't know where I stand with her I'm gonna disagree I feel like I I want the guy to come to me but I also

Jessicawant the guy to be kind of hard to get like I think my husband did that and it worked because he was like still hard to get yeah it's like a weird dance like I feel like you need a little bit of both like

Liv Margrayit can't be too hard to get but you can't also be just come and get me I'm I'm open range Open Season that means it's gonna be for anybody yeah like

Jamiethat's not attractive forward early on yeah it's like like you said it's this dance that you have to meet it if you're too forward or early on it's also kind of a turn off like yeah I think you're like right on the money when you're saying kind of like you're acknowledging

Juleswomen being in this position of power where like the guys are asking them out and so they're kind of the weak one where they might they have the chance of getting rejected and I think that's kind of where a lot of this resistance and

Julesthe kind of issues come up in these topics about relationships because we might think that because women are in that position of power we need to disempower them by teaching men like

Julestactics that make them feel like they're in the position of power when in reality I think it's about seeing each other as like sentient beings like deserving of compassion deserving of Love deserving

Brian Atlasof healthy relationships not about winning yeah sure um I'll just say at least for me and look I for the vast majority of my experiences with with women I would say generally speaking I've been the one

Brian Atlaswho's a bit more taking the initiative uh however I I'm not gonna lie and sit here and say if a girl slides into my DMs for example

Brian Atlasthat that's a turn off absolutely not and look I can I can lead it from there but if a girl shows a little bit of initiative and I don't want a girl in my DM like let me [ __ ] you no I don't want

Brian Atlasthat but just like show you're interested clearly but it doesn't have to be this like really uh abrasive thing yeah um so

Brian Atlasyeah but I also don't like it if a girl like slides into my DMs and is like kind of coy with it and it's like hey how's your day going I'm like bro just be I like when girls are up front just

Brian Atlasup front hey whatever thought you're cute whatever and uh yeah so um but to bring it back to paying I also I don't like to pay for the first date actually hold on let's do some chats

Brian Atlashere and I'll I'll finish up on the first date thing okay so we have uh uh I'm sorry that I'm gonna actually step up and fix the stream Labs because it's not triggering Mike Davis I apologize I'm gonna try to get that

Brian Atlasfigured out but we have um he can be a little rough huh okay oh she's not here bro come on all right dust I'll read that in a sec yo Dustin Bond thank you for the 100 why does everyone on the show current

Brian Atlasepisode in previous panels consistently say woman when referring to women plural because uh we fail at English in California I guess I don't know or in the US yes we do why consistency say

Brian Atlaswoman women uh that's why I don't know we're also just sound wrong to you but we are saying the right thing yeah maybe it blame the sure sm7bs I guess

Brian Atlasum uh Mike Davis no apology needed from that uh blonde she's not even worthy to utter my name holy [ __ ] shots fired she talking about insecure energy when she got fake boobs hey those titties are

Liv Margrayreal they're bro you check out her IG just saying um okay I sell these lashes so yeah and I don't have a big butt she doesn't have

Liv Margrayone stupid he's loving me a little bit Shane courtesy of a goofy Sim did a Sim pay for your chain I think he would still I think he would still date me though you know what I mean

Madisonum Madison take it away what what huh Grill they don't look fake

Madisoncan I tell you a lot of money he owns a bunch of Burger Kings really Mike what yes well he should change his mindset on women I'm not gonna get married is that

Madisona burger Jesus where's the picture Burger King don't get the Burger King you want to be his Burger it's this

Madisonburger Kingdom Burger to your king will you roll with the iron fist I don't know what to talk about I I'm not I'm not a host no all right everyone

ShaniaI have a really important question should be considered unclean attention this is really deep so if it's too deep just let me know um what's everyone's favorite color oh

Julesmy God I'm a blue girl forever I like a good um lilac okay

Misca very compelling question what's your favorite color bro I believe and we just bore the pot

Liv Margrayone two eight what

Liv Margraywe working this is the men in the chat do you want the woman to pay for your meal at dinner okay I have a question for everybody so I've noticed that like there's this

Jessicaweird thing like that we all refer to dating as a thing

Jessicathat's what you used to call it in the 80s and the 90s like you didn't call it a situationship you just were dating that person they weren't your boyfriend like relationships that start off that like with like situationships and things

