Michael Knowles vs. 3 Feminists | Whatever Debates #4
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
Key Moments
“feminism is the idea that men and women are not complimentary... it's a false view of human nature and I think it's harmful to everybody and especially harmful to women”
“there can't be a choice and the reason there can't be a choice is that if given the choice most women would stay at home... women must be forced to be free”
“what you've just articulated is something called the wisdom of repugnance... we don't write a moral treatise on every single thing... most prejudices are right”
“on a personal level I'm pro-life I wouldn't get an abortion but on a macro level I'm pro-choice”
“you have an only fans too yeah she doesn't she are you kidding me I've been oh man I thought you strung me along so well and now you're going to pull the rug”
“I was a virgin all through college I'm still a virgin I do all these things I date these Christian conservatives they talk about waiting till marriage they talk about going to church every Sunday porn addicts all of them”
“you're the one who's trying to entice these men to look at this stuff and then you're trying to put all of the blame on them... you are part of the problem”
“I'd like to do more research on this topic before publicizing an opinion”
“I don't think trans women are men either... I would say they're a part of the umbrella of women... well biological women... real women... well you just accidentally said what we all [think]”
“before the show you said it's morally depraved to be a munch, do you stand by that statement? Oh yeah we were discussing the previous episode I learned a lot of jargon”
Topics Discussed
Brian introduces Michael Knowles (conservative) vs. three feminist debaters: Pixie, Farha Khi, Jasmine Jafar. Opening debate on how to define feminism. Knowles argues feminism erases female virtue by demanding women act like men. Feminists argue for equality of opportunity and choice. Discussion of Gloria Steinem, Simone de Beauvoir vs. Betty Friedan on female choice.
Brian asks whether they live in a patriarchy. Feminists define it as system where men hold most social/political/economic power. Knowles redefines it as the proper structure of marriage (husband as head as Christ is head of church), says current 'perverted patriarchy' is the problem. Discussion of whether the West is still a patriarchy vs. broader global perspective.
Debate on University of Pennsylvania/Yale 2008 'Paradox of Declining Female Happiness' study. Knowles: happiness declining since 1973 despite feminist progress. Feminists: can't isolate cause; better mental health measurement; pre-1970s housewife prescription drug use also high. Knowles: rising antidepressant use (1-in-5 middle-aged women). Discussion of children making people less happy, marriage rate decline (-60%), birth rate decline (-50%).
Debate on whether America was founded as a Christian nation. Knowles argues separation of church and state was not an original founding principle; Bill of Rights didn't apply to states at ratification. Feminists argue First Amendment establishes separation. Discussion of Thomas Jefferson's Bible, Treaty of Tripoli, established state churches. Knowles argues Christianity spread peacefully vs. Islam.
Brian asks whether women or men are more oppressed. Knowles argues true oppression comes from sin and vice, not patriarchy. Farha prefers 'marginalized' to 'oppressed.' Discussion of divorce rates, marriage law incentives, domestic conflict vs. divorce outcomes for women and children. Debate on whether traditional marriage or liberal divorce law is better for outcomes.
Brian introduces abortion as a feminist issue. All three feminists are personally conflicted: Farha: personally pro-life, macro pro-choice. Jasmine: generally pro-choice, doubts late-term morality. Pixie: finds abortion viscerally repulsive but won't prescribe for others (compares to vegetarianism). Knowles: applies 'wisdom of repugnance' (Leon Kass) — moral repugnance is a rational signal. Debate on contraception and abortion rate correlation since Roe v. Wade. Pre-Roe abortion statistics debated (back-alley abortions, Bernard Nathanson statistics).
Debate on why women outgraduate men in academia. Knowles says academia is declining in quality. Pixie argues God equipped women with rational faculties for more than domestic roles. Discussion of 'greater male variability hypothesis.' Knowles argues for complementarity not identity. Debate on women in STEM, DEI policies and their downstream credentialing effects. Discussion of Phyllis Schlafly as anti-feminist who was also publicly active.
Brian raises the 77-cents-to-the-dollar gender wage gap statistic. Jasmine argues gender bias persists even in controlled studies. Knowles argues DEI creates downstream skepticism about qualifications. Cites Clarence Thomas's difficulty getting hired despite Yale Law degree (assumed affirmative action). Brian: Google study found they were underpaying men and overpaying women. Discussion of women's soccer equal pay lawsuit and WNBA vs. NBA pay disparity. Knowles: earnings gap is partly explained by male mating pressure to earn more.
Pixie reveals she has a non-nude OnlyFans (started ~1 year before episode). Knowles confronts her: she objects to men watching porn while producing OnlyFans content. Pixie distinguishes: male consumption affects pair bonding neurochemistry; female creation does not. Knowles: she is enticing men to the very behavior she objects to. Pixie: porn objection extends to Instagram models, Hooters, Playboy posters — not just pornography. Discussion of Christian conservative men she dated who were secretly porn addicts. Cohabitation statistics: Pixie argues against pre-marital cohabitation on statistical grounds.
Brian asks 'what is a woman?' (Matt Walsh reference). Pixie: a person who acts/is perceived as society's conception of a woman. Farha: declines to answer publicly pending more research. Knowles: mocks Farha's non-answer; argues you can't separate soul/identity from body (anti-gnostic). Farha: accidentally says 'real women' when meaning biological women, Knowles highlights this. Debate on transgender athletes in women's sports: whether hormonal adjustment creates fairness. Knowles: fairness in sports requires philosophical judgment, not just scientific comparison of averages.
Farha: principles of fairness are philosophical but informed by science/data. Jasmine: wishes for more discussion on nature vs. nurture; argues laws excluding women historically are evidence of sociological not biological causes for gender gaps. Pixie: asks Knowles to clarify his earlier claim that being a 'munch' is morally depraved. Knowles: closes with Mayflower Cigars plug and argument that pre-feminist family structure was better. Brian wraps; announces Dating Talk #133 in 45 minutes with Michael Knowles continuing.