Jessicaare less likely to last yes that but I just I hate the like term thing it sounds just so like I'm a thing so what should the term be I say I don't like I'm dating I'm seeing somebody I'm

Jessicadating somebody like you'd to be dating somebody doesn't mean you necessarily have to be their boyfriend or their girlfriend like yeah oh so you have a boyfriend they're quartering you or whatever if you want

Madisonto go guys also but yeah I think it's like the TV effect personal experience being in like a thing I was miserable being another terrible situations earlier but and they last so long

Madisonnowadays like you go on dates and like three dates maybe and then it's like your boyfriend girlfriend now it's something for like over a year and a half before yeah maybe that's why we call it a thing and it's not dating anymore because it's

Jamienot just three dates yeah like I get it just right at the beginning yeah but once you've been on a few dates it's like I just hate because I think three months and then you're like okay let's be committed at like minimum there's more than three months and you guys are

Julesnot gonna work do you think the other people like do you think it's possible to have like a healthy situation that might not last forever like a Summer Fling when you know you're you're maybe not you know you love you have love for

Julessomeone but both of you don't have the intention of like having a long-term committed relationship do you think it can be a positive experience um yeah

Madisonif you're having a good experience so you like go to like Europe or something find the Summer Fling you're gonna leave and be so depressed yeah I don't think there's anything wrong with that you're putting too much value on the bad part of it what about the good part I mean

Madisonyeah there's good parts but don't you want that good part to last a little

Julesyeah that's true it's like situation ships are just too common nowadays and it's like that's all there is yeah people are just scared of commitment that's what I feel like yeah

Liv Margrayor they did firmly because it's like oh we're together but like I'm allowed to maybe see other people if somebody else comes along it's not even a fear of commitment

Shaniait's just everyone is so disposable now with dating apps and yeah I don't know shopping you can just throw it away this is one wrong thing happens with the person that you're seeing you're like oh I don't like that but I know someone out

Julesthere will else have it yeah yeah you know you can date someone who's across the world now instead of just in your town it's also a good thing too though I think because if you know you are in a situation where you realize that like

Julessomeone does do that wrong thing you can you know that there are like plenty of fish in the sea and like you shouldn't be afraid to hold your boundaries and like know your worth wait are you saying that like quote unquote things might be

Julesgood sometimes so you can catch red flags on the way definitely I mean I think like before maybe you want to take something seriously your parents and stuff it's good to like

TTS/Mischold up quickly I'm so excited I fixed it is this the guy again are we gonna fight cleaner yet just like the sun will rise tomorrow you simps will be

TTS/Miscin there oh I read this one I'm choosing violence and yell on notice the choosing violence says all right we have energy feeling she she learns nothing okay uh

Brian Atlasfeeling dangerous I said small energy and say in other words okay feeling dangerous one one three donate a hundred thank you man uh for the women that Define ambition but not a dollar amount in terms of earnings explain why that would be

Brian Atlasbetter than uh I need to fix the size of this but uh why would that be better than a steel worker longshoreman or oil worker all three of which make six figures and don't cone with a risk of failure of blind

Brian Atlasemotion come with a risk of failure or blind ambition um that question was too long yeah yeah I guess explain why they would be better

Liv Margraythan a steelworker I think somebody that has ambition but like has like a McDonald's job type thing is how is that better than somebody who has a steel worker job or whatever okay I'm

Brian Atlasfeeling dangerous thank you man sorry the it's going to cut off that last sentence unfortunately until I can fix it but um did you have something Oh I thought you were about to uh okay

Jessicaum yeah I don't think I should pay for First Dates oh I don't think you should be well I agree I certainly agree with that but I think that it's a nice gesture but

Brian Atlasyou do pay for first AIDS don't you yeah you just don't go on dates anymore it depends depends here's my thing how do you get like what reaction do you get to that well I mean it's fine it's it varies but my my thing is when it comes

Brian Atlasto paying for the first date is you don't a lot of people say you don't get to keep the traditional gender roles that benefit you and

Brian Atlasdisregard the rest so you have a bunch of like liberal feminist women who like will be it's a deal breaker if the guy won't pay for the first date they refuse

Jessicato adhere to their own gender that's why I I can't agree like with pain like making you pay on the first date because like it just doesn't it doesn't add up with my others

Jamie[Music] if you don't like gender roles then you shouldn't expect a man to pay for you on the first day yeah yeah you got to be consistent wait what what's your

Victoria (Vicky)response to that huh Jesus like I guess gender role I mean like to negate gender roles doesn't mean that like the person who like asks you out or like if you're a submissive type you know want to be

Victoria (Vicky)taken care of I can't really explain it it's like a mother's tell your daughter's thing you know he should pay for your first date yeah yeah so that means you believe in traditional gender roles

Jamiewhich I agree with you but I Believe In traditional gender roles I believe in certain gender roles like in the form of like your you only believe in the ones that benefit you that yeah as a woman okay no well I think too like like

Julesyou're saying I don't think you necessarily have to abide by traditional gender roles to assume that a guy should would offer to pay for a date that he asked you on I don't think that that's

Juleslike necessarily completely true it's like situation based so like you know for me if a guy asks me on a date I would still offer to pay

Julesum but I would expect him to offer as well because he's asking me and if he offered like I would probably say like yes and say thank you but that doesn't mean that I think that you know I should be a housewife and

Jamieum only like clean in the kitchen and that I shouldn't be independent like I feel like it's deeper than that but if you don't believe in gender roles then why do you think that men should in general pay for the day I don't think

Julesmention in general that's why I said like whoever is asking you know I think it would be respectful of them to offer because like they're asking someone else to come out and you know yeah they're

Brian Atlasinitiating The Hangout but the majority of men ask like we said yeah yeah but but the whole again the whoever asks asks thing is at best naive because it

Brian Atlasignores the fact that overwhelmingly men are the ones asking so I mean you can you can sort of play a word game and say well whoever I should

Brian Atlaspay but if men are overwhelmingly let's say not in 95 of instances the one who who are asking you might as well put an equal sign whoever I should whoever asks just

Julesreplace whoever asks with men okay but like I said I'm not the kind of person who if a guy asks me to go on a date and I had an amazing time I met an incredible person and then had the best

Julesnight in my life I'm not just gonna be like oh there's no second date because like he didn't offer to pay and he was like hey do you mind if we split this that's not me personally so I think that I can you know and that's that's totally

Brian Atlasfine however I think a lot of women would prefer the guy to pay and for a fair amount of women that might be just a deal breaker full stop

Brian Atlasif regardless of how good the date would it'd just be a instant stopper hey he paid or he wanted to split wait I'm no longer interested and we've

Jamiehad girls on the show admit as such go ahead do you when you're on a date do you expect like the guy to like open up the door for you like pull out your seat when you like sit down for dinner like those like gestures or like drive you to

Julesthe day I think that people are such like unique beings and we come from different families and have different life stories and cultures and so I don't come in with the expectation of who I

Juleswant them to be I let them show me who they are and you know that might be like a traditional role that they're playing and I'll still like have respect for that but I'm not looking for that and that's not like a deal breaker for me at

Liv Margrayall but you also said that you women should pay for a day but then you said you don't care about how much money they make so it's kind of the same way of you saying to us oh but you want a man there are different gestures so I'm just saying like what you said to me

Brian Atlasis the same thing you said no but I don't say the same thing I said it's I I would think it's actually attractive if a girl offered to pay for the day huh but you said woman should pay on the first day well I was being a little

Brian Atlasfacetious because no no sane man would expect a woman to pay so but you do but it's also no I think I

Brian Atlasthink I think what I what I said was the fetish is that men shouldn't pay and I I think it should be split to me that's the most egalitarian thing that that

Liv Margraymakes the most sense to me but you all also saying you want to pay for your girlfriend to basically for everything you said you want to pay the bill no so okay I'm open to that I'm open to that

Brian Atlasbut it's not like I'm just exclusively dating women who are unemployed or in college like so I think she's kind of saying too like you it's a like a positive thing that you can admit being

Julesattractive to something like while still kind of maybe respecting and wanting those traditional roles in your own future and your own relationship you can also you know

Madisonfind it attractive if a woman does something that's like not really that traditional you know thing it's also even like none of them not that I'm like making the man pay for everything like every date that I've been on especially

Madisonwith my boyfriend to this day like I'll still like hand out my card but they just refuse to like let me pay it's it's not like oh I'm gonna make you pay for the whole entire thing like you have to pay like

Brian AtlasI'm always gonna offer but I always offer too to be nice here's a question with the like you you offered to pay if the guy took you up on your offer

Brian Atlaswould you be a bit I mean I know you're married but like let's say when you weren't when you're still dating or whatever would you be kind of turned off if he took you up on the offer yes no I like that my husband would I would offer

Jamieto be nice and like but secretly you're white but like he would be like no way you're not paying for anything on any date that we ever go on okay and I like that you like that yeah but if a guy

Brian Atlaswere to have taken you up on the token offer let's say you would be a little uh deal breaker it would be a deal break I would pay but then it would be no second date see I gotta challenge

Brian Atlasyou a little bit on this here so okay so uh women often complain that men are poor communicators but I if if you offer to

Brian Atlaspay I feel like men are very literal logical thinkers so like when I think of that if a girl offers to pay and then

Brian Atlassay a guy in good faith takes up that offer and then you disqualify him because of the words that came out of your mouth wouldn't that

Jamiequite literally be poor communication I guess in a sense but I I think that that's interactions with humans you know there's gestures that you do to be polite and you know that there's

Jamiejust throughout life there's gestures that people will do and you don't necessarily take it up on and it's more just about that guy's values truthfully like I like what I loved about my husband is that he's the type that would

Jamiethat feels that a girl should never pay for a date that they're on and so for him that was like not acceptable if that makes sense sure so like I guess it's one thing if like the if you're like oh I want to pay help pay for this day or

Jamiewhatever and he's like no no and you really really pushed it like truthfully I went on a date with someone a few years ago before I was married and I didn't really want to have a second date and I kind of thought it was more of a friendship thing and so like on that

Jamiedate I like really really was like no no I'll pay I'll pay because I didn't want to feel like I like owed him anything if that made sense yeah and so then he ended up like agreeing and so like I think if you're like you said more forceful about it then I don't think that makes you like a horrible guy yeah

Brian Atlasand and I have heard that from women where if the the girl knows she's not interested sometimes they will offer to to split uh so I have heard that from from women

Brian Atlasum but uh look I think the reason why I'm sort of hesitant to off the Jump be fall into the provider role fall into traditional gender roles

Brian Atlasis especially here in California I would say 90 of women are not traditional women yeah so like I'm not gonna pay for a girl my this is what I always say I don't want

Brian Atlasto pay for a girl who's [ __ ] another dude and like in 2023 realistically like a lot of girls have some dude that they're [ __ ] and they're going on dates with with other

Brian Atlasguys so like I don't want to be a sucker that's what it comes down to I don't want to feel like a sucker so I don't want to go pay for a girl pay for even if it's [ __ ] 10 bucks it's not it's not even a money thing

Brian Atlasyeah yeah it's a principal thing so I don't want to feel like a sucker even if it's ten dollars like I don't want to feel like a sucker so but do you date liberal woman or is that like a turn off

Jamiefor you like oh I'm only interested in conservative women that are more along traditional generals because I get that that's hypocritical if you're like a hardcore feminist that believes in deconstructing gender roles and then you come in and you're like I expect you to

Jamiepay for my day like I think that is hypocrisy and like you said I I was I come from a traditional background where you only date one person and so I don't think you should pay for a girl if she is going and sleeping around and

Jake/Shania (mixed)everything yeah I mean the vetting process with it I feel like if you're intuitive enough to know what's going on if you're gonna go on a date with them sorry yeah what do you think about that

Brian Atlasyeah I mean I would say generally speaking I'm not the women I attract and the women I'm interested in generally speaking are

Brian AtlasI like to think I have a fairly good radar for it but like you genuinely like even really unassuming women they could be sleeping with three other dudes like

Brian Atlasthere's some shy demure introverted type chicks that are a lot of dudes and I don't know I don't want anything to do

Brian Atlaswith the girl that's sleeping even with one other well I shouldn't even say even if you're sleeping with another dude and you're going on a date with me

Liv Margrayit's over bro I don't I mean I don't know anything I I are assuming so yeah she doesn't know yeah so you just like are gonna assume and then kind of not

Jessicapay because that's how I I assume that because that's how a lot of people are moving yeah I think he's like saying that like it's just kind of a culture now it's like you'd have to like initially assume that as a guy to kind of like protect yourself

Juleswait I'm sorry I assume what maybe a lot of women yeah but what about the women if I'm paying for you and then you're [ __ ] other girls we're not even paying but like in general going into you know it's

Juleskind of we're all in the same boat not knowing who somebody is when you meet them face to face and so yeah you know that's what I think it's all about like the really who who pays and at the end of the day it's not really the big deal but it's just about like who is that

Liv Margrayperson like do you want to continue to spend time with them are they can you kind of sense are they being true are they being honest with you because that day will turn into maybe a relationship and they're obviously not going to be with other people during your relationship but yeah it's the first

Madisondate you can't expect somebody like loyal to you on the first I do you do yep if you're gonna go out and like take the effort to go on a date with someone then yeah I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go on a date with anyone if I'm like kind

Liv Margrayof like don't know where I'm at yeah yeah but I'm saying like let's say you're texting a guy or not even having sex with them or something and then you go on a date but you're texting like a few guys or something or something like that sure you know what I mean and then

Liv Margrayremember she's not even having sex with them and then she goes on a date with you like you consider that like unloyalty but it's their first date like why are you like expecting loyalty on your first day and even know this person because especially he's not loyal she's

Liv Margraytexting other dudes while going on a date with you that's already yeah I mean but why would she be why would you expect loyalty on your first day I don't I don't expect it because I think it's a

Brian Atlasvery rare thing it's it's what I want I don't like I want a girl coming to me properly single I don't want you to have a sneaky link I don't want you to have but you'd be considered a sneaky link or

Brian Atlasbe considered no one of the guy or a guy I don't want to be on the bench I don't want to be on your roster go find there's guys who are happy with that but I want a girl to be properly single when if if she's going to be interacting with

Brian Atlasme but here's the thing right some girls are not going to be upfront with that and certainly guys are not going to be upfront with the other women that they're seeing the the only difference is is that I would say is that women

Brian Atlashave to deal with that too definitely like yeah there's guys who have five chicks Seven Chicks um the difference is though is that there's more women who are seeing multiple guys

Julesor seeing another guy then there's guys that have multiple women really because I feel like especially in this like kind of world of podcasts and the red pill ideology I feel like a lot of the time

Julesyou we hear men spewing this information about how because like you know they're men and they need to spread their seed that you know women should accept that a guy is going to have urges and he might act on their urges but she should be

Julesloyal to him and he can kind of fool around I feel like that's a lot at least for me that's what I've heard a lot of and that I think makes women more kind of like the Andrew Tates and a lot of those podcasts you know are in that

Julessimilar realm so I think a lot of people might go into relationships or meeting people thinking they need that roster I mean unless they actually want to be talking to all those people but they think they need that to have this defense

Brian Atlasmm-hmm I mean I I don't think that women should be copying men's behavior a girl but so you approve of that men's behavior no okay no I I don't think men should be

Brian Atlaspromiscuous either um I think the the thing is though is I think it's there are some I think the double standard those well we we don't have to get into the double standard but uh

Brian Atlasyeah let's not get into the double standard but uh [ __ ] where was I going with this um look I just basically don't want to date a girl that's sleeping with another guy like that's

Brian Atlasjust to me either but I can't commit yeah the the you're I think your initial response to me was I was basically saying women are more likely to have other guys than men

Brian Atlasare now here's the difference though perhaps because women are basically all chasing after the top 10 top 20 percent of men and we see this playing out on dating apps and the the data is in from these

Brian Atlasdating apps women swipe on like 10 of dudes I don't know the exact number is crazy it's like they're above six foot like they're getting all the legs but dating apps are a horrible place to meet people they are but I would say most

Brian Atlaspeople nowadays are actually meeting online I agree yeah so they're not great places to meet people but most people are meeting online and um

Brian Atlasyeah definitely with coven and uh so and I mean even before dating apps like I would say women were like if you have a room of 10 dudes and

Brian Atlas10 women like there's going to be like one dude in that room that all the girls want and is that just by attraction yeah they're just all gonna want the most attractive dude they might not be able

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